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    Rat u Ukrajini

    Notxor

    Posts : 8095
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    Post by Notxor Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:35 pm

    Ne gledam televiziju, ali si me podsetio da pustim Radio Margherita 88,3MHz FM.


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      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Mon Jul 17, 2023 7:59 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Koliko ja vidim, jedini ostrasceni ovde ste vi slavoukrajinasi. 
    Tako je, i treba vise da nas bude a manje vas sto nemate konja i ovoj trci. Biti ostrascen u Srbiji 2023 je kao biti ostrascen 1942 u Svajcarskoj. Ne tera te svakednevnica na to da se opredelis i ostrastis, ali stvar je lepog domaceg vaspitanja biti na strani Ukrajine i takozvanog kolektivnog zapada a protiv Rusije.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Notxor

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    Post by Notxor Mon Jul 17, 2023 8:15 pm

    Ma to je skroz ok, kao Zvezda i Partizan, ima zastave, ima fore, ima pesmice... Kad si bio dete malo... Indija, Pakistan, domaće vaspitanje... neka uzmu titulu ako ih nije sramota ili tako nekako.

    Doduše, ginu neki ljudi, ali najbitnije je biti na pravoj strani pa makar te to ništa ne koštalo.



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      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:20 pm

    Nista ne kostalo? A pa ne znam, meni nikako ne bi bilo lako da pokusam da budem onako lagano ironicno distanciran od tih nemilih scena koje gledamo po Ukrajini ovih poslednjih 500 dana. Bilo bi me, pravo da ti kazem, sramota od sebe samog. Ali svakom svoje, sto bi rekle babe.


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:48 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:

     Ne tera te svakednevnica na to da se opredelis i ostrastis, ali stvar je lepog domaceg vaspitanja biti na strani Ukrajine i takozvanog kolektivnog zapada a protiv Rusije.


    Fino vaspitanje, ili to što želimo Rusiju što dalje od svoje avlije?


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:06 pm

    Nemoj mi ta dva razdvajat', to je ka' dva oka u glavi.


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:11 pm

    Летећи Полип wrote:
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:

     Ne tera te svakednevnica na to da se opredelis i ostrastis, ali stvar je lepog domaceg vaspitanja biti na strani Ukrajine i takozvanog kolektivnog zapada a protiv Rusije.


    Fino vaspitanje, ili to što želimo Rusiju što dalje od svoje avlije?

    Interes i vrednosti zaista nisu uvek u braku. Ali ovde jesu
    Јанош Винету

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    Post by Јанош Винету Mon Jul 17, 2023 10:12 pm

    +1

    Маните ме лепог васпитања.

    Једнога учили код куће да је Русија културна сила, Достојевски и шта све не, а други Растко Поцеста.

    Нема финог васпитања и морализаторства у међународној политици, само непристојно и гледајући своје интересе а они су - далеко им лепа кућа и једнима и другима.

    Швајцарска сарађивала са Хитлером, крила злато отето од убијених Јевреја, а код куће забрањивала фашистичке партије као "политичке новотарије које нису у конзервативном швајцарском духу". Идеје ништа, али зато новац и злато може. Алпски паразити су увек јако добро информисани и знају куда ветар дува.

    Најнепристојнији људи су Швајцарци, директни, безобразни, набусити, надмени, само закерају и критикују. Комбинација француског закерања и немачког планирања до најситнијих детаља спојеног са врхунским протестантским лицемерјем.

    Чак су и они рекли ћао руском капиталу, што њима не пада баш лако.


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    Burundi is an exception among other nations because it is a country which gave God first place, a God who guards and protects from all misfortune.
    Burundi... opskurno udruženje 20ak levičarskih intelektualaca, kojima je fetiš odbrana poniženih i uvredjenih.
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:42 pm

    Pušten drumski saobraćaj preko mosta, ide jednom trakom naizmenično. Deluje kao dosta veliko kockanje s bezbednošću.





    Last edited by rumbeando on Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:45 pm

    https://twitter.com/HoansSolo/status/1681240456754077697
    Franz-Stefan Gady
    @HoansSolo

    New🧵: @konrad_muzyka, @RALee85, @KofmanMichael,& I spent some time this month visiting the frontlines in Ukraine to gain new insights into the ongoing counteroffensive & the war overall. Here are some general observations.
    11:52 AM · Jul 18, 2023

    (Note: More detailed analysis will be coming out by all of us in the coming weeks.)

    First off, we spoke to NCOs, officers, a number of brigade commanders (national guard & regular army) in the field plus senior intel & defense officials in Kyiv (alongside @DAlperovitch).

