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    Syriza ftw

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    Post by Guest Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:55 pm

    http://pescanik.net/dogadanje-naroda/

    I Milošević je počeo kao antibirokratska revolucija; ova Ciprasova je, doduše, pre svega antibankarska, mada danas između to dvoje i nema velike razlike.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:57 pm

    Budala.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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    Post by beatakeshi Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:08 pm

    plus 111 (na neviđeno), Mijat je stara zvezda stand-up komedije.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:07 pm

    Je l smo se negde osvrtali na Karapandzu?
    Indy

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    Post by Indy Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:31 pm

    Jesmo, post 674 na ovoj temi by plačkica, pa nadalje.
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    Post by Guest Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:39 pm

    Indy wrote:Ali, Nemci nisu vratili dug (vecim delom).

    Hvala Indi. I slazemo se. Piketi govori o nemackoj drzavi kao duzniku. Karapandza uzasno pokvareno to prevodi u nacionalizam. Drzava je ucesnik u pravnom prometu kao i bilo ko drugi (u ovom kontekstu, vracanja dugova). Kupuje prodaje oduzima i dodaje. Salto mortale po kojem se to ne moze analizirati a da se Nemcima (kao naciji) ne pripisu nekakva svojstva je budalastina.
    I izvinjavam se sto vas vracam unazad u diskusiji Syriza ftw - Page 30 1241126653
    Uzasnuo me ovaj.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:07 pm

    Alain Badiou: Eleven points inspired by the situation in Greece

    By Miri Davidson / 09 July 2015
    By Alain Badiou, Athens, 7 July. Originally published in Liberation. Translated from the French by David Broder.

    Syriza ftw - Page 30 Badiou-black-and-white-gcas1-e08e420453d897716c14124004db6815
    Copyright: Giovanni Tusa 2014.

    It is urgently necessary to internationalise the Greek people’s cause. Only the total elimination of the debt would bring an "ideological blow" to the current European system.

    1. The Greek people’s massive "No" does not mean a rejection of Europe. It means a rejection of the bankers’ Europe, of infinite debt and of globalised capitalism.

    2. Isn’t it true that part of nationalist opinion, or even of the far Right, also voted "No" to the financial institutions’ demands – to the diktat from Europe’s reactionary governments? Well, yes, we know that any purely negative vote will be partly confused. It has always been the case that the far Right can reject certain things that the far Left also rejects. The only clear thing is the affirmation of what we want. But everyone knows that what Syriza wants is opposed to what the nationalists and the fascists want. So the vote is not just a generic vote against the anti-popular demands of globalised capitalism and its European servants. It is also, for the moment, a vote of confidence in the Tsipras government.

    3. The fact that this is happening in Greece and not – as ought to be the case – everywhere else in Europe, indicates that the European "Left" has sunk into an irreversible coma. François Hollande? German Social Democracy? Spain’s PSOE? PASOK in Greece? The Labour Party?  All these parties are now overtly the managers of globalised capitalism. There is not – there is no longer – a European "Left". There is a little hope, which is still not very clearly defined, in the wholly new political formations linked to the mass movement against debt and austerity, namely Podemos in Spain and Syriza in Greece. As it happens, Podemos repudiate the distinction between "Left" and "Right". I do, too. It belongs to the old world of parliamentary politics, which must be destroyed.

    4. The Tsipras government’s tactical victory offers encouragement to all new propositions in the political field. The parliamentary system and its government parties have been in an endemic crisis for decades, since the 1980s. Syriza’s successes in Greece – even if they are temporary ones – are part of what I have called "the reawakening of History" in Europe. This can only help Podemos, and everything that is to come, in future and elsewhere, over the ruins of classic parliamentary democracy.

    5. However, in my opinion the situation in Greece remains a very difficult, very fragile one. It’s now that the true difficulties will begin. It is possible that the Merkels, the Hollandes and the other executors of European capital’s power will alter their demands in light of the tactical success of the referendum (a vote that makes them into defendants in the court of history). But it is necessary to act without paying too much attention to them. The crucial point, now, is to know whether the "No" vote will expand into a powerful popular movement, supporting and/or exercising acute pressure on the government itself.

    6. Indeed, how should we judge the Tsipras government today? Five months ago he decided to start by negotiating. He wanted to buy time. He wanted to be able to say that he had done everything to reach an agreement. I’d have preferred him to begin in a different way: with an immediate appeal for a mass, extended popular mobilisation involving millions of people, with its central demand being the complete abolition of the debt. And also through an intensive struggle against the speculators, corruption, the rich who don’t pay their taxes, the arms manufacturers, the Church… But I am not Greek, and I don’t want to give lessons. I don’t know if an action so centred on popular mobilisation – in a sense, a rather dictatorial action – was possible. For the moment, after five months of the Tsipras government, there has been this victorious referendum and the situation remains completely open. That is already a lot.

