Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

    Rat u Ukrajini

    Notxor

    Posts : 8095
    Join date : 2020-09-07

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Notxor Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:34 pm

    fikret selimbašić wrote:
    Jesi li ikad igdje pročitao bar jedan putifistički post u kom se pominju ruske žrtve (ne računajući RIP postove za heroje SVO) i njihov smisao? Ja nisam, a zalazim na razna mjesta gdje se okupljaju. Oni žale samo Ukrajince i ponekog jadnika sa zapada.

    Notxor wrote:Neko zloban bi rekao da je cilj zapada maksimalno iscrpljivanje ljudskih i materijalnih resursa i Rusije i Ukrajine.

    Nisam putifista, ali reci da se zezaš?


    _____
      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Летећи Полип

    Posts : 11623
    Join date : 2018-03-03
    Age : 36
    Location : Hotline Rakovica

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Летећи Полип Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:37 pm

    Filipenko wrote:U ovakvim diskusijama imam inherentnu prednost jer pazljivo analiziram i objektivno zakljucim da sam u pravu, dok se vi vrtite u krugu istomisljenika, pa uvek izlazite na pogresne zakljucke. Stoga cu sacekati da se javi jos neko pre nego sto pobijem sve naopake teze koje nekriticki iznosite pred forumski auditorijum.


    Filipe, i ti si ovde pričao svašta. O Rusima koji odbacuju tehniku jer mnogo brzo napreduju, 50k najboljih ukrajinskih vojnika koji su pred opkoljavanjem itd. Pa i ono stidljivo, od pre par dana, kako je puč bila finta da se Wagner na brzinu premesti blizu Harkova.


    Last edited by Летећи Полип on Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    Notxor

    Posts : 8095
    Join date : 2020-09-07

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Notxor Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:37 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:Što ti je Crnogorac, sve zna o sahranama.

    Nisam etnograf, ali su protokoli u CG i Boki, potpuno različiti, a u nekim stvarima i suprotni do te mere da su ovi moji bili šokirani nekim običajima iz CG.


    _____
      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    fikret selimbašić

    Posts : 10404
    Join date : 2020-06-19

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by fikret selimbašić Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:40 pm

    Notxor wrote:
    fikret selimbašić wrote:
    Jesi li ikad igdje pročitao bar jedan putifistički post u kom se pominju ruske žrtve (ne računajući RIP postove za heroje SVO) i njihov smisao? Ja nisam, a zalazim na razna mjesta gdje se okupljaju. Oni žale samo Ukrajince i ponekog jadnika sa zapada.

    Notxor wrote:Neko zloban bi rekao da je cilj zapada maksimalno iscrpljivanje ljudskih i materijalnih resursa i Rusije i Ukrajine.

    Nisam putifista, ali reci da se zezaš?


    Ne zezam se uopšte, ako gdje naletiš na post pravog putifiste u kom se pita za smisao ovolikog stradanja, proslijedi link.


    _____
    Međuopštinski pustolov.

    Zli stolar.
    Notxor

    Posts : 8095
    Join date : 2020-09-07

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Notxor Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:43 pm

    Mene si citirao, pa sam mislio da na mene misliš. Nije važno.


    _____
      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Guest Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:46 pm

    Летећи Полип wrote:
    Filipenko wrote:U ovakvim diskusijama imam inherentnu prednost jer pazljivo analiziram i objektivno zakljucim da sam u pravu, dok se vi vrtite u krugu istomisljenika, pa uvek izlazite na pogresne zakljucke. Stoga cu sacekati da se javi jos neko pre nego sto pobijem sve naopake teze koje nekriticki iznosite pred forumski auditorijum.


