Rat u Ukrajini

Da, onog američkog generala sa tri zvezdice, uhvatili ga valjda dok je jeo marendu dok mu čizme upijaju imalin, pošto to generali naime rade, sede u opkoljenom gradu i rade nešto ko zna šta. Crtani film.

Filipenko wrote:

Cousin Billy wrote:Dosta

Slazem se, Samsung Galaxy A52S je sve sto ti treba. Mozes da ides i na vise od toga, ali to ti je kao Golf. It's everything you need of a car, the only question is if it is everything you want of a car.

Сумњам да су ополченци уопште запленили неку Точку. 
Ако и јесу лансер, нису сигурно магацин са ракетама. Тако да би можда имали пар комада при себи, на систему који сумњам да знају да користе. Тако да је натегнуто да би они то уопште користили.

На нету су се појавио снимак серијског броја ракете, који је наводно у низу серијских бројева ракета који су Украјинци испаљивали претходних година по Донбасу. Колико је тачно бем ли га, изгледа уверљиво.

Овај навод "Руси су признали да су гађали" је једно одсуство мозга. Неки Рус на улици видео експлозије и рекао "мора да су гађали воз са муницијом" је доказ за шта?

Ако претпоставимо да је мета био воз на станици, треба да се запитамо чиме би га гађали? Са касетном главом се гађа незаклоњена жива сила, "мека" возила итд. Не личи као мета за тај пројектил. Поготово што Точка није толико прецизна.

Једна од могућности је и да је Точка погођена. То је могло да доведе да падне и неколико километара пре.

Америчког генерала ће тешко наћи и у њиховим добро брањеним базама, тако да тешко да се налази и у некој припиздини са нацијима. Али извесно је да има странаца, као и битних ликова. Данас су покушали да приђу са неким теретним бродом у луку.
И још смо мислили да је самоубилачки прићи хеликоптером...

А не нету неки Украјинац тврди да је препливао из Мариупоља до неког села, и одатле се извукао преко линија. По температури воде од 7 степени.

Sotire, a da li je jedna od mogucnosti i da su Rusi svesno gadjali civile?

Mozda, samo mozda, malecna mogucnostcic?

Cousin Billy wrote:edit: apsolutno odbacujem mogućnost da, ko god da je gađao, nisu znali da su na stanici civili koji se evakuišu. to nije bila nikakva tajna, evakuacija je bila u toku već dva dana. ne postoji nikakva mogućnost za grešku ili drugačiju procenu i ta posada je znala da će gađati civile.

Морам да те исправим. Посада добије неке координате, сумњам да имају нет да гледају по Гуглу шта се тамо налази, или да у припиздини имају појма шта се дешава у неком месту 50км одатле. А не могу ни да виде шта гађају.
То је као да је за гађање кинеске амбасаде крива посада бомбардера. Јок, дали им координату они истоварили.

За такве циљеве неко доставља податке, проверава се снимцима са БПЛ, са терена и сл, и онда по потреби дејствује.

Cousin Billy wrote:Da, onog američkog generala sa tri zvezdice, uhvatili ga valjda dok je jeo marendu dok mu čizme upijaju imalin, pošto to generali naime rade, sede u opkoljenom gradu i rade nešto ko zna šta. Crtani film.

Zarkovic u daljem toku diskusije na Twitteru navodi da je neki potpukovnik u pitanju, dakle nije taj djeneral sto se spominje vec par dana. Doduse, onda je upitno i da li je rec o "visokom oficiru", ali dobro.

Erős Pista wrote:Sotire, a da li je jedna od mogucnosti i da su Rusi svesno gadjali civile?

Mozda, samo mozda, malecna mogucnostcic?

У теорији можда и постоји.
Ако су Руси гађали, пре мислим да су гађали нешто у широј околини.

Ако говоримо о намерном гађању цивила, треба имати пар ствари на уму:
Позив цивилима да напусте та места је дошао од проруских снага. Да изађу из места у којима би ускоро могле да се воде борбе.
Украјинским снагама више одговара да задрже цивиле у граду, нападачу се знатно отежава посао. Поготово што се ради о цивилима који су проруски оријентисани. Из те перспективе, украјинска снага би имала мотив.

Али то су све наклапања, без неких озбиљнијих доказа тешко може да се ишта закључи.
Досад смо видели материјални доказ о типу ракете, који изгледа прилично поуздано. 

Анализу одакле је долетела ракета (са југозапада) ми је сумњива. Може бит тако а не мора.
Серијски бројеви изгледају као добар траг, опет је питање колико су аутентични.
То су све докази који не пролазе на суду, нити озбиљнију анализу.

