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    USA - США - SAD

    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Tue May 03, 2022 3:21 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Mislim da se precenjuje uticaj na izbore. Glasaci se jednostavno ne opredeljuju po tom kriterijumu za koga ce da glasaju, i do sada je 80+ posto ljudi bilo za abortus (uslovni ili neuslovni), pa opet republikanci nekako namaknu pola birackog tela. Zene koje zive u drzavama u kojima ce abortus biti zabranjen ce u kola pa caskom preko imaginarne granicne crte u prvi planned parenthood u plavoj drzavi da ostave svoje fetuse za klintona i gejca.

    mislim da potcenjujes koliko je ovo krucijalno pitanje za ameriku. ovo ce dovesto do anti-trampovske mobilizacije glasaca. nesto sto je trebao da bude kruzing za GOP se upravo pretvorilo u bitku.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Uncle Baby Billy

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    Post by Uncle Baby Billy Tue May 03, 2022 3:22 pm

    @boomer, o protivnicima roe v wade
    uf, kako koji. kad u čitavim državama na jugu legalno možeš da obaviš abortus na jednom ili dva mesta, to je de facto malo gore od francuske.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Tue May 03, 2022 3:24 pm

    Uncle Baby Billy wrote:@boomer, o protivnicima roe v wade
    uf, kako koji. kad u čitavim državama na jugu legalno možeš da obaviš abortus na jednom ili dva mesta, to je de facto malo gore od francuske.

    ma pristup zdravstvenoj nezi je jedno. i naravno da je amerika gora od francuske u tom smislu. ja govorim o zakonskim ogranicenjima.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Uncle Baby Billy

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    Post by Uncle Baby Billy Tue May 03, 2022 3:28 pm

    boomer crook wrote:
    Filipenko wrote:Mislim da se precenjuje uticaj na izbore. Glasaci se jednostavno ne opredeljuju po tom kriterijumu za koga ce da glasaju, i do sada je 80+ posto ljudi bilo za abortus (uslovni ili neuslovni), pa opet republikanci nekako namaknu pola birackog tela. Zene koje zive u drzavama u kojima ce abortus biti zabranjen ce u kola pa caskom preko imaginarne granicne crte u prvi planned parenthood u plavoj drzavi da ostave svoje fetuse za klintona i gejca.

    mislim da potcenjujes koliko je ovo krucijalno pitanje za ameriku. ovo ce dovesto do anti-trampovske mobilizacije glasaca. nesto sto je trebao da bude kruzing za GOP se upravo pretvorilo u bitku.
    iskreno sumnjam u ovo. na mestima gde će biti odlučujući izbori za budući sastav kongresa mnogo će biti bitniji percipirani brendonov učinak. možda će gop morati da odustane od challengeovanja u liberalnijim sredinama gde su se evt mogli nečemu nadati, ali npr. onaj mali smrda jd vance u ohaju ne verujem da će ovo mnogo da oseti.


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    ja se rukovodim logikom gvozdenih determinizama
    Uncle Baby Billy

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    Post by Uncle Baby Billy Tue May 03, 2022 3:29 pm

    boomer crook wrote:
    Uncle Baby Billy wrote:@boomer, o protivnicima roe v wade
    uf, kako koji. kad u čitavim državama na jugu legalno možeš da obaviš abortus na jednom ili dva mesta, to je de facto malo gore od francuske.

    ma pristup zdravstvenoj nezi je jedno. i naravno da je amerika gora od francuske u tom smislu. ja govorim o zakonskim ogranicenjima.
    pa nemoj mi to razdvajat USA - США - SAD - Page 10 1233199462
    stanje na terenu dobro ukazuje na namere, ja bih rekao.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Tue May 03, 2022 3:30 pm

    Uncle Baby Billy wrote:
    boomer crook wrote:

    mislim da potcenjujes koliko je ovo krucijalno pitanje za ameriku. ovo ce dovesto do anti-trampovske mobilizacije glasaca. nesto sto je trebao da bude kruzing za GOP se upravo pretvorilo u bitku.
    iskreno sumnjam u ovo. na mestima gde će biti odlučujući izbori za budući sastav kongresa mnogo će biti bitniji percipirani brendonov učinak. možda će gop morati da odustane od challengeovanja u liberalnijim sredinama gde su se evt mogli nečemu nadati, ali npr. onaj mali smrda jd vance u ohaju ne verujem da će ovo mnogo da oseti.

