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    Topik za prave levicare

    disident

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    Post by disident Tue 08 Nov 2016, 18:54

    zastitnik gotama wrote:dap i svi moji botuju za Hilari vec mesecima ...otvorih danas fejs i gomila marketing kurajbera je serovala : "don't forget there's a fascist on the ballot"


    imam da im porucim sledece :

    Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 14915583_1931188373775465_2168740590464553981_n
    Amaterski moj mali ucenice, bihol

    Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 NCYbmnO


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    Što se ostaloga tiče, smatram da Zapad treba razoriti
    Jedini proleter Burundija
    Pristalica krvne osvete
    plachkica

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    Post by plachkica Tue 08 Nov 2016, 18:56

    Kako je mačak?
    disident

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    Post by disident Tue 08 Nov 2016, 18:58

    Dobro je Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 1143415371 , treba u cetvrtak poslepodne da ga donesem kuci, pa cu onda javiti detaljnije i okaciti neku fotku, eventualno ce mi trebati savet sta i kako adaptirati, jer pre nikad nije bio u kuci 24h non stop


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    Što se ostaloga tiče, smatram da Zapad treba razoriti
    Jedini proleter Burundija
    Pristalica krvne osvete
    plachkica

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    Post by plachkica Tue 08 Nov 2016, 19:00

    Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 4101625831
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Thu 10 Nov 2016, 00:28

    Jel ziva Tulsi Gabard?
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu 10 Nov 2016, 00:31

    Živa i reizabrana.

    The Latest: Gabbard re-elected to US House
    The Associated Press
    The Latest on the U.S. House races in Hawaii (all times local):
    9 p.m.
    U.S. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard has been re-elected to her seat in the U. S. House of Representatives.
    Gabbard defeated Angela Aulani Kaaihue (KY'-hoo-ee), who ran as a Republican in the race in Hawaii's 2nd Congressional District.
    Gabbard was elected to the U.S. House in 2012. She was one of the first female combat veterans to serve in Congress, after deploying to Iraq and Kuwait.
    Gabbard served in the Hawaii state Legislature in 2002. She joined the Hawaii Army National Guard a year later.
    Gabbard resigned as vice chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee to support U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders during his presidential campaign.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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    Post by Guest Thu 10 Nov 2016, 00:37

    Hteo sam da je pustim unutra. Narocito zbog onog u Vikiliksu. Trenutno obavljam bezbednosnu proveru, da vidim da li je ok. Poziva na glasanje, ali ambvalentno. Nigde ne pominje Hilari.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu 10 Nov 2016, 10:10

    E, Pržune, setih se sad da je ovde bio jedan forumaš koji svojevremeno kačio mnogo dobre Orvelove odlomke o tzv levičarenju, pa ću ih ovde kopirati jer mi se čine bitnim za temu. Dodao sam i muzičku pratnju.

    The first thing that must strike any outside observer is that Socialism in its developed form is a theory confined entirely to the middle class. The typical Socialist is not, as tremulous old ladies imagine, a ferocious-looking working-man with greasy overalls and a raucous voice. He is either a youthful snob-Bolshevik who in five years’ time will quite probably have made a wealthy marriage and been converted to Roman Catholicism; or, still more typically, a prim little man with a white-collar job, usually a secret teetotaler and often with vegetarian leanings, with a history of Nonconformity behind him, and, above all, with a social position which he has no intention of forfeiting. This last type is surprisingly common in Socialist parties of every shade; it has perhaps been taken over from the old Liberal Party. In addition to this there is the horrible – the really disquieting – prevalence of cranks wherever Socialists are gathered together. One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words ‘Socialism’ and ‘Communism’ draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac Quaker, ‘Nature Cure’ quack, pacifist and feminist in England.



