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    Rat u Ukrajini

    Јанош Винету

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    Post by Јанош Винету Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:07 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Kako to "navlacenje Barjaktarom" u praksi izgleda, posto vidim da je to zajednicka tema svih ukrofila diljem domaceg i stranog forumaskog neba?

    Pridje dron sa jedne strane, a brod se onako okrene ka njemu, nagne da ga bolje vidi, isturi guzicu prema obali kako bi ga bolje udarili Neptuni...? To je bojni brod, nema njemu neko paznju da odvuce Barjaktarom, senzori rade pa rade, odbrana od projektila je maltene automatizovana. Prica mi zvuci autenticno koliko i "poslo kajzer Lenjina s dva tovara zlata vozom do Petrograda i eto revolucije".

    Питање је колико мета радар прати и на колико мета може да пуца у исто време. 

    ПВО радар на том броду је могао да прати три мете у исто време. 
    Осматрачки радар је могао више. Довољно је да дигну два дрона и пусте два Нептуна и то је већ 4 мете. Док они прате Бајрактаре Нептун им се примиче.


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    Burundi is an exception among other nations because it is a country which gave God first place, a God who guards and protects from all misfortune.
    Burundi... opskurno udruženje 20ak levičarskih intelektualaca, kojima je fetiš odbrana poniženih i uvredjenih.
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:07 pm

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 21 20220415


    Rusii kindzalom gadjali stab u zgradi arhiva u Nisholjajevu. Mnogo mrtvih savetnika.


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    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


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    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:09 pm

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-crimes-ukraine-cia-director-william-burns-china/

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 21 FQW0GzzVEAc6p3y?format=jpg&name=large


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    Međuopštinski pustolov.

    Zli stolar.
    Notxor

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    Post by Notxor Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:11 pm

    Jok bre. To je studentski dom u Nisopolu. Vidi se more u pozadini.


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      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Notxor

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    Post by Notxor Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:16 pm

    Inače mislim da do nuklearki treba još da se gusla... redom:
    1. NATO je gađao zgradu vlade u BGD. Rusi još nisu u Kijevu.
    2. NATO je gađao zgradu TV, Rusi jok.
    3. NATO je gasio struju kad je hteo. Rusi jok
    4. "Tepih" bombardovanje na Kosovu, nisam bio, kažu da je bilo. Rusi?
    5. US je sa MOAB gađala nešto u Iraku ili Avganistanu, nemam pojma. Rusi nisu probali FOAB, čini mi se.

    tako da... videćemo.


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      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Јанош Винету

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    Post by Јанош Винету Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:20 pm

    Треба им ипак нека функционална инфраструктура како би живот могао да се настави, а не спаљена земља.


    _____
    Burundi is an exception among other nations because it is a country which gave God first place, a God who guards and protects from all misfortune.
    Burundi... opskurno udruženje 20ak levičarskih intelektualaca, kojima je fetiš odbrana poniženih i uvredjenih.
    kapetanm

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    Post by kapetanm Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:28 pm

    Ali Srbija je za NATO pikolo zemlja, Ukrajina je ogromna i Rusi bi morali 3,4 puta više vojske nego do sad da angažuju, a ovi zapeli pa hoće još da se brane
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:32 pm

    Del Cap wrote:
    Ukraine War Is Depleting America’s Arsenal of Democracy
    By Hal Brands | Bloomberg
    Yesterday at 5:47 p.m. EDT


    America is following an “arsenal of democracy” strategy in Ukraine: It has avoided direct intervention against the Russian invaders, while working with allies and partners to provide the Kyiv government with money and guns.

    That strategy, reminiscent of U.S. support for Britain in 1940-41, has worked wonders. Yet as the war reaches a critical stage, with the Russians preparing to consolidate their grip on eastern Ukraine, the arsenal of democracy is being depleted.

    That could cause a fatal shortfall for Ukrainian forces in this conflict, and it is revealing American weaknesses that could be laid bare in the next great-power fight.

    Of all the support the U.S. and its friends have provided Ukraine, arms have mattered the most. Deliveries of drones, antitank and anti-aircraft weapons, ammunition and other capabilities have helped Ukraine wreak havoc on Russian forces even as Moscow has pummeled the country’s industrial base.

