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    Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998)

    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:31 pm

    Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 Snowpiercerswinton01



    O uticajnosti Atlas Shrugged:


    Over the years, Atlas Shrugged has attracted an energetic and committed fan base. Each year the Ayn Rand Institute donates 400,000 copies of works by Ayn Rand, including Atlas Shrugged, to high school students.[9] According to a 1991 survey done for the Library of Congress and the Book of the Month Club, Atlas Shrugged was situated between the Bible and M. Scott Peck's The Road Less Traveled as the book that made the most difference in the lives of 5,000 Book-of-the-Month club members surveyed, with a "large gap existing between the #1 book and the rest of the list".[56] Modern Library's 1998 nonscientific online poll of the 100 best novels of the 20th century[57][58] found Atlas rated #1 although it was not included on the list chosen by the Modern Library board of authors and scholars.[59]



    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:37 pm

    Oke, lik koji igra Tilda je Ayn Rand, Hariss je John Galt (recimo) i šta dalje s tim - likovi u Snowpierceru su zarobljenici Johna Galta i Ayn Rand? Ili mitologije Ayn Rand? Ne kapiram, zaista.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:42 pm

    Pa taj imaginarijum uobličava celu kapitalističku mitoligiju. Kao što je neki drugi oblikovao socijalističku.

    Kad se kod Makavejeva sovjetski klizać zove Vladimir Ilič, onda to nešto znači, kad udari Milenu Dravić pa ona umesto njega vidi Staljina, i to nešto znači.

    To nisu puke filozofske ideje, nego imaginarijumi koji oblikuju društvenu stvarnost miliona ljudi.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:54 pm

    Radagast wrote:
    William Murderface wrote:


    Nisam znao za ovo.



    A ne slažem se ni da je Okraina svoju priču ispričaka bolje. Jednostavno je priča mnogo, mnogo, prostija. Seljaci idu od jednog do drugog krivca za rasprodaju njuhove zemlje. Na kraju stižu do glavnog krivca. ubijaju ga. Vraćaju zemlju.

    Jeste prostija. Takodje je u svom zanru (nadrealno-bajkovitom) uverljivija.


    pa pisao sam o tome na snowpiercer temi. logo voza je zapravo stilizovani logo vajnstajna. mislim da je potpuno moguce citati ga i kao bongov film o holivudu.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:59 pm

    A i sama Ajn Rand je zaravo holivudski proizvod - njena filozofijatm je zapravo kako autsajder zamišlja kapitalizam na osnovu Holivuda.

    To understand how Alissa Rosenbaum created Ayn Rand, we need to trace her itinerary not to pre-revolutionary Russia, which is the mistaken conceit of these biographies, but to her destination upon leaving Soviet Russia in 1926: Hollywood. For where else but in the dream factory could Rand have learned how to make dreams—about America, about capitalism and about herself?
    Even before she was in Hollywood, Rand was of Hollywood. In 1925 alone, she saw 117 movies. It was in movies, Burns says, that Rand "glimpsed America"—and, we might add, developed her enduring sense of narrative form. Once there, she became the subject of her very own Hollywood story. She was discovered by Cecil B. DeMille, who saw her mooning about his studio looking for work. Intrigued by her intense gaze, he gave her a ride in his car and a job as an extra, which she quickly turned into a screenwriting gig. Within a few years her scripts were attracting attention from major players, prompting one newspaper to run a story with the headline Russian Girl Finds End of Rainbow in Hollywood.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:00 pm

    et William Murderface

    Pa dobro, ajde, nisu filozofske ideje, nego imaginarijumi. Ok, i Jon Ho Bong polemiše s tim imaginarijumima. Well, bezveze mi je to.
    Ok, dosta o Snowpierceru, stvarno ne znam više šta da kažem, složićemo se da se ne slažemo. Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 1143415371
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:02 pm

    Pa valjda to radi Okraina, i mnogi drugi filmovi. Nije tu Snowpiercer usamljen sasvim sigurno.

    Ali nadam se da sad uviđaš da je Snowpiercer mnogo konkretniji nego što ti se činilo.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:09 pm

    Okraina radi i mnoge druge stvari osim toga. Vrtimo se u krug.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:13 pm

    Nije problem. Ne pokušavam da te ubedim da je Snowpiercer bolji od Okraine, samo da nije toliko drugačiji koliko ti se to čini, te da je čime se bavi legitimna filmska tema.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:14 pm

    Kad bih hteo da sažmem sve u jednu reč - ono što nedostaje Snowpierceru, a ima Okraina je igra. A to je suština razlike između umetnosti i polemike.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:23 pm

    Okej, oko tog možemo da se ne složimo.

    Ali da se vratimo na temu - kako percipirate politiku Okraine? Pošto tema već jeste politički film.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:24 pm

    Ne razumem.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:25 pm

    Pa šta je zaprvo politika tog filma? Ako ne u smislu zastupanja, ono u smislu sukoba? Šta je političko u ovom filmu?


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:30 pm

    Pa političko je to što se bavi imaginarijumom (kakva reč, jbt) koji je politički - čežnjom za Okobarskom revolucijom.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:37 pm

    Ja moram da priznam da nisam siguran da je tako. Ili da to formulišem drugačije, možda u ovom filmu ima Staljina, ali nisam siguran da ima Lenjina. Činjenica da su junaci veterani Otadžbinskog rata to dodatno potcrtava.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:41 pm

    Pa jes' al' ono - kad gori Moskva na kraju to teško da ima veze s drugim svetskim ratom.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:48 pm

    Da, to je baš dobro urađeno. Ruski Fajt klab.