    Filipe, i ti si ovde pričao svašta. O Rusima koji odbacuju tehniku jer mnogo brzo napreduju, 50k najboljih ukrajinskih vojnika koji su pred opkoljavanjem itd. Pa i ono stidljivo, od pre par dana, kako je puč bila finta da se Wagner na brzinu premesti blizu Harkova.
    I pisao je da je brana srušena artiljerijom!
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Filipenko Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:45 pm

    Brana verovatno i jeste srusena artiljerijom, tj. preturio se vrh brane kao posledica artiljerijskih udara kojima ste se hvalili ovde, jer to je precizni hajmars. Za Harkov nisam siguran odakle ste izvukli, ali to moze biti samo neka sprdnja s moje strane, kakav crni Harkov, nece ga valjda 25 hiljada ljudi zauzeti. Ili Kijev.

    Sto se tice ne samo Rusa, vec ovog celog rata, naravno da ovo moze da traje veoma dugo jer i Rusija i Ukrajina imaju mogucnosti da odrzavaju sukob veoma dugo dokle god se ne koristi masovno ljudstvo i/ili sredstva masovnog opstenja sa ljudstvom. Sukobe vojski od po 300-400-500 hiljada ljudi obe drzave mogu dugo da odrzavaju jer je to daleko ispod maksimalnih potencijala. Da, ginuce se dosta, ali bice odakle da se popuni. 

    Materijalna sredstva je vec teze popuniti, ali ako Nato moze da snabdeva Ukrajinu sa 500k granata iz Juzne Koreje i da u medjuvremenu 6 clanica Nato i 3 vazala (medju kojima je i Srbija) napravi jos milionce granata i mina, to takodje moze dugo da traje. Jedino resenje da se prekine krvoprolice jeste da se podigne ulog i da Rusija pocne da stiti zivote poput Amerikanaca, odnosno da baca atomske bombe koje bi joj pomogle da brze unisti ukrajinsku vojsku. Koja bi, da joj zapad ne dotura ono sto moze, odavno morala da se preda jer ne bi imala artiljerije, pvo, tenkove itd. Ili bi prosto presla na partizanski nacin borbe, pa bismo videli koliko bi u tome imali uspeha. I to nije moje misljenje, to je prosto stvar elementarne detekcije cinjenica na terenu.

    E sad, kao sto rekoh, parodicno u svemu ovome jeste sto ja ne podnosim Putina ni Sojgua, i nisam neki manijakalni rusofil, ali sam jos manje ljubitelj pentagonu lojalnih nacosa koji hoce da ratuju za Kosovo Donbas i Krim do poslednjeg Srbina Ukrajinca ako treba. To sam video od vas, forumasa, koji ste decenijama objasnjavali nase zablude koje su nas gurnule pred nisan, samo ne Rusije nego jos opakijeg neprijatelja.


    Za kraj, evo raspodele lend-lease americke pomoci u WW2, posto vidim da Fikret pominje neke revizije. Ne, revizija je ono sto se forsira sa zapada: Rusija je porobljavala i nikoga nije oslobodila, Staljin je ubijao desetine miliona kao kruske, Amerikanci su sa lakocom tukli SS, Vermaht nije ucinio nista lose ali eto Hitler je svasta radio u pozadini, Ameri su zasluzni za poraz Nemacke, SSSR bi prop'o da nije bilo Amerike. Preporucujem svima The Unknown War sa Burtom Lankasterom, tamo sovjetski marsali otvoreno pricaju o tzv. lend-lease-u i koliki je efekat imao. I naravno, gro pomoci je isporucen 1943. i 1944. nakon sto je SSSR preokrenuo tok rata u svoju korist.