    General Mark Milley, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Congress that the West has delivered 60,000 antitank weapons and 25,000 anti-aircraft weapons to Kyiv. The Pentagon is now laying plans to rush additional artillery, coastal defense drones and other materiel to Ukraine. The White House on Wednesday announced a new $800 million package including helicopters and armored personnel carriers.

    But President Joe Biden never planned for a war like this. The assumption was that Russia would quickly conquer much of the country, so the U.S. would be supporting a simmering, low-intensity Ukrainian insurgency. Instead, Ukraine’s successful resistance has led to an ongoing, high-intensity conventional fight, with prodigious consumption of munitions and intense attrition of key military assets.

    Pentagon officials say that Kyiv is blowing through a week’s worth of deliveries of antitank munitions every day. It is also running short of usable aircraft as Russian airstrikes and combat losses take their toll. Ammunition has become scarce in Mariupol and other areas.  

    This is presenting Western countries with a stark choice between pouring more supplies into Ukraine or husbanding finite capabilities they may need for their own defense.

    Germany has declined to transfer tanks to Ukraine on grounds that it simply cannot spare them. Canada quickly ran short on rocket launchers and other equipment that the Ukrainians desperately need. The U.S. has provided one-third of its overall stockpile of Javelin anti-tank missiles. It cannot easily deliver more without leaving its own armories badly depleted — and it may take months or years to significantly ramp up production.

    Before the U.S. entered World War II, President Franklin Roosevelt and his military advisers engaged in intense debates about whether the U.S. should rush weapons to a beleaguered Britain or hang onto them in case America had to defend itself. Biden’s arsenal-of-democracy strategy is reaching a similar inflection point in Ukraine.

    Kyiv will require far more Western support to beat back Russian forces gathering in the east, where relatively open terrain is less favorable to the defense. It will also need more sophisticated weapons, such as tanks and aircraft, to deny Russia a decisive advantage — and perhaps take the offensive if Moscow’s eastern offensive falters. Stout Ukrainian resistance has given Kyiv a reasonable chance of winning this war, but the cost of any victory, in equipment no less than lives, will be astounding.

    For the same reason, the war in Ukraine is a sobering preview of the problems the U.S. itself would face in a conflict against Russia or China. If forced to go to war in Eastern Europe or the Western Pacific, Washington would spend down its stockpiles of missiles, precision-guided munitions and other critical capabilities in days or weeks. It would probably suffer severe losses of tanks, planes, ships and other assets that are sophisticated, costly and hard to replace.

    During World War I, the offensives of 1914 led to “shell famine” as the European combatants exhausted their arsenals. Get ready for “missile famine” if there is a great-power war.

    In the world wars of the last century, America’s unmatched manufacturing base ultimately powered it to victory. But today, replenishing the free world’s arsenal might not be so easy.

    American economic leadership is no longer based primarily on manufacturing. Shortages of machine tools, skilled labor and spare production capacity could slow a wartime rearmament effort. The U.S. can’t quickly scale up production of Stinger missiles for Ukraine, for example, because the workforce needed to do so no longer exists.

    American stockpiles of key weapons are smaller than one might imagine, partly because of production constraints and partly because most of the Pentagon’s roughly $750 billion budget goes to manpower, health care and things other than bullets and bombs. Don’t bet against the world’s leading economy — and all of its democratic allies — in a long war. But don’t think that America would effortlessly produce what it needs to win.

    The problem isn’t insoluble. Greater investments in the defense industrial base and more aggressive purchasing and stockpiling of key munitions can help. The creation of a reserve industrial corps (civilians who have basic peacetime training so they can contribute to wartime production) is worth exploring. Key allies, such as Japan, may be able to help the U.S. surge production in shipbuilding and other areas.

    Small wars typically preview what is to come in bigger wars. The Ukraine conflict is showing what it will take to keep the arsenal of democracy equal to the task.


