Rat u Ukrajini

Filipenko wrote:


Svasta, ja ni ne koristim telegram niti pratim ruske baljezgarije, a kamoli da se lozim na njih. Posebno ne verujem u taj narativ da su ruskojezicni Ukrajinci mnogo ludi  Samo konstatujem da praksa i podaci govore da nisu mnogo ludi ni za Ukrajincima. Meni deluje da je to kao i manje-vise u svim ratovima - 10% je zaludjeno za Ukrajinu, 10% za majku Rusiju, a 80% su manje-vise neutralni i gibaju se.

Jesu izlozeni propagandi, i nema sumnje da trenutno mrze Ruse, ali budu li Rusi samleli njihovu vojsku - koje nema puno - i usli u gradove sumnjam da ce se desavati neki velili otpori.

Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:

Filipenko wrote:


Svasta, ja ni ne koristim telegram niti pratim ruske baljezgarije, a kamoli da se lozim na njih. Posebno ne verujem u taj narativ da su ruskojezicni Ukrajinci mnogo ludi  Samo konstatujem da praksa i podaci govore da nisu mnogo ludi ni za Ukrajincima. Meni deluje da je to kao i manje-vise u svim ratovima - 10% je zaludjeno za Ukrajinu, 10% za majku Rusiju, a 80% su manje-vise neutralni i gibaju se.

Jesu izlozeni propagandi, i nema sumnje da trenutno mrze Ruse, ali budu li Rusi samleli njihovu vojsku - koje nema puno - i usli u gradove sumnjam da ce se desavati neki velili otpori.

Manje vise u svim ratovima, LOL. Jel tako bilo i 1999? 10 posto ovih, 10 posto onih a 80% neutralno, svejedno im ko ce da pobedi?

Bold: nije bilo otpora ni u Vukovaru posle novembra 1991, iz istog razloga sto ga nema sad u Marioupolju. devedeset posto ljudi pobegne od granatiranja, grad postane gomila cigala, i onda zakljucis da nema otpora zato sto je narod nonsalantan ko je na vlasti..

Filipenko wrote:

Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:
Manje vise u svim ratovima, LOL. Jel tako bilo i 1999? 10 posto ovih, 10 posto onih a 80% neutralno, svejedno im ko ce da pobedi?

Bold: nije bilo otpora ni u Vukovaru posle novembra 1991, iz istog razloga sto ga nema sad u Marioupolju. devedeset posto ljudi pobegne od granatiranja, grad postane gomila cigala, i onda zakljucis da nema otpora zato sto je narod nonsalantan ko je na vlasti..

1999. nije sasvim uporediva jer je dosla strana okupaciona sila koja nije imala veze sa ovim prostorima. Ipak, i dalje analogija vazi. I takva zlocinacka soldateska je ovde imala 10-ak posto pristalica, a vecina je gledala kako da sacuva zive glave i ko zna cega bismo se nagledali da je krenula kopnena invazija. Procenat onih koji bi bili spremni da se bore bi bio veci od 10%, ali svakako bi i dalje najveci broj ljudi gledao svoja posla i pokusavao da prezivi. Osim ako cemo da se lazemo.

Sto se tice otpora u Vukovaru/Mariupolju, vi se fokusirate na gusto naseljena mesta. Pre svega, ne znam da li je tacno da je to slicno, jer Rusi kazu da oko 200k stanovnika i dalje zivi u Mariupolju, a svakako ne bih poredio sudbine jednog pobunjenickog legla i grada koji je pod napadom ruske vojske. Ipak, greska je u samom startu - fokus na gusto urbana podrucja. Kamo djerila u ruralnim predelima? Zasto nema organizovanog otpora u mestima koja nisu pod stegom ruske vojske? U Hersonu je recimo ruska vojska, covek bi ocekivao da u silnim mestima po hersonskoj oblasti vrvi od djerilskih aktivnost.

Filipenko wrote:

Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:
Manje vise u svim ratovima, LOL. Jel tako bilo i 1999? 10 posto ovih, 10 posto onih a 80% neutralno, svejedno im ko ce da pobedi?