    Counteroffensive:
    1.) By and large this is an infantryman’s fight (squad, platoon & company level) supported by artillery along most of the frontline. This has several implications: 1st: Progress is measured by yards/meters and not km/miles given reduced mobility.

    2nd: Mechanized formations are rarely deployed due to lack of enablers for maneuver. This includes insufficient quantities of de-mining equipment, air defenses, ATGMs etc.

    2.) Ukrainian forces have still not mastered combined arms operations at scale. Operations are more sequential than synchronized. This creates various problems for the offense & IMO is the main cause for slow progress.

    3.) 🇺🇦 forces by default have switched to a strategy of attrition relying on sequential fires rather than maneuver. This is the reason why cluster munitions are critical to extend current fire rates into the fall: weakening Russian defenses to a degree that enables maneuver.

    4.) Minefields are a problem as most observers know. They confine maneuver space & slow advances. But much more impactful than the minefields per se on Ukraine’s ability to break through Russian defenses is 🇺🇦s inability to conduct complex combined arms operations at scale.

    Lack of a comprehensive combined arms approach at scale makes Ukrainian forces more vulnerable to Russian ATGMs, artillery etc. while advancing. So it's not just about equipment. There’s simply no systematic pulling apart of the Russian defensive system that I could observe.

    5.) The character of this offensive will only likely change if there is a more systematic approach to breaking through Russian defenses, perhaps paired with or causing a severe degradation of Russian morale, that will lead to a sudden or gradual collapse of Russian defenses.

    Absent a sudden collapse of Russian defenses, I suspect this will remain a bloody attritional fight with reserve units being fed in incrementally in the coming weeks & months.

    6.) There is limited evidence of a systematic deep battle that methodically degrades Russian C2/munitions. Despite rationing on the Russian side, ammunition is available and Russians appear to have fairly good battlefield ISR coverage.

    Russians also had no need to deploy operational reserves yet to fend off Ukrainian attacks.There is also evidence of reduced impact of HIMARS strikes due to effective Russian countermeasures. (This is important to keep in mind re. any potential tac. impact of delivery of ATACMs.)

    Russian forces, even if severely degraded & lacking ammo, are likely capable of delaying, containing or repulsing individual platoon- or company-sized Ukrainian advances unless these attacks are better coordinated & synchronized along the broader frontline.

    7.) Quality of Russian forces varies. Attrition is hitting them hard but they are defending their positions well, according to Ukrainians we spoke to. They have been quite adaptable at the tactical level and are broadly defending according to Soviet/Russian doctrine.

    8.) Russian artillery rationing is real & happening. Ukraine has established fire superiority in tube artillery while Russia retains superiority in MRLSs in the South. Localized fire superiority in some calibers alone does not suffice, however, to break through Russian defenses.

    9.) An additional influx of weapons systems (e.g., ATACMs, air defense systems, MBTs, IFVs etc.) while important to sustain the war effort, will likely not have a decisive tactical impact without adaptation and more effective integration.

    Ukraine will have to better synchronize & adapt current tactics, without which western equipment will not prove tac. decisive in the long run. This is happening  but it is slow work in progress. (Most NATO-style militaries would struggle with this even more than the 🇺🇦s IMO).

    10.) The above is also true for breaching operations. Additional mine clearing equipment is needed & will be helpful (especially man-portable mine-clearing systems) but not decisive without better integration of fire & maneuver at scale.

    (Again, I cannot emphasize enough how difficult this is to pull off in wartime.)

    Monocausal explanations for failure (like lack of de-mining equipment) do not reflect reality. E.g., some Ukrainian assaults were stopped by Russian ATGMs even before reaching the 1st 🇷🇺 minefield.

    11.) There is a dearth of artillery barrels that is difficult to address given production rates and delivery timelines.

    12.) So far Ukraine’s approach in this counteroffensive has been first and foremost direct assaults on Russian positions supported by a rudimentary deep battle approach. And no, these  direct assaults are not mere probing attacks.

    13.) There is evidence of tactical cyber operations supporting closing of kinetic kill-chains. That is cyber ISR contributing to identifying & tracking targets on the battlefield. Starlink remains absolutely key for Ukrainian C2.

    14.) Quality of Ukrainian officers and NCOs we met appears excellent & morale remains high. However, there are some force quality issues emerging with less able bodied & older men called up for service now.

    15.) The narrative that Ukrainian progress thus far is slow just because of a lack of weapons deliveries and support is monocausal & is not shared by those we spoke to actually fighting & exercising command on the frontline.