    Ja vec rekoh jednom, ratovi u buducnosti ce biti totalni, masovni, i vodice se sa T34 i shermanima. Sofisticirana tehnika ce biti negde u pozadini, i koristiti se suzdrzano. Nema tog kapaciteta koji moze masovno da stanca danasnju vojnu tehnologiju. Ni sa kapacitetima iz drugog svetskog rata Amerika to ne bi mogla da radi. Materijal na stranu, moze se iz kuhinje izvuci krdo domacica, i za par nedelja obuciti da sklope mustanga. Da sklope raptora da ga jebes ne moze.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


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    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:33 pm

    Racionalno razmisljajuci - ostalo je jos dosta do nuklearki. Racionalno razmisljajuci - nema nikakvog razloga da Rusija upotrebljava bilo kakvo nuklearno naoruzanje u ratu sa 1 Ukrajinom. Problem je ako oni ovo stvarno ne vide kao rat samo sa Ukrajinom, a i problem je ako oni to, u vezi sa ovim sto kaze LV - vide kao nacin da NE sravnjuju gradove i infrasteukturu. I problem je ako to vide kao nacin da im pogine znatno manje vojnika (Japan 45) - koje je pitanje koliko ih jos imaju bez opste/delimicne mobilizacije - sto im se ne radi.
    kapetanm

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    Post by kapetanm Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:38 pm

    Nekad je u čupavim vremenima bilo sreće pa su velike sile vodile državnici od kalibra. Sada izlapeli Bajden koji jedva razlikuje svetlost od senke, Putin koji je postao psiho u izolaciji i sprema atomski udar, Makron edipovac u raskoraku izmedju izbora i  Džonson realno klovn. Niko tu ni ne koga ne utiče.


    Last edited by kapetanm on Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:39 pm

    Ne diraj mi Jupitera.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


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    Јанош Винету

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    Post by Јанош Винету Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:08 pm

    Летећи Полип wrote:
    Del Cap wrote:


    Ja vec rekoh jednom, ratovi u buducnosti ce biti totalni, masovni, i vodice se sa T34 i shermanima. Sofisticirana tehnika ce biti negde u pozadini, i koristiti se suzdrzano. Nema tog kapaciteta koji moze masovno da stanca danasnju vojnu tehnologiju. Ni sa kapacitetima iz drugog svetskog rata Amerika to ne bi mogla da radi. Materijal na stranu, moze se iz kuhinje izvuci krdo domacica, i za par nedelja obuciti da sklope mustanga. Da sklope raptora da ga jebes ne moze.

    Може, како не може.
    Највећи проблем је заправо мотање каблова. 

    Гледао сам ону фабрику где се праве Томахавци, па кад врте онај Томахавк да провере да случајно нису нешто заборавили унутра, или да ли се није откачило, а на крају га лупају чекићем. Па опет један комад кошта два милиона долара. 



    Све то може да се реши, да се производ модуларизује, и да се само склапа на једном месту, као интегратори. То раде и Ербас и Боинг.


    _____
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    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:12 pm

    Mór Thököly wrote:In my new book, The Bomb: Presidents, Generals, and the Secret History of Nuclear War, I recount a highly classified war game played by the National Security Council late in the Obama administration. Reports of Russia’s “escalate to de-escalate” strategy were emerging. The idea of the game was to test whether this strategy might indeed thwart America’s ability or will to project power in Europe. The scenario went like this: The Russians invade one of the Baltic states; NATO fights back effectively; to reverse the tide, Russia fires a low-yield nuclear weapon at the NATO troops or at a base in Germany where drones, combat planes, and smart bombs were deployed. The question: What do U.S. decision-makers do next?

    The game was first played in an NSC deputies’ meeting, consisting of second-tier officials from the various agencies and military branches. Initially, the generals steered the discussion toward operational details: How many nuclear weapons, and of what type, should the U.S. fire at what targets? Then, Colin Kahl, Vice President Joe Biden’s national security adviser, spoke up. The generals, he said, were missing the big picture. The minute the Russians drop a nuclear bomb, we would face a world-defining moment—the first time an atom bomb had been used in war since 1945. It would be an opportunity to rally the entire world against Russia. If we responded with diplomacy and economic pressure, and by pushing ahead with our conventional advantage, we would isolate and weaken Moscow’s leaders, policies, and military forces. However, if we responded by shooting off some nukes of our own, we would forfeit that advantage and, moreover, normalize the use of nuclear weapons.