Bold: nije bilo otpora ni u Vukovaru posle novembra 1991, iz istog razloga sto ga nema sad u Marioupolju. devedeset posto ljudi pobegne od granatiranja, grad postane gomila cigala, i onda zakljucis da nema otpora zato sto je narod nonsalantan ko je na vlasti..

1999. nije sasvim uporediva jer je dosla strana okupaciona sila koja nije imala veze sa ovim prostorima. Ipak, i dalje analogija vazi. I takva zlocinacka soldateska je ovde imala 10-ak posto pristalica, a vecina je gledala kako da sacuva zive glave i ko zna cega bismo se nagledali da je krenula kopnena invazija. Procenat onih koji bi bili spremni da se bore bi bio veci od 10%, ali svakako bi i dalje najveci broj ljudi gledao svoja posla i pokusavao da prezivi. Osim ako cemo da se lazemo.

Sto se tice otpora u Vukovaru/Mariupolju, vi se fokusirate na gusto naseljena mesta. Pre svega, ne znam da li je tacno da je to slicno, jer Rusi kazu da oko 200k stanovnika i dalje zivi u Mariupolju, a svakako ne bih poredio sudbine jednog pobunjenickog legla i grada koji je pod napadom ruske vojske. Ipak, greska je u samom startu - fokus na gusto urbana podrucja. Kamo djerila u ruralnim predelima? Zasto nema organizovanog otpora u mestima koja nisu pod stegom ruske vojske? U Hersonu je recimo ruska vojska, covek bi ocekivao da u silnim mestima po hersonskoj oblasti vrvi od djerilskih aktivnosti.

Al kao sto rekoh, uopste ne sporim da mrze Ruse koji ubijaju njihove sunarodnike i njihovu zemlju. Imajte samo u vidu da definitivno postoji dobar deo stanovnika koji to ne dozivljava na isti nacin (ne smatraju da su im Ukrajinci sunarodnici niti da je to ukrajinska zemlja, a zive na tim teritorijama) i da dugorocno uopste nije garantovano da ce se stanovnistvo koje trenutno mrzi Ruse tako osecati, posebno ako bude efikasne obnove i posebno ukoliko zrtve ne budu ogromne, a ovo je takav rat da se ratuje sa malo vojnika, tako da nece svakoj ukrajinskoj porodici stizati kovceg sa ostacima najmilijih. Samo to zelim da kazem. E sad, ako se dugorocno budu mrzeli, pa sta. Ni mene nije previse briga da li Sandzaklije mrze Srbe mnogo ili malo, ali im svakako treba nametnuti placanje poreza, ostro kaznjavati svaki antidrzavni istup i to je sve.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

We’re almost out of ammunition and relying on western arms, says Ukraine
Exclusive: Deputy head of military intelligence says it’s an artillery war now and ‘everything depends on what the west gives us’

Isobel Koshiw in Kyiv
Fri 10 Jun 2022 05.00 BST

Ukraine’s deputy head of military intelligence has said Ukraine is losing against Russia on the frontlines and is now almost solely reliant on weapons from the west to keep Russia at bay.

“This is an artillery war now,” said Vadym Skibitsky, deputy head of Ukraine’s military intelligence. The frontlines were now where the future would be decided, he told the Guardian, “and we are losing in terms of artillery”.

“Everything now depends on what [the west] gives us,” said Skibitsky. “Ukraine has one artillery piece to 10 to 15 Russian artillery pieces. Our western partners have given us about 10% of what they have.”

Ukraine is using 5,000 to 6,000 artillery rounds a day, according to Skibitsky. “We have almost used up all of our [artillery] ammunition and are now using 155-calibre Nato standard shells,” he said of the ammunition that is fired from artillery pieces.

“Europe is also delivering lower-calibre shells but as Europe runs out, the amount is getting smaller.”

The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said last week that between 60 and 100 Ukrainian soldiers were dying each day and a further 500 were being injured. Ukraine has kept the total number of its military losses secret.

Soldiers speaking to the Guardian from Ukraine’s frontlines this week painted a similar picture.

Skibitsky emphasised the need for the west to supply Ukraine with long-range rocket systems to destroy the Russian artillery pieces from afar. This week the Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych told the Guardian that Ukraine needed 60 multiple-rocket launchers – many more than the handful promised so far by the UK and US – to have a chance of defeating Russia.