    Value of materials supplied by the U.S. to its Allied nations[25][th]Country[/th][th]Millions ofUS Dollars[/th]
    Total48,395.4
    British Empire31,387.1
    Soviet Union10,982.1
    Sotir

    Posts : 8696
    Join date : 2016-10-04

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Sotir Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:04 pm



    Filipenko wrote:U ovakvim diskusijama imam inherentnu prednost jer pazljivo analiziram i objektivno zakljucim da sam u pravu, dok se vi vrtite u krugu istomisljenika, pa uvek izlazite na pogresne zakljucke. Stoga cu sacekati da se javi jos neko pre nego sto pobijem sve naopake teze koje nekriticki iznosite pred forumski auditorijum.
    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Fgkexx10
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Filipenko Fri Jun 30, 2023 11:27 pm

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 1233199462


    Ruku na srce, vise je nesto na ovu foru:


    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 7r5g70
    Nektivni Ugnelj

    Posts : 52531
    Join date : 2017-11-16

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Jul 01, 2023 12:14 am

    Pa ok, ti se ne vrtis u krugu isromisljenika, nego sam sa sobom izdogovaras da si u pravu, to je sigurno objektivnije saznanje  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 1861198401
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Filipenko Sat Jul 01, 2023 12:49 am

    Kao sto i rekoh  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 1844795956


    Ne znam da li je istina, ali navodno je danas Zaluzni dao neki intervju, sto je neobicno za njega, a i pomalo cudno buduci da je skoro dva meseca mrtav. Moram da kazem da mi ovo deluje vrlo bezvezno s njegove strane, kuka da nema opreme, kako zapadnjaci nikad ne bi krenuli napred bez vazdusne premoci, da mu vojska zato krvari. Pa prijatelju, sto si onda krenuo u ofanzivu? Ko te terao?
    Nektivni Ugnelj

    Posts : 52531
    Join date : 2017-11-16

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Jul 01, 2023 12:56 am

    Rat je (i) politika.
    Del Cap

    Posts : 7229
    Join date : 2019-11-04

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Del Cap Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:47 pm

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/30/cia-director-burns-ukraine-counteroffensive/

    CIA director, on secret trip to Ukraine, hears plan for war’s endgame

    During meetings in Kyiv, William Burns was told of Ukraine’s ambitious goal to retake territory and push Moscow into talks by the end of the year


    During a secret visit to Ukraine by CIA Director William J. Burns earlier this month, Ukrainian officials revealed an ambitious strategy to retake Russian-occupied territory and open cease-fire negotiations with Moscow by the end of the year, according to officials familiar with the visit.

    The trip by Burns, which has not been previously reported, included meetings with President Volodymyr Zelensky and Ukraine’s top intelligence officials. It came at a critical moment in the conflict as Ukrainian forces struggle to gain an early advantage in their long-awaited counteroffensive but have yet to deploy most of their Western-trained and -equipped assault brigades.

    “Director Burns recently traveled to Ukraine, as he has done regularly since the beginning of Russia’s recent aggression more than a year ago,” said a U.S. official, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the unannounced visit.

    Its purpose was to reaffirm the Biden administration’s commitment to sharing intelligence meant to help Ukraine defend itself, the official added.

    Publicly, Ukrainian officials have expressed frustration with critics of the pace at which the counteroffensive has played out thus far. But in private, military planners in Kyiv have relayed to Burns and others bullish confidence in their aim to retake substantial territory by the fall; move artillery and missile systems near the boundary line of Russian-controlled Crimea; push further into eastern Ukraine; and then open negotiations with Moscow for the first time since peace talks broke down in March of last year, according to three people familiar with the planning.

    “Russia will only negotiate if it feels threatened,” said a senior Ukrainian official.


    Whether Ukraine can deliver on those plans, on such a truncated timeline, remains to be seen. The CIA declined to comment when asked for Burns’s assessment of the offensive’s prospects.

    Burns’s trip occurred just before the aborted rebellion by Russian mercenary leader Yevgeniy Prigozhin against Russia’s defense establishment. Although the U.S. intelligence community had detected in mid-June that Prigozhin was plotting an armed assault of some kind, those findings were not discussed during the meetings with Zelensky and others, the U.S. official said.

    Biden administration officials have repeatedly emphasized that Washington and Kyiv had nothing to do with the failed march on Moscow, a rare challenge to Russian President Vladimir Putin that the United States has characterized as an internal matter.

