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    Rat u Ukrajini

    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:05 am

    Notxor wrote:Ovo mi je važnija izjava iz istog intervjua

    „Mi jednostavno sebi više ne možemo dozvoliti pravo na nacionalni veto, na primer kada se radi o spoljnoj politici, ako želimo da se i dalje čujemo u svetu velikih sila koje se međusobno nedmeću“, kazao je Šolc.

    Da bi se to promenilo trebaće mu saglasnost svih, tako da, da bi prevazišao nacionalni veto mora da prevaziđe nacionalni veto Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 1399639816
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:24 am

    Scholz: The EU must close ranks

    As a consequence of the Russian war of aggression against Ukraine, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is advocating a stronger and "geopolitical European Union". In a guest article for the "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" published on Sunday afternoon, the SPD politician writes that the EU must close ranks in all fields in which it has so far been at odds: "In migration policy, for example, in the development of a European defense, in technological sovereignty and democratic resilience." He announced concrete proposals on this from the German government "in the coming months."

    Scholz: EU is antithesis to imperialism

    Scholz described the EU as the "living antithesis to imperialism and autocracy," which is why it is a thorn in the side of rulers like Russia's President Vladimir Putin. "Permanent disunity, permanent dissent among member states weakens us. That's why Europe's most important response to the changing times is: Unity. We absolutely must maintain it and we must deepen it," Scholz warned. The chancellor called for an end to "egoistic blockades of European decisions by individual member states." In foreign policy, for example, the EU can no longer afford national vetoes if it wants to continue to be heard in a world of competing great powers, he said.

    "Imperialism is back in Europe," the chancellor writes in the article, which is titled "Europe in Times of War - After the Turn of the Times." Russian missiles on Ukraine had not only caused massive destruction, "but also reduced the European and international peace order of the past decades to rubble." After the end of the Cold War, he said, people had "lulled themselves into a false sense of security." The dictum that Germany was now surrounded only by friends had been a mistake.

    Support Ukraine as long as necessary

    Scholz reiterated that Ukraine would be supported as long as it needed it, economically, humanitarianly, financially and by supplying weapons. "At the same time, we will ensure that NATO does not become a party to the war." He said the European Union has pulled together, and its "unprecedentedly tough sanctions" against Russia are working, a little more every day. What is clear, he said, is that they may have to be maintained for a long time. "And it is also clear to us that in the event of a Russian dictatorial peace, not a single one of these sanctions will be lifted. For Russia, there is no way around an agreement with Ukraine that can be accepted by Ukrainians."

    The chancellor acknowledged that ending energy dependence on Russia would not be easy, even for a prosperous country like Germany, and would take longer. "We will need staying power." Scholz referred to financial aid for the people amounting to well over 30 billion euros and the Concerted Action with employers and trade unions. "We have to stick together and get our act together," Scholz wrote. "Then, I am convinced, we will emerge from the crisis stronger and more independent than we went into it. That is our goal!"

    https://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/konflikte-scholz-die-eu-muss-ihre-reihen-schliessen-dpa.urn-newsml-dpa-com-20090101-220717-99-56472
    (Deepl prevod)


    Last edited by rumbeando on Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:36 am; edited 5 times in total
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    Post by MNE Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:27 am

    Del Cap wrote:
    Zelenski: Više od 60 pripadnika bezbednosti i tužilaštva radilo protiv Ukrajine

    Ukrajinski predsednik Volodimir Zelenski smenio je šefa Saveta bezbednosti Ukrajine Ivana Bakanova i glavnu državnu tužiteljku Irinu Venediktovu, navodeći stotine slučajeva navodne izdaje i kolaboracije sa Rusijom. On je kazao da je više od 60 zvaničnika iz Saveta bezbednosti Ukrajine i tužilaštva radilo protiv Ukrajine na teritorijama pod okupacijom Rusije, kao i da je otvoren 651 slučaj za izdaju i kolaboraciju protiv pravosudnih zvaničnika.

    „Takav niz zločina protiv temelja nacionalne državne bezbednosti… postavlja veoma ozbiljno pitanje za relevantne lidere. Svako od ovih pitanja će dobiti odgovarajući odgovor“, poručio je Zelenski, prenosi Rojters.