    The fact is that Socialism, _in the form in which it is now presented_,
    appeals chiefly to unsatisfactory or even inhuman types. On the one hand
    you have the warm-hearted un-thinking Socialist, the typical
    working-class Socialist, who only wants to abolish poverty and does not
    always grasp what this implies. On the other hand, you have the
    intellectual, book-trained Socialist, who understands that it is
    necessary to throw our present civilization down the sink and is quite
    willing to do so. And this type is drawn, to begin with, entirely from
    the middle class, and from a rootless town-bred section of the middle
    class at that. Still more unfortunately, it includes--so much so that to
    an outsider it even appears to be composed of--the kind of people I have
    been discussing; the foaming denouncers of the bourgeoisie, and the
    more-water-in-your-beer reformers of whom Shaw is the prototype, and the
    astute young social-literary climbers who are Communists now, as they
    will be Fascists five years hence, because it is all the go, and all
    that dreary tribe of high-minded' women and sandal-wearers and bearded
    fruit-juice drinkers who come nocking towards the smell of 'progress'
    like bluebottles to a dead cat. The ordinary decent person, who is in
    sympathy with the _essential_ aims of Socialism, is given the impression
    that there is no room for his kind in any Socialist party that means
    business. Worse, he is driven to the cynical conclusion that Socialism
    is a kind of doom which is probably coming but must be staved off as
    long as possible.
    Of course, as I have suggested already, it is not
    strictly fair to judge a movement by its adherents; but the point is
    that people invariably do so, and that the popular conception of
    Socialism is coloured by the conception of a Socialist as a dull or
    disagreeable person. 'Socialism' is pictured as a state of affairs in
    which our more vocal Socialists would feel thoroughly at home. This does
    great harm to the cause. The ordinary man may not flinch from a
    dictatorship of the proletariat, if you offer it tactfully; offer him a
    dictatorship of the prigs, and he gets ready to fight.





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    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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    Post by Guest Thu 10 Nov 2016, 11:59

    Ono sto meni nije jasno jeste otkud toliki odboj medju tzv. progresivnima prema Dzil Stajn. Zena je Berni+, ali iz nekog razloga se na nju posmatra kao da je jos nize od Trampa.  Zapravo, i pored sve mrznje prema njemu, Tramp se ipak uzima za ozbiljno. A na Dzil se gleda kao da je neki ludak. Na keca se diskvalifikuje u svakom razgovoru.

    Zapravo, imam ja teoriju i tome, ali me mrzi da pisem posto sam umoran da razotkrivam levoliberalsko licemerje. Barem danas. Mesto toga, evo jedan masan meme:



    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu 10 Nov 2016, 12:02

    Ja nisam rekao ništa od toga, niti mislim išta od toga. Nisam diskvalifikovao Džil ni u jednom razgovoru.

    Ajde malo manje učitavanja, ako je ikako moguće.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Thu 10 Nov 2016, 12:09

    Ok, eto izvini.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu 10 Nov 2016, 12:26

    Ma nije problem, šalim se ja malo sa ovim, ja stvarno nemam nikakav problem sa Džil Stajn, a još manje sa Kornelo Vestom. Samo oni su ti upravo primer ove vrste levice o kojoj govori Orvel u onim odlomcima (ako se sećaš, ja sam tada rekao da ja nemam problem sa takvom levicom, i da je ona takođe neophodan deo levice, kako god utopijska bila). Problem je samo u ovome - ta vrsta levičarenja nužno rizikuje da bude na margini, bez ikakvog načina da to promeni. Oni nisu nasilni, nisu revolucionarna grupa, samo su idealisti. To je okej, ali onda je rizik da se pretvore u knitting circle. Hoću reći, mislim da tu ne treba tražiti šansu za oživljavanje levice u US. DObro je što postoje, ali od njih neće početi ništa. Jedini način na koji može da počne je kroz popular movement koji je povezan sa nekim preokretom u Demokratskoj stranci. Oni mogu da budu deo tog pokreta, ali on ne može da počne od njih.

    Mislim da su oni malo oboleli od one boljke levičarenja - s kojom nemam problem u načelu, ali je potrebno videti je kao to što jeste. Mislim, Berni je uradio mnogo više za mogući preporod američke levice u prajmarijima koje je izgubio, nego Stajn godinama propovedanja sa margine. Mislim da ovaj purizam - prava levica je ona koja nema nikakvog dodira sa mejnstrimom, ili u ovom slučaju, koja nikad nije nije imala nikakvog dodira sa Hilari - pogrešan, Lako je biti radikalan za svoj groš. Nađemo se, malo sanjamo o svetskoj revoluciji, okupimo se ponekad, malo protestujemo, a posle nazad u svoje buržoaske živote. Politika je ipak nešto drugo.