Sve dok su vam argumenti s interneta, slabo je to za ovaj skup

Samo sto ovo nije Agata Kristi, nego rat. Ako je neko pobio ukrajinske civile, onda je to, bez jakih argumenata za suprotno, uradio onaj ko i inace ubija ukrajinske civile i satire ukrajinske gradove sa zemljom.

Tesko je reci bez jasnih dokaza - da, sigurno su gadjali civile -  pustimo institucije da rade taj posao... Ali 99,9% je sansa da su gadjali rusi. Jer, again, sami su rekli da su gadjali tu i tada.

Postoji sasvim dovoljno drugih mesta gde je jasno da su, u najmanju ruku, izvodili dejstva bez ikakvog obzira prema civilima. And then there is Bucha.

Pa sa raznih tvitera cusmo potpukovnik koji je u stvari general Nato a mozda samo stranac, Tocka koja to mozda i nije nego kasetna bomba ili iskander koja mozda nije ni ciljana nego oborena kojom su gadjane vojne jedinice koje uopste nisu tad bile tu a bile ranije sto u stvari uopste nije tacno nego su ih gadjali ukrajinci sa preciznoscu drona iz Zagreba ili domaci Rusi ili okupacioni Rusi ili Azov ili strani placenici. E sve te informacije sam čitao sa mreža
V
Za Erosa. Mada i ja 80% verujem da su Rusi

Novi Mirshajmer. Hostesa je Ketrin vanden Huvel, zena pokojnog Stivena F. Koena.

NEW: Russia is sending an 8-mi long convoy of 100s of vehicles, including armored vehicles and artillery southbound through the Ukrainian town of Velykyi Burluk.

The convoy is moving about 60 mi east of Ukraine’s 2nd-largest city of Kharkiv, as focuses on Donbas.

:@Maxar pic.twitter.com/4EJRHSQZvk

— Jack Detsch (@JackDetsch) April 10, 2022

Zasto menjati pobedničku taktiku/strategiju

SUKOB u Ukrajini se premjestio na istok zemlje gdje se nalaze ukrajinske snage koje su prekaljene i dobro pripremljene, piše BBC u svojoj velikoj analizi o budućnosti ovog sukoba.

Analitičari vjeruju da su najbolje jedinice Ukrajine na istoku, te da su ukopane u sustave rovova i druge utvrđene položaje. Ukrajinski vojnici do sada su se snažno opirali ruskom napredovanju, ali sad bi mogli biti u poziciji da se bore protiv puno brojnijeg neprijatelja pošto je zabilježeno da Rusija gomila snage na istoku. Pretpostavka je i da će tamo doći dobar dio snaga koji se povukao iz okolice Kijeva.

https://www.index.hr/vijesti/clanak/velika-analiza-bbca-kako-ce-izgledati-rat-na-istoku-ukrajine/2354880.aspx

e ljudi doslovce ovo sto kaze eros. rat, rusi konstantno bombarduju ukrajinske ciljeve ukljucujuci i civilne i to pravdaju prisustvom ukr vojske. da nisu ovoliki ljudi izginuli ne bi se ni pravdali.

inace su mi retardirane sve price o zivahnim lesevima u retrovizoru, sumnjivoj balistici i slovenskom geniju koji ih razotkriva na telegramu i tiktoku. mislim evo da pomognem ako pukne ko ukrajinaca to su rusi, ako pukne kod rusa to su ukrajinci. i to sam vam resio.

Sotir wrote:Сумњам да су ополченци уопште запленили неку Точку. 
Ако и јесу лансер, нису сигурно магацин са ракетама. Тако да би можда имали пар комада при себи, на систему који сумњам да знају да користе. Тако да је натегнуто да би они то уопште користили.

pa jedan komad koji je pao je svakako manje od par komada pri sebi, to što je raketa pala na željezničku stanicu je izazvano možda i nestručnošću posade 

u ratu se dešavaju greške, mislim ukrajinski operater koji bi trebalo da bude i stručan je poslao dron na Zagreb

Tim Džuda, zanimljivi detalji o borbama oko Kijeva


How Kyiv was saved by Ukrainian ingenuity as well as Russian blunders

Gym mats and mobile phone apps helped Ukraine’s forces win the battle for the capital