Ukraine is set to ask the west for a list of weapons and defensive equipment at the contact group meeting with Nato in Brussels on 15 June.

Skibitsky thinks the conflict will remain predominantly an artillery war in the near future and the number of rocket attacks – which can be launched from Russia and have hit civilians – will remain at their current rate.

In the first month, Russia was constantly striking Ukraine with rockets but in the last two months it has slowed. Recent figures published by the head of Ukraine’s armed forces assert that Russia launches between 10 and 14 a day.

Rockets are expensive to manufacture. Each rocket can cost anywhere between a few hundred thousand dollars to several million.

“We have noticed that Russia is carrying out far fewer rocket attacks and it has used H-22 rockets; they are old 1970s Soviet rockets,” said Skibitsky. “This shows that Russia is running low on rockets.”

Skibitsky said Russia was unable to produce rockets quickly because of the sanctions and that it had used around 60% of its supplies.

The sound of sirens has become a daily feature for Ukrainians. Sirens regularly sound in multiple regions simultaneously but most of the time, for people on the ground, it passes without a bang. According to Skibitsky, each siren signals a rocket has entered Ukrainian airspace but its impact is not always reported for security reasons.

“The rockets take anywhere from 40 to 90 minutes to impact, depending on where they are launched from … We don’t know where they are going to land,” said Skibitsky. He noted that Russia was currently using long-range bombers which can reach anywhere in Ukraine without leaving Russian airspace.

In terms of the three frontlines, Skibitsky said most of Russia’s forces were now concentrated in the Donbas region and seeking to occupy the administrative borders of both the Donetsk and Luhansk republics. This was the area, he said, where the artillery battles were the heaviest.

In north-east Ukraine, around Kharkiv, he said Russian forces were focusing on defence after Ukraine’s counteroffensive pushed them out of several towns and villages in the region in May.

“The threat to Kharkiv has lessened,” said Skibitsky, of Ukraine’s second-biggest city, which has been shelled regularly since the beginning of the war.

Lastly, in Zaporizhzhia and Kherson, two southern Ukrainian regions that Russia almost completely occupies, Russian forces were digging in for the long haul, said Skibitsky. According to him, they are building double, sometimes triple, lines of defence.

“It will now be harder to get that territory back,” said Skibitsky. “And that’s why we need to weapons.”

“If they succeed in the Donbas, they could use these territories to launch another attack on Odesa, [the city of] Zaporizhzhia [and] Dnipro,” said Skibitsky of major cities under Ukrainian control which are in close proximity to the southern Russian-occupied areas. “Their aim is the whole of Ukraine and more.”

Ukraine’s military intelligence believes that Russia can continue at its current rate without manufacturing more weapons or mobilising the population for another year.

Skibitsky does not exclude the possibility that Russia will freeze the war for a period of time in order to convince the west to lift sanctions. “But then they will start it again – look at the last eight years,” he added.

Mór Thököly wrote:Čoveče, njima je Džordž Buš stariji preporučivao da se ne otcepljuju uopšte 1990te zbog nuklearki. A onda je bilo - ok, bar predajte nuklearke, evo mi "garantujemo" (neobavezujuće). I mi sad pričamo o tome kako je Amerika zajebala Ruse nešto.

Mór Thököly wrote:Pazi, kolko ja znam oni, realno, manje-vise, nisu radili nista kad se sve sabere ioduzme, mada tu je Del Cap bolji.

fikret selimbašić wrote:

Mór Thököly wrote:Pazi, kolko ja znam oni, realno, manje-vise, nisu radili nista kad se sve sabere ioduzme, mada tu je Del Cap bolji.

Del cap je već kačio neke materijale vezane za tu temu, koliko se sjećam, USA za raspad nije bila posebno zagrijana čak ni kad su prvi bratstvojednistveni meci već biii ispaljeni.

A izjava i ponašanja Cimermana se i ja sjećam.

Јанош Винету wrote:Зато Немци јесу...
Приче за малу децу, добар пандур Америка лош пандур Немачка. 
Југославија не би постојала да није било америчке политичке, економске и војне помоћи.