    In an effort to reinforce that line, Burns made a phone call to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Naryshkin, after the event and underscored that the United States was not involved in any way, the Wall Street Journal reported.

    Zelensky and his military commanders, facing deeply entrenched Russian forces in occupied parts of Ukraine’s east and south, are under extraordinary pressure from the Western nations that provided Kyiv with billions of dollars in advanced weaponry and training ahead of the counteroffensive.

    Ukraine has taken heavy casualties as its troops and armored vehicles navigate thick minefields and fortified trenches across wide-open territory. The challenging terrain has left troops vulnerable to Russian airstrikes and missile attacks.

    Zelensky has acknowledged that the counteroffensive is going “slower than desired,” and officials have confirmed the destruction of some Western-provided Leopard 2 tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles.
    But Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov has dismissed skeptics, saying the “main event” is yet to come, while the country’s top military commander, Gen. Valery Zaluzhny, has called for patience, saying the offensive is being “carried out” as diligently as possible.

    “Yes, maybe not as fast as … the observers would like, but that is their problem,” Zaluzhny told The Washington Post this week.

    Military analysts say Ukraine’s goal of forcing a negotiation is ambitious given Russia’s fortified defenses, but not out of the question.

    “It’s possible they can cut off the land bridge to Crimea, either by seizing the terrain or putting it within range of HIMARS and other artillery, but much depends on the level of attrition,” said Rob Lee, a military analyst at the Foreign Policy Research Institute.

    “If Ukraine sustains too many losses, its offensive could culminate early. But if Ukraine can inflict enough losses on Russian forces and equipment, and interdict the movement of reinforcements, Ukraine may be able to weaken Moscow’s defenses enough to achieve a breakthrough,” he added.

    In preparation for the fall, Zelensky and top aides have begun thinking about how Kyiv can force an end to the fighting on terms that are acceptable to Russia and the Ukrainian people, who have been subjected to a year and a half of violence, forced displacement, atrocities, and food and electricity shortages.

    In an ideal scenario favored by Kyiv, Ukraine’s military would gain leverage over Russia by advancing troops and powerful weapons to the edge of Ukraine’s boundary with Crimea — holding hostage the peninsula that is home to Russia’s prized Black Sea Fleet.

    “If Ukraine has the capability to target additional important airfields, bridges, rail lines and logistics hubs, they can make it more difficult for Russia to sustain the war,” said Lee, the military analyst.

    In agreeing not to take Crimea by force, Kyiv would then demand that Russia accept whatever security guarantees Ukraine can secure from the West, said Ukrainian officials.

    Obtaining those guarantees, however, has been a tall order.


    The Zelensky government has pushed hard for the United States and Europe to make firm commitments on Ukraine’s accession to NATO and the European Union — but the U.S. and Western European governments remain cold to the idea, more interested in offering pledges of long-term security assistance instead of the expansion of NATO, which risks a direct conflict with Russia.

    The hesitance has frustrated Poland and the Baltic states, NATO member countries that are looking ahead to next month’s NATO summit in Lithuania, where Secretary of State Antony Blinken and other Western leaders have said they intend to provide a “very robust package” to Ukraine. Strong disagreements over the contents of the package threaten to project an image of disunity at the gathering.

    But while U.S. and Ukrainian officials differ on the topic of NATO membership, they say there is broad agreement on Kyiv’s aims for the offensive.

    “The U.S. agrees that Ukraine should enter the negotiations from a strong position,” said a senior Ukrainian official. “The U.S. is satisfied that our command does not do anything stupid, it keeps soldiers and equipment. The support is strong, and it makes our motivation higher.”

    Still, signs of stress are abundant. While U.S. military leaders want to see Ukraine accelerate its offensive, Zaluzhny has begun venting that the West has not sent ammunition and fighter jets to the battlefield fast enough.

    It “pisses me off,” Zaluzhny said, in response to complaints that the counteroffensive hasn’t progressed quickly.