    Ali, još jedan detalj - nakon što spasu đevušku malađinku iz eksplozije očekivao sam da vidim Panjku sa njom kao suprugom u onim završnim scenama seoske idile, ali je nema. To je idila samo za muškarce.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:49 pm

    Nego šta. Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 1143415371
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:50 pm

    Usput film je stariji od Fight Cluba, mada zanimljiva asocijacija.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:52 pm

    Znam, tim pre je zanimljivo. You met me at a very strange moment of my life, kaže Panjka onoj cici na kraju, u trenutku dok se ispostavlja da su svi ostali članovi družine samo plod njegove mašte... Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 1143415371


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:55 pm

    I selo i grad, sve ode u prekarijat.... Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 1143415371
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:58 pm

    Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 3579118792


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:50 pm

    E, da - evo jednog intervjua s Lucikom, doduše na ruskom, pa ko ume i ima nerava može da pročita. 

    Par stvari:

    -Zašto mislite da ono što se ljudima sviđalo u 1936. godini, može da se sviđa i sad:

    Lucik: Zato što se ništa nije promenilo. To mi kažemo da vreme prolazi. Hasidi kažu drugačije: Mi prolazimo, a vreme stoji u mestu. Ja tako osećam. Ništa se ne dešava. Sve je u redu. Ženama se sviđao nakit pre hiljadu godina, a muškarcima vlast. Tako je i sad.

    - Nisam verovao što vaš film može da potrese bilo koga, a onda sam lično video čoveka koga je vaš film uplašio.

    Lucik: Okraina je nežan, poetičan film. Kako on može bilo koga da uplaši?

    - Vama je nežnost to što vaši heroji dave svoje neprijatelje u ledenoj vodi, lome im rebra motkama i grizu ih zubima?

    Lucik: Oni moraju tako, jer su im sve oteli...
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:22 pm

    It's October Once More: Russian History Comes Full Circle
     

    The Outskirts, directed by Petr Lutsik, is a movie of heroic angles, solemn performances, and declamatory dialogue—as well as a sensational pastiche of early Soviet talkies. The title is cribbed from a 1933 Boris Barnet feature made to celebrate agricultural collectivization, although the mood is more Dovzhenko. Somewhere beyond the Urals, a hardy band of peasants venture out into the wide world. Who sold the farm? How, these long-suffering muzhiks want to know, did they lose "the collective called Homeland"?
    Roaming the steppe, camping in a tent made from their greatcoats, dispensing all manner of earthy peasant bromides, the dogged vigilantes search for the villains who betrayed them. The mode is straight-faced and absurd. The men drag their former chairman from his cabin and—in a spectacle of dispassionate vengeance—dunk him in the icy lake until he joins their band and identifies the "enterpriser" to whom he assigned the collective. This post-Soviet sharpie is packing up his car and family to make his escape when the glum avengers arrive at his doorstep, torturing him while holding his children hostage. Ultimately, Mrs. Enterpriser grabs a gun and shoots one. Increasingly violent (although always distanced), The Outskirts is at once appalling and bleakly humorous.
    Snow is gently falling when the muzhiks arrive in the city, looking for the apparatchik who approved the enterpriser's deal. Suddenly African tribesmen rise out of the grass. It's an old-fashioned montage joke—the peasants are shown impassively watching a motion picture screen—that signals a shift in the movie's temporal references. A slow-moving motorcycle carries the band back into prehistory. "It's like an Egyptian pyramid," they declare of one venerable Moscow skyscraper before building themselves a campfire outside. In some uncanny and ridiculous fashion, the muzhiks are re-embodying the shadows of their forgotten ancestors, just like the movie.
    Snow is gently falling when the muzhiks arrive in the city, looking for the apparatchik who approved the enterpriser's deal. Suddenly African tribesmen rise out of the grass. It's an old-fashioned montage joke—the peasants are shown impassively watching a motion picture screen—that signals a shift in the movie's temporal references. A slow-moving motorcycle carries the band back into prehistory. "It's like an Egyptian pyramid," they declare of one venerable Moscow skyscraper before building themselves a campfire outside. In some uncanny and ridiculous fashion, the muzhiks are re-embodying the shadows of their forgotten ancestors, just like the movie.
    Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 It-s-october-once-more-russian-history-comes-full-circle.1935918.40

    Lutsik's first feature is astonishingly precise in its effects and performances. The black-and-white film stock was specially produced to evoke the movies of the '30s; much of the musical score was swiped from Chapayev (1934). As a pastiche artist, Lutsik recalls Guy Maddin, but his jokes are even drier. Nostalgia cuts two ways. "Now in Russia, every television channel shows the old Soviet movies," the filmmaker told a Western interviewer. "There was a time in my life when you could not see them at all. Today young people, old people, everybody wants to watch them because the emotion is so intense and much more interesting than the new Russian cinema."
    Not surprisingly perhaps, The Outskirts has never been shown on Russian TV; according to the movie's Russian distributor, "they say that it will cause a revolution." Indeed, once the peasants penetrate the corridors of power and come face to face with their gloating new master, the movie takes Russian history full circle. It's October once more, even if the concluding Stalinist cliché of tractors across the land suggests one more unpleasant turn of the dialectic.


    Da ubacim još jedan rivju, dok se ne dešava ništa na topiću - šta Glas seljaka kaže o pobuni seljaka. Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 1143415371
    edit -sredio malo.
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    Post by beatakeshi Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:57 pm

    Meni je ovde "politika" vrlo jednostavno sažeta
    - Me sviđa vam se privatizacija? Evo šta vam je činiti!
    Mislim da tu nema ni Staljina ni Lenjina. Samo akcija. Čak mi se čini da ima više Forda i Hoksa (mada kod njih nije bilo ovakvog silaženja u podrum).
    I da, u politčkom smislu, ovo je vrlo realan film. Kino klub 9: Okraina (1998) - Page 3 1912529702

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