    16.) It goes without saying that in a war of attrition, more artillery ammunition & hardware is always needed and needs to be steadily supplied. (Western support of Ukraine certainly should continue as there is still the prospect that the counteroffensive will make gains.)

    But soldiers fighting on the frontline we spoke to are all too aware that lack of progress is often more due to force employment, poor tactics, lack of coordination btw. units, bureaucratic red tape/infighting, Soviet style thinking etc. & ...Russians putting up stiff resistance.
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Tue Jul 18, 2023 12:54 pm

    Očekuje se da će saobraćaj obema stranama mosta (kao pre napada) biti obnovljen do 1. novembra, dok će dvosmerni saobraćaj jednom stranom mosta po trenutnim procenama biti uspostavljen do 15. septembra, rekao je vicepremijer Rusije Marat Husnulin obaveštavajući Putina o stanju mosta. Stubovi nisu oštećeni.

    https://tass.com/economy/1648147
    Tovar

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    Post by Tovar Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:30 pm

    Nije to tako loše kao što izgleda.
    avatar

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    Post by MNE Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:17 pm

    rumbeando wrote:Pušten drumski saobraćaj preko mosta, ide jednom trakom naizmenično. Deluje kao dosta veliko kockanje s bezbednošću.
    phah to što je most na nišanu ukrajinskih dronova i raketa je već dovoljno veliko kockanje
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Tue Jul 18, 2023 4:35 pm

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 22 F1QqHpAacAU8H6q?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Wed Jul 19, 2023 12:50 am


    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:26 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:

    Ne tera te svakednevnica na to da se opredelis i ostrastis, ali stvar je lepog domaceg vaspitanja biti na strani Ukrajine i takozvanog kolektivnog zapada a protiv Rusije.
    Врхстра, нови нивои лудила.

    - Зашто сте ви за неку страну у сукобу?
    - Верски
    - Национални
    - -филства свих врста
    - и на крају, због лепог васпитања  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 22 1f606 

    Свима им је заједничко да у одговору нема ни а од аргумената. Иста срања, друга паковања.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:33 pm

    Prvi full scale osvajacki rat u Evropi posle WW2.
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:11 pm

    Sotir wrote:
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:
    Врхстра, нови нивои лудила.

    - Зашто сте ви за неку страну у сукобу?
    - Верски
    - Национални
    - -филства свих врста
    - и на крају, због лепог васпитања  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 22 1f606 

    Свима им је заједничко да у одговору нема ни а од аргумената. Иста срања, друга паковања.
    Tako je. Aj sad idi u cosak i stidi se sto si glup.


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Летећи Полип

    Posts : 11663
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    Post by Летећи Полип Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:18 pm

    Mór Thököly wrote:Prvi full scale osvajacki rat u Evropi posle WW2.

    Kad ne bi bilo Kipra.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    Ferenc Puskás

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    Post by Ferenc Puskás Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:00 pm

    Mór Thököly wrote:Prvi full scale osvajacki rat u Evropi posle WW2.
    Ma ista sranja. Mislim pa jebote priznaj da si za pravu stranu istorije, a ne seri o neutralnosti i višim moralnim načelima. Svi zneutralci se useravaju na isti način kao nekad nacoši, nisam nazzi, ali... (heil Hitler!).


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    Ha rendelkezésre áll a szükséges pénz, a vége általában jó.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:08 pm

    Летећи Полип wrote:
    Mór Thököly wrote:Prvi full scale osvajacki rat u Evropi posle WW2.

    Kad ne bi bilo Kipra.
     I to je imalo neke granice i po obimu neuporedivo. Ali ok, formalno, da. Mada, tad kad se to desavalo, koliko je ljudi uopste smatralo Kipar za neku Evropu... No svejedno, i to mu vise dodje upravo kao argument da se ovde bude protiv Rusa. U društvu su sa turskom okupacijom severnog dela Kipra.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:10 pm

    Mislim, "granice" u slucaju Kipra su te da Turska nije prisajedinila delove Kipra Turskoj. Putin je prvi posle WW2 koji je formalno anektirao delove druge tj susedne zemlje. To je ogroman faul.
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Thu Jul 20, 2023 2:13 am

    Koji zneutralci uvrk previde. Krim je oduvek bio Ruski.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Thu Jul 20, 2023 8:10 am

    A to je faul koji su mu bezmalo oprostili. I nastavili da planiraju Severne tokove itd. Na koji je i 1 Bajden ukinuo sankcije u leto 2021. Samo da bi unistio Rusiju.
    kondo

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    Post by kondo Thu Jul 20, 2023 9:26 am

    eh, dobri bajden, od blata cemo ga praviti


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    #FreeFacu

    Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.

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