    U svom noćnom obraćanju naciji, Zelenski je pomenuo nedavno hapšenje zbog sumnje za izdaju bivšeg šefa Saveta bezbednosti zaduženog za Krim, koji je Rusija anektirala 2014, a Zapad ga i dalje smatra delom ukrajinske teritorije.

    Istakao je da je na početku ruske invazije otpustio glavnog bezbednosnog zvaničnika, što je odluka koja se sada pokazala kao opravdana.

    „Dovoljno dokaza je prikupljeno da se ova osoba prijavi zbog sumnje na izdaju. Sve njegove kriminalne aktivnosti su dokumentovane“, kazao je Zelenski.
    pa, pa, paranoja...
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:48 am

    Del Cap wrote:
    Notxor wrote:Ovo mi je važnija izjava iz istog intervjua



    Da bi se to promenilo trebaće mu saglasnost svih, tako da, da bi prevazišao nacionalni veto mora da prevaziđe nacionalni veto Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 1399639816

    To je jedna opcija. Druga je da neko prosto otpadne.
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Mon Jul 18, 2022 10:56 am

    Treca opcija je da mu nabiju simiku u dupe. Najbolje da se Nemcu prepusti da odlucuje spoljnu politiku EU. Mi jesmo govna i mi bismo to dopustili, cik da vidim Poljsku ili Italiju da to daju.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:14 am

    Pa Nemacka je najmanji jastreb u ovom slucaju
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Mon Jul 18, 2022 11:39 am

    Mór Thököly wrote:Pa Nemacka je najmanji jastreb u ovom slucaju

    +1

    Poljska nju uteruje u stroj, a ne obratno.


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    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:35 pm

    Ostavljajuci po strani dimenzije jastreba od 100 milijardi evra, ovde nije rec o tome ko prica glasnije, vec o tome ko je toliko lud da prepusti Nemcu da mu vodi spoljnu politiku. Srbija i Hrvatska bi to mozda uradile, zemlje koje drze do sebe - ni u ludilu. Zato cika Scholz moze da zaboravi na ukidanje veta ili neka pravi neku novu uniju.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:44 pm

    Pa nece samo Nemac, nego Nemac i Francuz Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 2304934895
    паће

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    Post by паће Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:46 pm

    Фали још један за виц.


    _____
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       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:43 pm

    Filipenko se za slamku hvata, nemojte da mu rušite predrasude.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:33 am

    Russia has hit Google with a 21.1bn rouble ($373m; £301m) fine for failing to restrict access to "prohibited" material about the war in Ukraine and other content.

    Roskomnadzor, the country's communications regulator, said the information included "fake" reports that discredited Russia's military and posts urging people to protest.

    It called the US tech giant a "systematic" violator of its laws.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62214564
    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:43 am

    Постављен је нови шеф украјинског СБУ.
    Прва асоцијација кад сам видео портрет као да га је Васја Ложкин нацртао.

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 FX8a7UZXoAAKKbU
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:01 am

    Mislim da je ocigledno odakle su dosli Juzni Sloveni...
    ficfiric

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    Post by ficfiric Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:16 am

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 Sbu10


    _____


    Uprava napolje!

    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Tue Jul 19, 2022 9:52 am

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 3579118792
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:28 am

    Sotir wrote:Постављен је нови шеф украјинског СБУ.
    Прва асоцијација кад сам видео портрет као да га је Васја Ложкин нацртао.

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 FX8a7UZXoAAKKbU


    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 286371741


    Da li bi se neko iznenadio da i ovaj ispadne ruski agent? Rat u Ukrajini - Page 26 2952840586
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Tue Jul 19, 2022 10:45 am

    SMERt Špionam


    Zelensky Takes Aim at Hidden Enemy: Ukrainians Aiding Russia


    In firing his intelligence chief and top prosecutor, President Volodymyr Zelensky signaled a more aggressive approach to a fifth column undermining Ukraine’s war effort.

    By Andrew E. Kramer and Valerie Hopkins
    July 18, 2022

    KYIV, Ukraine — Even as it engages in fierce fighting with Russia on the battlefield, Ukraine is also waging war on a different, more shadowy front: rooting out spies and collaborators in government and society who are providing crucial help to the invading forces.

    While Ukrainian society as a whole has rallied to the country’s defense, Russian sympathizers are reporting the locations of Ukrainian targets like garrisons or ammunition depots, Ukraine’s officials say. Priests have sheltered Russian officers and informed on Ukrainian activists in Russian-occupied areas. One official said collaborators had removed explosives from bridges, allowing Russian troops to cross.