    7. I continue to think that the hardest ideological blow that could be struck against the current European system is represented by the demand for the complete elimination of Greece’s debt – a speculators’ debt for which the Greek people bears absolutely no responsibility. Objectively, it is possible to eliminate the Greek debt: plenty of economists – far from all of them revolutionary – think that Europe has to cancel it. But politics is subjective, in which sense it is different from pure economics. Europe’s governments are absolutely determined to prevent a Syriza triumph on this score. Such a victory would open the way to Podemos, and after that, perhaps other powerful popular movements in Europe’s larger countries. So Europe’s governments – urged on by financial lobbies – want to punish Syriza, punish the Greek people, rather than resolve the debt problem. The best way to punish these punishers themselves would be to default on the debt, whatever the risks that this would entail. Argentina did it a few years ago, and it isn’t dead – far from it.

    8. Everywhere there is agitation over the possibility of Greece’s "exit" from Europe. But in truth it is the European reactionaries who are brandishing this notion. They’re the ones making "Grexit" an immediate threat. They hope that this will frighten people. The correct line, which up till now has been the position taken by both Syriza and Podemos, is to say: "We are staying in Europe. We only want – as is our right – to change the rules of this Europe. We want it to stop being a transmission belt between globalised liberal capitalism and the continuation of peoples’ suffering. We want a really free, people’s Europe". It’s up to the reactionaries to say what they think of that. If they want to chase Greece out, let them try! On this point, the ball is in their court.

    9. We hear of geopolitical fears mounting in the background. And what if Greece did turn to people other than the Whipping Fathers and Mothers [Père fouettard: a kind of anti-Santa Claus, who punishes naughty children at Christmas] of Europe? Well, I’ll say this: all European governments have an independent foreign policy. They cultivate entirely cynical friendships, like Hollande’s ties with Saudi Arabia. Faced with the pressures to which it is being subjected, Greece can and must have just as free a policy. The European reactionaries want to punish the Greek people, and, as such, it has the right to seek foreign help in order to diminish or prevent the effects of this punishment. Greece can and must turn to Russia, the Balkan countries, China, Brazil, and even to its old historic enemy Turkey.

    10. But whatever comes of this outside help, the situation in Greece will be resolved by the Greeks themselves. The principle of the primacy of internal factors applies to this situation, too. Now, the risks are all the more considerable in that Syriza is only formally in power. We know – we can feel it – that already the old political forces are engaged in intrigues behind the scenes. Even beyond the fact that state power very rapidly corrupts, when it is acquired in regular and non-revolutionary conditions, we could obviously pose some classic questions: is Syriza in complete control of the police, the army, the justice system, the economic and financial oligarchy? Certainly not. The internal enemy still exists, it remains almost intact, it is still powerful, and it enjoys the support in the shadows of Syriza’s foreign enemies, including the European bureaucracy and the reactionary governments. The popular movement and its grassroots organisations must keep a constant watch over the government’s actions. To repeat – the "No" in the referendum will only be a true force when it continues into very powerful independent movements.

    11. International popular support – a ceaseless one, one that demonstrates, one that catches the media’s attention – must devote all its forces to Greece’s possible call for mobilisation. Today, I’ll remind you, 10 percent of the world population possesses 86 percent of disposable wealth. The world capitalist oligarchy is very narrow, very concentrated, and very organised. Faced with this, dispersed peoples lacking in political unity and closed off within their national borders, will remain weak and almost impotent. Everything today is playing out at a global level. Transforming the Greek cause into an international cause of very powerful symbolic value is a necessity, and, therefore, a duty.

    - See our Greece Reading List for more articles, interviews and books on Greece and the Eurozone crisis.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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    Post by Guest Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:53 am

    Petnaeste, petnaeste,
    Grk se inatio,
    Petnaeste, petnaeste, 
    Svaba pobedio.
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    Post by fernoux-h Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:02 am

    William Murderface wrote:As it happens, Podemos repudiate the distinction between "Left" and "Right". I do, too. It belongs to the old world of parliamentary politics, which must be destroyed.

    Pošto sam relativno skoro počeo da se bavim Badjuom, može li neko (William) da mi malo približi ovu njegovu ideju. Znam da su u pitanju državne politike vs. politike odozdo, ali i ovo mi je kod njega nejasno, a pogotovo to zašto bi ovo potezao u tekstu o Sirizi.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:20 am

    Kako će Zlatna zora da pokida sledeće izbore..
    Indy

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    Post by Indy Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:08 am

    Kako ja vidim, ima 2 strane u politici danas, uglavnom manje-više nezadovoljna populacija običnih ljudi i "Oni" (neki ih zovu 1%, neki vojno-industrijski kompleks, neki plutokratama, neki gušter-ljudima, whatever...) Syriza je barem za trenutak, koji možda već prolazi, predstavjala ove prve dosta dobro.
    Bluberi

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    Post by Bluberi Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:31 am

    Uveden je u mejnstim levi diskurs. To je najveća pobeda SIRIZE, a za budućnost nezavisno od raspleta u Grčkoj, i najvažnija.
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    Post by Guest Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:48 am

    Slažem se s oba.