    White House spokesman John Kirby on Friday sympathized with Ukrainian complaints about weaponry, saying, “You can hardly blame them for talking to the world about additional support, whether that’s in quantity or quality of capabilities.”

    He denied, however, that Washington would play the role of “armchair quarterback” from the sidelines.
    “Where they go and how fast they go,” Kirby said, “that’s really going to be up to them to decide.”

    Ukraine’s cautious approach in the opening days of the offensive is a sign of the challenge that lies ahead, analysts say.

    “The problem is that Russia has emplaced a large number of mines, both in front of and behind the main defensive line,” said Lee. “Even if Ukraine can achieve a breakthrough, it will still take time to exploit. It may take weeks, it may take months.”
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Filipenko Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:54 pm

    Nista meni ovde nije jasno, osim ako prosto Amerika ovako ne pusta buvu da se polako razmislja o endgame-u za kraj ove godine.
    fikret selimbašić

    Posts : 10404
    Join date : 2020-06-19

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by fikret selimbašić Sat Jul 01, 2023 6:57 pm

    Filipenko wrote:.


    Za kraj, evo raspodele lend-lease americke pomoci u WW2, posto vidim da Fikret pominje neke revizije. Ne, revizija je ono sto se forsira sa zapada: Rusija je porobljavala i nikoga nije oslobodila, Staljin je ubijao desetine miliona kao kruske, Amerikanci su sa lakocom tukli SS, Vermaht nije ucinio nista lose ali eto Hitler je svasta radio u pozadini, Ameri su zasluzni za poraz Nemacke, SSSR bi prop'o da nije bilo Amerike. Preporucujem svima The Unknown War sa Burtom Lankasterom, tamo sovjetski marsali otvoreno pricaju o tzv. lend-lease-u i koliki je efekat imao. I naravno, gro pomoci je isporucen 1943. i 1944. nakon sto je SSSR preokrenuo tok rata u svoju korist.


    Value of materials supplied by the U.S. to its Allied nations[25]
















    [th]Country[/th][th]Millions ofUS Dollars[/th]
    Total48,395.4
    British Empire31,387.1
    Soviet Union10,982.1

    Hrana, Filipe, hrana. Prehrambeni dio CCCP je bio pod okupacijom, Ukrajina, Bjelorusija, dijelovi južne Rusije. Nije beskorisno bilo ni blizu 400K raznih vozila, brda sanitetskog materjala, tekstil, dugmad. Pobjeda nad nacizmom je zajednički napor saveznika. Boldovano i tvoja priča o skoro nebitnoj ulozi saveznika i njihovoj pomoći CCCP-u je isto.


    _____
    Međuopštinski pustolov.

    Zli stolar.
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Guest Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:01 pm

    +1 svaki put kad se izvrši takva revizija istorije, Hitleru zaigra brk u paklu
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Filipenko Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:24 pm

    Dobro, ako su onda neproporcionalno slali hranu u SSSR a onda verovatno neproporcionalno vise celika i municije u Veliku Britaniju (ukupno 3x vise svega, izrazeno u dolarima), opet ostaje pitanje sto onda Britanci nisu predvodili pobedu u ratu.

    Da je pobeda bila zajednicka, to niko ne spori. Da su Sovjeti okrenuli tok rata i dobili najbitnije bitke dok im jos nisu slali nista i dok strateska avijacija SAD nije krenula da ravna nemacke gradove, takodje je tacno, ali sve ove price su ionako u funkciji dokazivanja kako je zapravo USA najzasluznija za kraj Hitlera, sto je inace i jedna od holivudskih misija. Tome sluze i price o sporazumu Ribentrop - Molotov, za koji se oduvek znalo, ali su mu odskora dali narativ da je sporazum o nenapadanju u stvari savez (iako ja ne videh sovjetsku armiju u bitkama u Francuskoj i za Britaniju na nemackoj strani), tome sluze price da su nacional-socijalisti zapravo socijalisti, pa je sukob na istoku bio obracun maltene istomisljenika, tome sluze price o tome kako je Crvena Armija, oh strahote, presla preko sirotih nemackih saveznika na istoku pa ih okupirala umesto da stane na svojim granicama, tome sluze price o tome kako je "Hitler ubio 6 miliona", ignorisuci koliko je pobio na istoku, sto se onda po nekom laznom sistemu odgovornosti pripisuje Staljinu da bi se uz 25 miliona Sovjeta koje je pobio Hitler doslo do preko 30 miliona "koje je Staljin ubio". Prica o lend-lease-u je samo deo toga. Smanjiti i po mogucstvu potpuno eliminisati zasluge SSSR-a, maksimizovati zasluge USA.