    Da se podsetimo klasika

    It is therefore understandable why the attacks made by the German Lefts against the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Germany for entertaining the idea of a bloc with the Independents (the Independent Social-Democratic Party of Germany—the Kautskyites) are absolutely inane, in our opinion, and clear proof that the “Lefts” are in the wrong. In Russia, too, there were Right Mensheviks (participants in the Kerensky government), who corresponded to the German Scheidemanns, and Left Mensheviks (Martov), corresponding to the German Kautskyites and standing in opposition to the Right Mensheviks. A gradual shift of the worker masses from the Mensheviks over to the Bolsheviks was to be clearly seen in 1917. At the First All-Russia Congress of Soviets, held in June 1917, we had only 13 per cent of the votes; the Socialist-Revolutionaries and the Mensheviks had a majority. At the Second Congress of Soviets (October 25, 1917, old style) we had 51 per cent of the votes. Why is it that in Germany the same and absolutely identical shift of the workers from Right to Left did not immediately strengthen the Communists, but first strengthened the midway Independent Party, although the latter never had independent political ideas or an independent policy, but merely wavered between the Scheidemanns and the Communists?
    One of the evident reasons was the erroneous tactics of the German Communists, who must fearlessly and honestly admit this error and learn to rectify it. The error consisted in their denial of the need to take part in the reactionary bourgeois parliaments and in the reactionary trade unions; the error consisted in numerous manifestations of that “Left-wing” infantile disorder which has now come to the surface and will consequently be cured the more thoroughly, the more rapidly and with greater advantage to the organism.
    The German Independent Social-Democratic Party is obviously not a homogeneous body. Alongside the old opportunist leaders (Kautsky, Hilferding and apparently, to a considerable extent, Crispien, Ledebour and others)—these have revealed their inability to understand the significance of Soviet power and the dictatorship of the proletariat, and their inability to lead the proletariat’s revolutionary struggle—there has emerged in this party a Left and proletarian wing, which is growing most rapidly. Hundreds of thousands of members of this party (which has, I think, a membership of some three-quarters of a million) are proletarians who are abandoning Scheidemann and are rapidly going over to communism. This proletarian wing has already proposed—at the Leipzig Congress of the Independents (1919)—immediate and unconditional affiliation to the Third International. To fear a “compromise” with this wing of the party is positively ridiculous. On the contrary, it is the duty of Communists to seek and find a suitable form of compromise with them, a compromise which, on the one hand, will facilitate and accelerate the necessary complete fusion with this wing and, on the other, will in no way hamper the Communists in their ideological and political struggle against the opportunist Right wing of the Independents. It will probably be no easy matter to devise a suitable form of compromise—but only a charlatan could promise the German workers and the German Communists an “easy” road to victory.
    https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/ch08.htm


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    zvezda je zivot

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    Post by zvezda je zivot Thu 10 Nov 2016, 14:59

    By contrast, Jill Stein and Greens typically proceed from a quite different view of electoral politics, one that has much more in common with bearing witness or taking a personal stand on principle than with seeing it as an essentially instrumental activity. The Greens’ approach generally, and Stein has shown that she is no exception, is that all that is necessary to make a substantial electoral impact is to have a strong and coherent progressive program and to lay it out in public. That view is fundamentally anti-political; it seeks to provide voters an opportunity to be righteous rather than to try to build deep alliances or even short-term coalitions. It’s naïve in the sense that its notion of organizing support reduces in effect to saying “It’s simple: if we all would just…” without stopping to consider why the simple solutions haven’t already been adopted. This is a politics that appeals to the technicistic inclinations of the professional-managerial strata, a politics, that is, in which class and other contradictions and their entailments disappear into what seems to be the universally smart program, and it has little prospect for reaching more broadly into the society. And Stein and her followers have demonstrated that this sort of politics is tone-deaf to what a Trump victory would mean, the many ways it could seriously deepen the hole we are already in. I get the point that Clinton and Trump are both evil, but voting isn’t about determining who goes to Heaven or choosing between good people and bad people. Indeed, that personalistic, ultimately soap-operatic take on electoral politics is what set so many people up to be suckered by Obama. (And does anyone really believe that a President Trump, who routinely spews multiple, contradictory lies in a single compound sentence, would actually block the Trans Pacific Partnership or retract the imperialist war machine?)