    ma gde. ako ovo prodje napravice referendumsku atmosferu.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    boomer crook

    Posts : 37618
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    Post by boomer crook Tue May 03, 2022 3:31 pm

    Uncle Baby Billy wrote:
    boomer crook wrote:

    ma pristup zdravstvenoj nezi je jedno. i naravno da je amerika gora od francuske u tom smislu. ja govorim o zakonskim ogranicenjima.
    pa nemoj mi to razdvajat USA - США - SAD - Page 10 1233199462
    stanje na terenu dobro ukazuje na namere, ja bih rekao.

    pa naravno, oni to sabotiraju vec 40. godina.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Tue May 03, 2022 3:32 pm

    mislim pogledaj ovo

    https://www.nbc4i.com/news/your-local-election-hq/vance-leads-dolan-surging-in-last-minute-ohio-gop-senate-poll/


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Tue May 03, 2022 3:36 pm

    Mislim da je demokratama pretila ozbiljna apstinencija i demobilizacija njihovih birača, a sada slutim da će se to promeniti u njihovu korist.


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    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Tue May 03, 2022 3:37 pm

    ma mislim da postoji cak i mogucnost da deo hriscanske desnice bude bacen u neku uljuljkanost kada dobiju sta zele a da deo GOPera pretrci. bice svasta. i to bas ohajo nije bezbedan.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    lalinea

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    Post by lalinea Tue May 03, 2022 3:38 pm

    boomer crook wrote:
    Filipenko wrote:Mislim da se precenjuje uticaj na izbore. Glasaci se jednostavno ne opredeljuju po tom kriterijumu za koga ce da glasaju, i do sada je 80+ posto ljudi bilo za abortus (uslovni ili neuslovni), pa opet republikanci nekako namaknu pola birackog tela. Zene koje zive u drzavama u kojima ce abortus biti zabranjen ce u kola pa caskom preko imaginarne granicne crte u prvi planned parenthood u plavoj drzavi da ostave svoje fetuse za klintona i gejca.

    mislim da potcenjujes koliko je ovo krucijalno pitanje za ameriku. ovo ce dovesto do anti-trampovske mobilizacije glasaca. nesto sto je trebao da bude kruzing za GOP se upravo pretvorilo u bitku.
    Potcenjuje i koliko ta ideja 'hop u auto pa preko state granice' u praksi ne radi. Da pocnemo od preopterecenosti lekara u granicnim drzavama pa nadalje...


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    you cannot simply trust a language model when it tells you how it feels
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Tue May 03, 2022 3:42 pm

    Uncle Baby Billy wrote:
    boomer crook wrote:

    ma pristup zdravstvenoj nezi je jedno. i naravno da je amerika gora od francuske u tom smislu. ja govorim o zakonskim ogranicenjima.
    pa nemoj mi to razdvajat USA - США - SAD - Page 10 1233199462
    stanje na terenu dobro ukazuje na namere, ja bih rekao.

    +1

    Otežan pristup je u ovom konkretnom slučaju samo sredstvo za ostvarenje cilja - a cilje je da se pravo potpuno neutralizuje ili da se njegovo praktikovanje što je moguće više oteža. Ako ukinu RvW, taktiziranje više neće biti potrebno i verujem da će, bar u nekim državama, ići na poptuno zabranu.

    Uostalom, da ne nagađamo:



    Background

    Changes to the makeup of the U.S. Supreme Court in 2018 raise the possibility that Roe v. Wade could be severely undermined—or even overturned—essentially leaving the legality of abortion to individual states. A reversal of Roe could establish a legal path for states’ pre-1973 abortion bans, as well as currently unenforced post-1973 bans, to take effect.

    Many state lawmakers continue to consider and enact abortion bans that fly in the face of constitutional standards and Roe’s precedent in anticipation of an eventual lawsuit on such a ban coming before a Supreme Court hostile to abortion rights.