    Samo kažem to je moj strah u skladu s onim Benjaminovim aforizmom koji Žižek voli da ponavlja...
    namerna prolaznica

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    Post by namerna prolaznica Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:53 am

    Bluberi wrote:Uveden je u mejnstim levi diskurs. To je najveća pobeda SIRIZE, a za budućnost nezavisno od raspleta u Grčkoj, i najvažnija.
    вала баш.
    питом, уштројен, по мери такозваног модерног света, фотогеничан и секси...


    додуше није мала ствар: кравате су протеране.


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    poz
    www.facebook.com/kucicanamoru
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:14 am

    fernoux-h wrote:
    William Murderface wrote:As it happens, Podemos repudiate the distinction between "Left" and "Right". I do, too. It belongs to the old world of parliamentary politics, which must be destroyed.

    Pošto sam relativno skoro počeo da se bavim Badjuom, može li neko (William) da mi malo približi ovu njegovu ideju. Znam da su u pitanju državne politike vs. politike odozdo, ali i ovo mi je kod njega nejasno, a pogotovo to zašto bi ovo potezao u tekstu o Sirizi.

    nije to. badju zapravo zagovara povratak komunistickoj hipotezi. nazvati sebe levicarem znaci ostati u okvirima onoga sto je prihvatljivo parlamentarnom kapitalizmu (u pitanju je na kraju krajeva raspored sedenja u francuskoj narodnoj skupstini tokom burzuaske revolucije) i za njega je stoga taj termin potpuno rekuperiran. s druge strane badju sebe naziva komunistom (sto inace lazaris i natasa misel iz op odbacuju kao 'ostecenu' rec) i insistira na vernosti toj reci. to ne znaci da nema distinkcije izmedju desnice i levice vec da je sama levica (miteranizam u svim svojim oblicima) danas desno.
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    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:17 am

    Šuvar i varivo wrote:Slažem se s oba.  

    Samo kažem to je moj strah u skladu s onim Benjaminovim aforizmom koji Žižek voli da ponavlja...

    taj indeks propale revolucije moze lako da se ocrta i vaninstitucionalnim putem.
    паће

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    Post by паће Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:05 am

    ostap bender wrote:s druge strane badju sebe naziva komunistom (sto inace lazaris i natasa misel iz op odbacuju kao 'ostecenu' rec)

    У том смислу су и капитализам и још којешта исто тако оштећени. Јер ако је комунизам оштећен стаљинизмом, онда је и капитализам оштећен колонијализмом, хришћанство крсташким ратовима, инквизицијом и колонијализмом, ислам својим колонијализмом и ИСИСом итд итд. Сваки покрет, свака већа идеја, је кад тад имала период кад није могла да одоли мангупима у сопственим редовима и упустила се у швалерацију са тзв. историјским нужностима.


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       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:38 am

    pa badju bi ti rekao da je komunizam pokusaj da se toj steti stane u kraj. s te strane je sovjetski savez bio socijalisticki a badju odbacuje socijalizam. 2009. godine je bas oko toga bila jedna svadja i napad 'socijalista' koji su drzali da je insistiranje na komunizmu kontraproduktivno. usled, jelte, istorijskih nuznosti.

    btw, ja mislim da je pre problem sto se kapitalizam dozivljava kao istorijska nuznost liberalizma.


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    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    паће

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    Post by паће Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:18 am

    ostap bender wrote:
    btw, ja mislim da je pre problem sto se kapitalizam dozivljava kao istorijska nuznost liberalizma.

    Или обратно, да нема другог капитализма осим овог разулабералног. И они врло радо бришу историју и проглашавају себе за почетак и крај.


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       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
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    Post by Guest Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:40 am

    Bluberi wrote:Uveden je u mejnstim levi diskurs. To je najveća pobeda SIRIZE, a za budućnost nezavisno od raspleta u Grčkoj, i najvažnija.

    levica je dobila priliku da udje u ring sa Tajsonom i to se zavrsilo na jedini moguci nacin.
    kakav crni levi diskurs. ovo je kolosalan poraz levice.
    videcemo za par godina, kada jos poraste nezaposlenost u pridavljenoj Grckoj koja je prisiljena da privatizuje sve sto moze, ko ce artikulisati nezadovoljstvo ljudi. jako sumnjam da ce otpor sledeci put doci sa leve strane.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:43 am

    nije jos ovo gotovo. moguce ja da ce nemci resiti da se prave pametni. suvise je stvari ovde u igri.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Indy

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    Post by Indy Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:43 am

    Može i tako da se gleda... Mada mene smara to levica/desnica, niti mislim da odgovara ovom svetu koji sad vajda skoro u celosti poseduje jedno 800 ljudi.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:45 am

    ostap bender wrote:nije jos ovo gotovo. moguce ja da ce nemci resiti da se prave pametni. suvise je stvari ovde u igri.

    to se svelo na "moguce je da ce Schaeuble da se jos malo duri".
    nego jos nisi poceo da cirkas? molim te izljubi mladence za mene i gospodju (izvinite zbog kratke privatizacije topica)
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:54 am

    hocu, hocu. nisam ni stao sa cirkanjem (za moje standarde) otkako sam stigao ovde.


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    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:52 pm

    From the Absurd to the Tragic

    Those who lead Greece and its Left to surrender should be opposed.

    by Stathis Kouvelakis


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije

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