    The generals were caught off guard. They knew of the long-standing debate over whether the U.S. should be the first to use nuclear weapons in response to a conventional attack, but it seemed perverse to consider using conventional weapons in response to a nuclear attack. A few hours of discussion ensued, examining Kahl’s political challenge, NATO’s conventional military strength, the puzzle of which targets to hit with nuclear weapons (none made much sense), and whether a nuclear response would end the war any sooner or more victoriously than a conventional response (which didn’t seem likely). In the end, a consensus formed that, at least as a first step, the U.S. should respond with continued conventional military operations.


    Tekst iz feb 2020

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/02/low-yield-warhead-nuclear-weapons-navy-trident-submarines.html

    prošireno odvraćanje propo
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:19 pm

    Јанош Винету wrote:
    Може, како не може.
    Највећи проблем је заправо мотање каблова. 

    Гледао сам ону фабрику где се праве Томахавци, па кад врте онај Томахавк да провере да случајно нису нешто заборавили унутра, или да ли се није откачило, а на крају га лупају чекићем. Па опет један комад кошта два милиона долара. 



    Све то може да се реши, да се производ модуларизује, и да се само склапа на једном месту, као интегратори. То раде и Ербас и Боинг.

    Pa moze, ali po cenu kvaliteta. A u tome je i zvrcka. Ne moze da se pravi masovno, a sa sofisticiranom tehnologijom, skupim materijalima, i kvalifikovanim majstorima. Ili kvalitet ili masovnost.


    _____
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    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:35 pm

    Ovo sa bagerima u Katinskoj sumi je, pa ono - lol. Da li ti ljudi imaju samosvesti sta rade.


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    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:46 pm

    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:21 pm

    "Они су тако креативни са овом технологијом" - суштина текста и става западне штампе о својим пуленима.
    паће

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    Post by паће Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:34 pm

    Sotir wrote:"Они су тако креативни са овом технологијом" - суштина текста и става западне штампе о својим пуленима.

    „Па маму вам јебем гуланферску, вучете ту по сто хиљада долара годишње и само чешете јајца... како то да се нико од вас овога није сетио, а? И ви сте ми неки стручњаци за специјални рат и сајко опс!“


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       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:55 pm

    (CNN) Secretary of State Antony Blinken told European allies that the United States believes the Russian war in Ukraine could last through the end of 2022, two European officials told CNN, as US and European officials have increasingly assessed that there is no short-term end in sight to the conflict.

    Many of the officials who spoke with CNN stressed that it is hard to predict exactly how long the war could go on, but several officials said that there are no indications that Russian President Vladimir Putin's ultimate goals have changed, and it is unlikely he will pursue diplomatic negotiations unless faced with military defeat.

    The thinking that this could be a long-term conflict represents a marked shift from the early days of the war, when Russia was expected to quickly take the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, and underscores Moscow's failures on the battlefield.

    The longer the war goes on, the more brutal the humanitarian toll on the people of Ukraine. And while officials stressed there is likely to be continued international resolve to provide high levels of support to Ukraine, they acknowledged there may be very real practical challenges regarding weaponry that will need to be dealt with as the war wages on.

    National security adviser Jake Sullivan said Thursday that the fighting in Ukraine is likely to be "protracted," and will go on "for months or even longer."
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:48 pm

    What a decade, huh?
    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:53 pm

    Руске снаге ухватиле неког типа и испитују га:
    - Која ти је шифра за телефон?
    - 1488.
    - Ти си неки наци?
    - Нисам више.
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:04 pm

    В Севастополе на церемонию прощания с крейсером «Москва» принесли траурный венок с надписью «кораблю и морякам»

    В Севастополе состоялась церемония прощания с затонувшим 14 апреля крейсером «Москва». Видео с церемонии опубликовал ТАСС.

    К памятнику в честь 300-летия Российского флота в Севастополе принесли траурный венок с черной лентой, на которой написано «Крейсер "Москва". Кораблю и морякам».

    Ранее Минобороны РФ утвержало, что крейсер затонул при буксировке в порт во время шторма, а экипаж был эвакуирован. При этом власти Украины заявили, что по «Москве» ударили ракеты «Нептун».

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    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:35 pm



    https://www.facebook.com/irakli.komaxidze/posts/5041998675913338
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Apr 15, 2022 8:39 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Fri Apr 15, 2022 9:52 pm

    Ja još uvek ne verujem šta se dogodilo.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”

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