    Only if one accepts, as many Greens do, a civics-text version of democracy in which it is the actions of free-agent citizens that determine the political agenda is it possible to assume that individual electoral statements can have any impact on the drift of lesser evil politics. An analogy with environmentalism may sharpen this distinction. My scrupulous attention to closing the refrigerator door or turning off lights whenever I leave a room may permit me to feel righteous in my commitment to curtail environmental degradation. They have absolutely no substantive impact on the phenomenon, however. Worse, as Andrew Szasz has argued forcefully in Shopping Our Way to Safety, my righteous behavior, especially if I convince others to adopt it, can fuel the dangerous illusion that I am doing something meaningful and relax my sense of urgency to demand structural reform.


    o kornelu vestu, poznati tekst: what are the drums saying, cornel?


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    ova zemlja to je to
    avatar
    Korisnik
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    Post by ontheotherhand Fri 11 Nov 2016, 07:40

    Može linak za taj stari Orvelov topičić?
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    Post by Guest Sat 12 Nov 2016, 13:53

    plachkica

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    Post by plachkica Sat 12 Nov 2016, 13:56

    Pa pazi, Vesna Pešić je skoro napisala na tviteru da su komunisti krivi za dolazak Hitlera.
    Ima smisla.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Sat 12 Nov 2016, 16:15

    Odlican Dor.

    Potpuna je bemislica krivitu Dzil i njene glasace. Ako ste hteli njihove glasove, morali ste nesto da im date. Ne mozes da kenjas o no fly zone i da ocekujes glasove pacifista. Pritom, kao sto je Dor objasnio, mnogo veci problem za Hilari su bili apstinenti.

    Ovo su sve Teofilizmi. (Medou i ekipa)


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Daï Djakman Faré

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    Post by Daï Djakman Faré Sat 12 Nov 2016, 20:37

    Pržun wrote:
    4:32 Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 3579118792


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    i would like to talk here about The Last of Us on HBO... and yeah, yeah i know.. the world is burning but lets just all sit and talk about television. again - what else are we doing with ourselves ? we are not creating any militias. but my god we still have the content. appraising content is the american modus vivendi.. that's why we are here for. to absorb the content and then render some sort of a judgment on content. because there is a buried hope that if enough people have the right opinion about the content - the content will get better which will then flow to our structures and make the world a better place
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sun 13 Nov 2016, 19:05

    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Tue 15 Nov 2016, 17:38

    Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 CxUOuYiUsAQbG66


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Mon 28 Nov 2016, 19:09

    Daï Djakman Faré

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    Post by Daï Djakman Faré Mon 28 Nov 2016, 20:36

    super je ovde kako se razvija dzimijev bes iz minuta u minut Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 1233199462

    odlicna monodramaturgija.


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    i would like to talk here about The Last of Us on HBO... and yeah, yeah i know.. the world is burning but lets just all sit and talk about television. again - what else are we doing with ourselves ? we are not creating any militias. but my god we still have the content. appraising content is the american modus vivendi.. that's why we are here for. to absorb the content and then render some sort of a judgment on content. because there is a buried hope that if enough people have the right opinion about the content - the content will get better which will then flow to our structures and make the world a better place
    Indy

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    Post by Indy Mon 28 Nov 2016, 21:17

    William Murderface wrote:Hoću reći, mislim da tu ne treba tražiti šansu za oživljavanje levice u US. DObro je što postoje, ali od njih neće početi ništa.

    Ne bih se složio (nemam vremena da objašnjavam, moram na posao... samo da evidentiram.) EDIT. Šifra butterfly effect. +EDIT2. Proporcionalni izborni sistem!
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Wed 07 Dec 2016, 23:39

    POBEDA PETOKRAKE NA EVROPSKOM SUDU: Niko ne sme da je zabrani, svako može da je nosi


    Topik za prave levicare - Page 3 Petokraka-zvezda-crvena-zvezda-komunisti-srp-i-cekic-komunizam-foto-profim-1481143874-1053371
    plachkica

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    Post by plachkica Wed 07 Dec 2016, 23:44

    Isticanje crvene zvezde je sloboda izražavanja, piše u presudi Evropskog suda za ljudska prava iz 2008. godine, a u njoj stoji čak i da propagiranje komunističke ideologije samo po sebi nije kažnjivo.

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