    Sve je ovome podredjeno (pitanje je anketa ko je najzasluzniji za pobedu u WW2 i dat izbor izmedju SSSR, USA i Velike Bretanje):


    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Tb2GiPKHT9MyERRw_OLpJIYZpiSoi797bTbQcfQq0N0


    Last edited by Filipenko on Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:34 pm; edited 4 times in total
    паће

    Posts : 41623
    Join date : 2012-02-12
    Location : wife privilege

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by паће Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:31 pm

    Јесу ли се битке добро браниле па су зато постале значајне? Како би изгледала историја да је нека битка победила Црвену армију?


    _____
       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    Nektivni Ugnelj

    Posts : 52531
    Join date : 2017-11-16

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Jul 01, 2023 8:46 pm

    Mogli bismo zamisliti da je rat po naci Nemacku isao bolje na istocnom frontu, da bi rat trajao nesto duze, a da nije iskljuceno i da bi Berlin video atomsku bombu. Mada, realno, ko zna.
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Filipenko Sat Jul 01, 2023 10:12 pm

    Ni to nije sporno, sigurno bi rat duze trajao, a npr. 1945. bismo imali linije, recimo, s pocetka 1944. godine. Vrlo je moguce da bi 1945. jedna atomka zavrsila u Nemackoj, posto se saveznici ne bi usudili da se iskrcavaju protiv jace nemacke odbrane, ili bi pak invazija daleko slabije prosla. Ne zaboravimo da se milioni americkih i britanskih vojnika u sustini nisu suocili sa vise od 300 hiljada Nemaca, bilo u Italiji, bilo u Francuskoj.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

    Posts : 52531
    Join date : 2017-11-16

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Jul 01, 2023 11:00 pm

    Trajalo bi sve to duze, to je sigurno.
    Летећи Полип

    Posts : 11623
    Join date : 2018-03-03
    Age : 36
    Location : Hotline Rakovica

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Летећи Полип Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:41 am

    Pitanje je koliko još vremena bi evropska ekonomija izdržala nemačku okupaciju. Francuska poljoprivreda se strmeknula 50% za vreme okupacije.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    Nektivni Ugnelj

    Posts : 52531
    Join date : 2017-11-16

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sun Jul 02, 2023 9:59 am

    Pa to je onda minus za Nemce, ne za saveznike. Poljoprivreda u Indijani ne bi trpela Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 1399639816
    boomer crook

    Posts : 37657
    Join date : 2014-10-27

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by boomer crook Sun Jul 02, 2023 10:41 am

    da splitujemo ovo na neki revizionizam?


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Летећи Полип

    Posts : 11623
    Join date : 2018-03-03
    Age : 36
    Location : Hotline Rakovica

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Летећи Полип Sun Jul 02, 2023 11:43 am

    Mór Thököly wrote:Pa to je onda minus za Nemce, ne za saveznike. Poljoprivreda u Indijani ne bi trpela Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 1399639816

    Ok to. Samo sam hteo da, pored sovjetskog i savezničkog, dodam i nemački/fašistički doprinos sopstvenoj propasti.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 8 Empty Re: Rat u Ukrajini

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Nov 15, 2024 2:33 am