    Some bans prohibit abortion under all or nearly all circumstances, a tactic widely viewed as an attempt to provoke a legal challenge to Roe. Several of this type of ban that were passed by states have been blocked by court orders and would require further court action to be enforced.

    Other bans enacted after Roe are designed to be “triggered” and take effect automatically or by swift state action if Roe is overturned. Several states even have laws declaring the state’s intent to ban abortion to whatever extent is permitted by the U.S. Constitution, making their desire to halt abortion access in the state clear. A few states have amended their constitution to declare that it does not contain any protection for abortion rights or allow public funds to be used for abortion.

    Meanwhile, policymakers in some states have approved laws to protect abortion rights without relying on the Roe decision. Most of these policies prohibit the state from interfering with the right to obtain an abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the life or health of the pregnant person.

    Visit our state legislation tracker for policy activity on all sexual and reproductive health topics.
    Highlights

    23 states have laws that could be used to restrict the legal status of abortion.
    9 states retain their unenforced, pre-Roe abortion bans.
    13 states have post-Roe laws to ban all or nearly all abortions that would be triggered if Roe were overturned.
    9 states have unconstitutional post-Roe restrictions that are currently blocked by courts but could be brought back into effect with a court order in Roe’s absence.
    7 states have laws that express the intent to restrict the right to legal abortion to the maximum extent permitted by the U.S. Supreme Court in the absence of Roe.
    4 states have passed a constitutional amendment explicitly declaring that their constitution does not secure or protect the right to abortion or allow use of public funds for abortion.
    16 states and the District of Columbia have laws that protect the right to abortion.
    4 states and the District of Columbia have codified the right to abortion throughout pregnancy without state interference.
    12 states explicitly permit abortion prior to viability or when necessary to protect the life or health of the pregnant person.



    https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/abortion-policy-absence-roe


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Tue May 03, 2022 3:43 pm

    lalinea wrote:
    boomer crook wrote:

    mislim da potcenjujes koliko je ovo krucijalno pitanje za ameriku. ovo ce dovesto do anti-trampovske mobilizacije glasaca. nesto sto je trebao da bude kruzing za GOP se upravo pretvorilo u bitku.
    Potcenjuje i koliko ta ideja 'hop u auto pa preko state granice' u praksi ne radi. Da pocnemo od preopterecenosti lekara u granicnim drzavama pa nadalje...

    Naravno.

    A ima i ovog...

    US states could ban people from traveling for abortions, experts warn


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    lalinea

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    Post by lalinea Tue May 03, 2022 3:47 pm

    Kao i kazne ako pomognes nekome da ostvari takvo putovanje.


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    you cannot simply trust a language model when it tells you how it feels
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Tue May 03, 2022 3:49 pm

    Ma to je glupost, pravo na kretanje kroz zemlju bez ograničenja je osnovno pravo. Ako nema tog prava, nema države.


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Tue May 03, 2022 4:23 pm

    I onda neki kalifat tipa Alabame ograniči to pravo, oštećena strana ode do Vrhovnog suda, i oni iskopaju slučaj Abigail Goodwife vs. governor Merryweather Fuckface iz 1802. godine u kome je Abigail htela da odnese trofejnu kokošku u drugu državu da je proda na sajmu, iako je zemlja na kojoj je kokoška kljucala pripadala guverneru. Ona je u tome sprečena putem primene fizičke sile, a naknadno je na sudu ustanovljeno da je supstancijalnost kokoške u velikoj meri određena vlasništvom guvernera nad zemljom. pa je, primenom drevne maksime post kljuc ergo propter zvec zvec odluka o ograničavanju kretanja dobila na pravnoj težini.
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Tue May 03, 2022 4:28 pm

    Cousin Billy wrote:I onda neki kalifat tipa Alabame ograniči to pravo, oštećena strana ode do Vrhovnog suda, i oni iskopaju slučaj Abigail Goodwife vs. governor Merryweather Fuckface iz 1802. godine u kome je Abigail htela da odnese trofejnu kokošku u drugu državu da je proda na sajmu, iako je zemlja na kojoj je kokoška kljucala pripadala guverneru. Ona je u tome sprečena putem primene fizičke sile, a naknadno je na sudu ustanovljeno da je supstancijalnost kokoške u velikoj meri određena vlasništvom guvernera nad zemljom.
    Ne brt. Ne mozes iz Alabame u Kolorado da bi kupio marihuanu i sa istom se vratio u Alabamu, jer je marihuana narkotik jer tako kaze savezni zakon. To je interstate commerce, dozvoljen je za sve osim za ono za sta je po saveznom zakonu zabranjeno.