Tim Judah in Hostomel 7 HOURS AGO

Stand on the railway embankment near Hostomel and look north-east and the story of Russia’s rout in the Battle of Kyiv comes together. Three kilometres away you can see the village of Moschun, the site of a big battle and just south of it are the woods where Oleksandr Konoko, a battalion commander, described how, armed with anti-tank weapons, small groups of his men advanced to encircle the Russians. It was at Moschun, and in the other suburban towns and villages north-west of Kyiv, that after a month the Russian ambition of capturing the Ukrainian capital sank into the area’s boggy wetlands. The Russian attempt to take Kyiv was defeated by a combination of factors including geography, the attackers’ blundering, Ukrainian ingenuity and modern arms — as well as smartphones: used for the first time in military history as weapons powerful in their own way as rockets and artillery. Moscow’s forces were thwarted, too, by pieces of foam mat — the Ukrainians call them karemats — costing as little as £1.50. The mats prevent Russian thermal imaging drones from detecting human heat. “We held the karemats over our head”, said Konoko, explaining how his men moved stealthily in tiny groups at night. In that way soldiers armed with anti-tank weapons supplied by the US, Britain and others could sneak up on the Russians, fire their deadly and accurate missiles and then slip away. Beyond the north-western outskirts of Kyiv before Hostomel, 30km from the city centre, lies a belt of forest. By the side of the road and at strategic junctions are massive trench and fortification systems which the Ukrainians began building immediately after the Russian invasion began early on February 24. Here too, somewhere in the forest, are the missile systems that kept Russian planes out of Kyiv and shot down incoming missiles. The Russians were unable to destroy these air defence batteries at the beginning of the war, an important failure. But, prioritising the capital, Ukraine did not have air defences for other towns. Other failures in those first days compounded Russia’s overall defeat on the outskirts of the capital, said Serhii Kuzan, chair of the Ukrainian Security and Cooperation Centre, a think-tank. The Russians failed to knock out important parts of Ukraine’s military infrastructure, such as Kyiv’s air defence system, at the very beginning of the campaign, he said, meaning their campaign quickly ran into trouble. Commanders of different units continued to follow their original orders, even though events were not going to plan, thus compounding problems which arose as Ukraine’s military rose to the challenge.

 Ukrainian forces have undergone profound reforms in recent years and unlike the vast majority of Russian army officers, thousands of their Ukrainian counterparts have battle experience from the eight-year war in the east. When they ran into problems, says Kuzan, Russian officers could only refer upwards in an old-fashioned, bureaucratic way while the Ukrainians were able to adjust to rapidly changing circumstances. Konoko’s story exemplifies this. Sitting on his karemat in his HQ in Kyiv, his pistol on the coffee table and his Kalashnikov propped up by the sofa, he explained that he had been wounded several times fighting in the east after the war began in Donbas in 2014, where pro-Russian militants and Russian forces carved out two breakaway states. He then retired to run a market garden. When the Russians attacked, he and his friends, all Donbas veterans, volunteered to join the new Territorial Defence Force. Its aim is to release soldiers to go to the front while leaving others to perform duties behind the lines. They were assigned to guard checkpoints, said Konoko. But he had not put his potatoes aside for this. “I have got a lot of experience,” he said indignantly. Very soon his newly formed unit, a combination of veterans and highly motivated younger men, left for Moschun, which had been occupied by the Russians. The unit was also transferred to the command of the regular army. Today the battalion consists of 725 men. According to Kuzan, the recent military reforms and a new generation of battle-hardened commanders, were central to the defence of Kyiv. Co-ordination between the army, Territorial Defence, the police and several other armed units of Ukraine’s security services worked well, in a way which they had failed to do in 2014. Then the army had been run down by Viktor Yanukovych, a Moscow loyalist who served as Ukraine’s president from 2010 until he was ousted in 2014. The security services were riddled with pro-Russians who have since been purged. Look at the map and it is easy to understand the Russian plan for Kyiv. The mighty Dnieper River runs through the capital. North of the city it is kilometres wide and runs all the way up to the border with Belarus. The Russians came for Kyiv in a pincer movement advancing south. But on both banks they were quickly stymied. On March 10 their advance on the left or east bank was stopped in the town of Skybyn when an armoured convoy was ambushed and forced to retreat. The Russians found themselves blocked on the right bank too. On February 24 they seized Hostomel airport using helicopters only to be driven out by the Ukrainians. The next day the Russians were back, but this time by road. They took the town of Hostomel, though fighting was intense, and then neighbouring Bucha. But then they failed to take Irpin, the next domino. Irpin falling would have brought them to the gates of Kyiv. 