    The issue was cast into sharp relief on Sunday night when President Volodymyr Zelensky dismissed two senior law enforcement officials, saying they had not been nearly aggressive enough in weeding out traitors. It was the first major reshuffle of his brain trust since the war began.

    Hundreds of treason investigations have been opened, Mr. Zelensky said in a televised address after the dismissals, which still must be confirmed by the Parliament, underscoring the depth of a problem that can provide a critical advantage to the enemy. The threat from spies in government, churches and intelligence agencies, and from Russian-leaning citizens in the East, has plagued Ukraine for years, but has become still more acute during the war.

    Mr. Zelensky specifically cited Ukraine’s security service, an unwieldy force of 27,000 personnel, the largest in Europe. Western allies believe the service has too many areas of operation, leaving it open to corruption, and prone to straying from its spy-hunting role.

    “Such an array of crimes against the foundations of the national security of the state, and the connections detected between the employees of the security forces of Ukraine and the special services of Russia, pose very serious questions to the relevant leadership,” Mr. Zelensky said.

    One of the officials Mr. Zelensky ousted on Sunday was the head of the domestic intelligence agency, Ivan Bakanov, a childhood friend of the president. The other was Iryna Venediktova, Ukraine’s prosecutor general. While Mr. Zelensky did not accuse them of betrayal, he suggested they had turned a blind eye to traitors in sensitive positions.

    “Actions and any inaction of each official in the security sector and in law enforcement agencies will be evaluated,” Mr. Zelensky said.

    The deputy head of the president’s office, Andriy Smirnov, was more pointed on Monday, saying the two officials were ousted for failing to “cleanse” their agencies of collaborators.

    “Everybody for a long time waited for more concrete, and maybe radical results,” Mr. Smirnov said. “At the same time, in the sixth month of the war we are still turning up wads of such people.”

    The intelligence service poses a particular problem for Ukraine because many of its chiefs graduated from K.G.B. schools, said Volodymyr Ariev, a member of Parliament in an opposition party that accused Mr. Zelensky of inaction on the issue before the dismissals on Sunday.

    “Of course, it’s not an easy task,” Mr. Ariev said. “They are not walking in the corridors with a badge saying ‘I am K.G.B.’”

    The reshuffling of top security positions provided the first outward sign of divisions in Mr. Zelensky’s team, which had been remarkably cohesive during the war. Ukrainian media and opposition politicians suggested alternative reasons for the shake-up, including Ms. Venediktova’s rising international profile as an aggressive prosecutor of war crimes; some officials fear these trials could lead to retaliatory prosecutions of Ukrainian prisoners in Russia’s hands.

    Mr. Zelensky said that more than 60 prosecutors and domestic intelligence agents had remained in Russian-occupied territory after the invasion and were collaborating with Moscow. He said the authorities had opened 651 criminal investigations of police officers, prosecutors and other security officials.

    More than 800 people suspected of engaging in sabotage and reconnaissance for the Russians, many of them civilians, have been detained and handed over to the Security Service of Ukraine since the war began, Yevhinnii Yenin, first deputy minister of internal affairs of Ukraine, said last month.

    The Ukrainians recently foiled a Russian plot to target the leadership of the Ukrainian government, Mr. Yenin said. And law enforcement agencies now operate 123 counter-sabotage groups comprising a total of at least 1,500 members, he said.

    Out in the villages and towns on the frontline of the war in eastern Ukraine, the most pro-Russian region of the country, soldiers worry continually about the threat posed by enemy sympathizers reporting their positions or helping direct Russian artillery fire.

    Russia’s battered forces have paused their drive to seize territory in the region, but continue to use their numerical advantage in artillery to batter Ukrainian towns and military units. A renewed offensive is expected before long.

    By the height of the fighting for the eastern city of Lysychansk last month, most civilians had fled, but significant portions of those who remained showed open disdain for the Ukrainian defenders. “We are a Russian nation,” said one resident in the city’s market who declined to provide his name. “You can kill us, but you can’t defeat us.”

    The Kremlin has shut down independent news organizations, feeding a distorted picture of Ukraine and the war to viewers in Russia and sympathizers in eastern Ukraine. But on Monday, one of the most important prewar Russian outlets, TV Rain, resumed broadcasting on YouTube from Riga, Latvia.

    Ruslan Osypenko, the police chief of Ukraine’s Donetsk region, which has been subjected to increasingly intense artillery attacks, said that tracking and detaining suspected informants was one of his top priorities. His force has a unit dedicated to monitoring social media channels to detect people passing information on military activities and targeting to Russian forces.

    Informants are of all  types, he said, and often act on the promise of a position in a future, Russian-controlled administration. “They can be young and old,” he said in an interview Monday in his temporary base in the city of Pokrovsk. “The Russian special services are working in this direction, we know that.”

    Mykyta Poturaiev, a Ukrainian lawmaker who recently convened a parliamentary committee to investigate collaboration, said that Orthodox priests loyal to Moscow had given pro-Russian sermons, provided Russians tips on targets, and informed on Ukrainian activists.


    “One example is very illustrative,” Mr. Poturaiev said. In one Russian-occupied village, he said, a priest helped billet Russian officers in local houses and arranged for a warehouse to store ammunition.

    But infiltration of the domestic intelligence service and prosecutors’ office — the very agencies that are intended to find and prosecute traitors — is particularly insidious.

    In his decree dismissing Mr. Bakanov, Mr. Zelensky cited an article under martial law that pertains to “failure to perform service duties, which led to human casualties or other grave consequences.”

    The decree did not specify what casualties or consequences, but speculation swirled in Kyiv on Monday that Mr. Bakanov had been ousted for glaring intelligence failures in the first days of the war in the southern city of Kherson, which the Russians captured almost without a fight. Local officials in Kherson switched sides, and explosives were removed from bridges around the city, Mr. Ariev, the opposition member of Parliament said.


    In late March, Mr. Zelensky stripped two generals of the security service of their ranks, calling them traitors; one was in charge of the Kherson region and the other fled Ukraine on the eve of the invasion, only to be apprehended months later in Serbia, accused of trying to smuggle cash and emeralds into the country.

    One Parliament member, Oleksiy Honcharenko, who is not affiliated with a party, said of Mr. Zelensky’s reference to “grave consequences,’’ “Translation: for the surrender of Kherson.”

    The security service, known by its Ukrainian initials S.B.U., is the country’s main domestic security and intelligence authority, Ukraine’s successor to the Soviet-era K.G.B. Its vast size has drawn criticism — by comparison, Britain’s MI5 has just 4,400 employees, according to the Atlantic Council — and it has long faced calls for reform.

    Business groups have said that the service shook down companies for bribes and that corrupt agents, compromised and facing possible prosecution, became easy marks for recruitment by Russia.

    “Surprise, surprise,” Serhiy Fursa, an analyst with Dragon Capital, a leading Ukrainian investment bank, wrote on Facebook of Mr. Zelensky’s charges of treachery in the service. “What lesson did this war give us? A corrupt man is Putin’s best friend.”
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    Post by MNE Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:03 pm

    kamo sreće da su stvarno bili kolaboratori ovaj rat bi se završio još u februaru
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    Post by Guest Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:08 pm

    Samo da proverim nešto: ti zaista misliš da je to što pišeš - pacifizam?
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    Post by MNE Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:30 pm

    nije ali je realnost, čim su amerikanci podvili rep i povukli sve svoje letjelice iz ukrajinskog vazdušnog prostora Ukrajincima je ostala samo jedna realna opcija, isto kao i nama 1999e, mada neki i dalje misle da je super što nam je izginulo par hiljada ljudi jer smo im oborili F117 i F16
    Tovar

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    Post by Tovar Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:08 pm

    MNE wrote:...Ukrajincima je ostala samo jedna realna opcija...

    Koja?
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:17 pm

    Pa da predaju AP Donbas jer je to ono sto su Rusi trazili od njih, kao i Nato od Srbije sto je trazio da izadje sa manjeg dela teritorije...oh, wait...
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:36 pm

    Srbija je bila sama protiv svih, Ukrajina nije. Podrska cesto nije dovoljna, ali svakako nije zanemarljiva.


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    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:49 pm

    Apsolutno, ali i razlika u zahtevima je ogromna. Rusi su de facto krenuli da pokore Ukrajinu i da im promene "licni opis". Zahtevi prema SRJ prosto nisu bili iste kategorije.

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