    Ali savezni zakon ne zabranjuje abortus i zato putovanje van drzave da bi se izvrsio abortus nije zabranjeno i ne moze legalno da se zabrani.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Tue May 03, 2022 4:32 pm

    Ja naravno karikiram ali niko ne govori o direktnom ograničavanju putovanja već o seriji propisa koji onemogućavaju ostvarivanje prava na abortus u drugoj saveznoj državi, imaš sve na linkovima.
    I to je sumanuto ali ostvarljivo ako postoji politička volja. A namerno karikiram da bih demonstrirao ono rule by law vs rule of law.
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Tue May 03, 2022 4:35 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:Ali savezni zakon ne zabranjuje abortus i zato putovanje van drzave da bi se izvrsio abortus nije zabranjeno i ne moze legalno da se zabrani.


    Koliko razumem nerazumne amerikanske stvari, ni sada nece biti zabranjeno nego ce se ostavljati drzavama pojedinacno, tj. federalni nivo se nece moci mesati u to pitanje.

    Sve u svemu, samo nek je veselo. USA - США - SAD - Page 10 800920403


    Last edited by Filipenko on Tue May 03, 2022 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Tue May 03, 2022 4:35 pm

    Znam o cemu se tu prica, znam i da ima zakon o drukanju, znam i da je Vrhovni sud odbio da te zakon ekspresno stavi na led, nego hajmo u regularnu proceduru. Samo kazem da, ako na kraju regularne procedure zastite zakonitosti Vrhovni sud kaze da je OK sprecavati ljude da putuju van drzave da bi dobili uslugu koja nije zabranjena saveznim zakonom, to je efektivno kraj Sjedinjenih Americkih Drzava.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Tue May 03, 2022 4:38 pm

    Filipenko wrote:
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:Ali savezni zakon ne zabranjuje abortus i zato putovanje van drzave da bi se izvrsio abortus nije zabranjeno i ne moze legalno da se zabrani.


    Koliko razumem nerazumne amerikanske stvari, ni sada nece biti zabranjeno nego ce se ostavljati drzavama pojedinacno, tj. federalni nivo se nece moci mesati u to pitanje.

    Sve u svemu, samo nek je veselo. USA - США - SAD - Page 10 800920403
    Nece biti ni garantovano pravo u celom Savezu, niti zabranjeno na celoj teritoriji Saveza. Ne pricamo sada o tome, pricamo da li sme zena da ode iz drzave gde je zabranjeno u drzavu gde nije, i da nad njom izvrse abortus.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Tue May 03, 2022 4:39 pm

    Slobodna zemlja, neka se preseli, ne drze je lancima u drzavi gde joj je napravljeno dete USA - США - SAD - Page 10 29297947

    Trzisno resenje :klacar:
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Tue May 03, 2022 4:39 pm

    obično bežim od priča "Amerika propada", ali ovo je baš ozbiljna stvar i jako će izoštriti postojeće podele, možda i do nekih odluka koje će se kositi sa ustavnim poretkom. mene u ovoj deceniji više ništa ne bi iznenadilo.
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Tue May 03, 2022 4:42 pm

    Delilo se i rimsko carstvo pa se opet spajalo, a efektivno prema spolja je i kad je razjedinjeno bilo ujedinjeno. Jedino Sarmatima da ih dele...
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Tue May 03, 2022 4:43 pm

    Cousin Billy wrote:obično bežim od priča "Amerika propada", ali ovo je baš ozbiljna stvar 
    Jeste. Ne toliko zabrana abortusa (mada je i to veoma ozbiljno), vec i pratece mere zabrane putovanja i drukanje u vezi toga.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”

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