 At this point Ukrainian ingenuity and Russian blundering brought the campaign to a halt. The house of Dmytro Lysovyy’s parents lies 200m from the railway embankment near Hostomel. The Samsung executive had come there at the beginning of the war thinking he would be safer than in Kyiv. On the second day of the invasion elderly friends of his parents, who did not have a smartphone, called to tell them where they had seen a Russian convoy close to the airport. Lysovyy immediately opened “STOP Russian War”, a Telegram chatbot created by the security services, and input the location. He also put a pin in the Google Maps location, screenshotted it and sent that, plus everything else he knew. “I think many others made the same report,” he said. About 30 minutes later the convoy was attacked by the Ukrainian military. In the distance the sky glowed orange from the flames, Lysovyy recalled. Officials have since made it easier for citizens to upload enemy locations through the Diia app, a government portal for digital documents such as driving licences and Covid passes used by millions of Ukrainians. Mstyslav Banik, a director at the ministry of digital transformation which created Diia, said that in the first days of the defence of Kyiv, before the Russians destroyed mobile masts to prevent Ukrainians disclosing their positions, their reports played “really a great role”, in defending the city. Everyone was trying to help, he says, and this “is the new reality of war”. People trapped behind Russian lines using chatbots, he said, were playing a 21st century version of partisans behind Nazi lines during the second world war. To make sure that the Russians do not feed Ukrainian positions into the chatbot, says Banik, somewhere in Ukraine teams filter reports before they are passed to the military. 

Paranoid about what was happening, Russian troops went from house to house hunting for smartphones, according to Lysovyy and other witnesses in the newly liberated territories. They also destroyed laptops and any other device that could be used to communicate. A Kindle and a smashed phone still lie on the grass in front of his house. Just as it was dangerous being a partisan behind the lines in the second world war, using a smartphone today can be equally deadly. In the village of Motyzhyn, 50km west of Kyiv, Hennadiy Merchynskyi was executed and dumped down a drainage shaft. Zoya Merchynskaya, his widow, reckoned he was murdered after the Russians found pictures of their tanks on his phone. To cut off Ukrainians in the occupied territories Russian troops set about destroying 4G mobile transmission units. But that meant they could not use their own encrypted system. They also need 4G. This in turn made it harder for units following the original plan to communicate. On the Dnieper 30km north-east of Hostomel lies the Kozarovychi dam, which controls the inflow of the smaller Irpin river. Soon after the war began the Russians attacked and damaged this dam. “It was a crucial mistake,” said Konoko — because the whole flood plain of the Irpin became inundated. Blocked by Ukrainian resistance further south at Irpin, the Russians found it impossible to cut across eastward in significant numbers at Moschun and then turn south to attack and enter the capital. By blowing up the dam the land that lay between Hostomel and Moschun had returned to the impenetrable wetland it had been before it was built. In normal times you can reach Kyiv through Horenka, another small town south of Moschun, but the damage here and the shattered warehouses and the massive crater at the Kuehne+Nagel warehouse testify to the ferocity of the failed Russian attack. As at Irpin the Russians were simply unable to break Ukrainian resistance. The Russians had taken Moschun at the beginning of the war. But with their path to Kyiv blocked at Horenka, where the Ukrainians had also partially blown the bridge, now only a couple of small, single-track roads across the railway remained to reach the capital. These were vulnerable to attack. So, said Konoko, the Russians tried to get across using pontoons but as the water rose it became impossible to get significant numbers of vehicles and men across fast enough. Konoko’s men attacked with anti-tank weapons or called in artillery strikes. They took back Moschun on March 26. The Russians had, in effect, come down a funnel and been blocked, creating the widely reported traffic jam of military vehicles stretching along 65km of road to the north. Unable to move forward, bombarded by the Ukrainians, harried by their small mobile units and fast losing men and equipment, the Russians decided to cut their losses on March 31 and run. Kyiv had been defended and so the first chapter in Russia’s latest onslaught on Ukraine ended. Now the war has moved to the east. But it is telling that the Ukrainians are not yet talking of victory in Kyiv. On Friday, Brigadier-general Oleksandr Hruzevych, the army’s deputy chief of staff, said that if the Russians succeeded in taking Donbas they might attack the capital once again. “Yes, now there is a certain lull in Kyiv Oblast [district] but not for the military,” he said.

Ukraine and Russia send reinforcements to Donbas, preparing for major new battle. Many of the tactical advantages that Ukraine enjoyed in the first phase of the war are absent on the Donbas front — which is why it needs new, heavier, weapons. My latest. https://t.co/nXtRMneW1C

— Yaroslav Trofimov (@yarotrof) April 10, 2022

Zanimljiv video ISIS kvaliteta - U prebijenu devojku Ukrajinu ulazi probuđeni bog Kron i kolje srpom ruskog vojnika.
Nije ona priča o kastraciji pala sa neba.

https://t.me/istorijaoruzija/53603

edit: Zaboravih... nije stvarno, nego scenario, režija, glumci... taj rad.

stari liberal

SpeCijAlnA OpeRacIjA? Misliš reklama za Bajraktar dronove? Jermenija je bila teaser, Ukrajina je trailer.

RWA su objavili deo ukrajinske "propagande" na twitteru.

Spoiler: