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    Zločini u OŠ Vladislav Ribnikar i Mladenovcu

    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Oct 11, 2024 1:02 am


    Hegel's fundamental rule is that "objective" excess (the direct reign of abstract universality which imposes its law "mechanically", with utter disregard for the concerned subject caught in its web) is always supplemented by the "subjective" excess (the irregular, arbitrary exercise of whims). An exemplary case of this interdependence is provided by Balibar, who distinguishes two opposite but complementary modes of excessive violence: the "ultra-objective" ("structural") violence that is inherent in the social conditions of global capitalism (the "automatic" creation of excluded and dispensable individuals, from the homeless to the unemployed), and the "ultra-subjective" violence of newly emerging ethnic and/or religious (in short: racist) "fundamentalisms." This "excessive" and "groundless" violence involves its own mode of knowledge, that of impotent cynical reflection - back to our example of Id-Evil, of a skinhead beating up foreigners: when really pressed for the reasons for his violence, and if capable of minimal theoretical reflection, he will suddenly start to talk like social workers, sociologists and social psychologists, quoting diminished social mobility, rising insecurity, the disintegration of paternal authority, the lack of maternal love in his early childhood... in short, he will provide a more or less precise psycho-sociological account of his acts so dear to enlightened liberals eager to "understand" the violent youth as a tragic victim of their social and familial conditions. The standard enlightened formula of the efficiency of the "critique of ideology" from Plato onwards ("they are doing it, because they do not know what they are doing," i.e. knowledge is in itself liberating, when the erring subject reflects upon what he is doing, he will no longer be doing it) is here turned around: the violent skinhead "knows very well what he is doing, but he is nonetheless doing it." The symbolically efficient knowledge embedded in the subject's effective social praxis disintegrates into, on the one hand, excessive "irrational" violence with no ideologico-political foundation and, on the other hand, impotent external reflection that leaves the subject's acts intact. In the guise of this cynicallly-impotent reflecting skinhead who, with an ironic smile, explains to the perplexed journalist the roots of his senselessly violent behavior, the enlightened tolerant multiculturalist bent on "understanding" forms of excessive violence gets his own message in its inverted, true form - in short, as Lacan would have put it, at this point, the communication between him and the "object" of his study, the intolerant skinhead, is thoroughly successful


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    паће

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    Post by паће Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:17 am

    boomer crook wrote:pa da. darien leader pise da je problem sto danas pacijenti znaju kako da predstave svoje simptme. svesni sta se d njih ocekuje u analizi i tako se ponasaju.

    Подсећа ме на мој хипотетички случај из студентских дана, кад ми је пало на ум да је могао да се појави умишљени пацијент код чика Фројда, који је до тог тренутка написао тек три књиге. Пацијент је те три књиге прочитао и смислио нову болест, и почео да долази на сеансе и на њима глуми ту болест. Фројд истражује на основу тога, смишља нову баражу питања да је детектује код других, и нуто чуда, то му и успева. Историја сече кривину...

    (сад ми паде на ум да се то можда и десило...)


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       cousin for roasting the rakija
       зрењанинска клима је идеална - кад има блата, нема прашине, кад има прашине, нема снега, а кад има снега нема блата.
    bemty

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    Post by bemty Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:39 am



    _____
    Warning: may contain irony.
    avatar

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    Post by MNE Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:20 am

    beatakeshi wrote:Da, kao da je odlučio da likvidira roditelje.
    pa to je to, on zna dobro da ne može biti osuđen i da može da svali sve na sebe kako bi izvukao roditelje, ali on hoće da njegovi roditelji idu što duže u zatvor, prosto jer ih mrzi 

    egoistična majka dominantna u njegovom odgoju i otac koji nedostatak toga kompenzuje oružjem i izigravanjem muškosti, što se sve tragično prevalilo na dijete
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri Oct 11, 2024 11:32 am

    bemty wrote:

    Zločini u OŠ Vladislav Ribnikar i Mladenovcu - Page 19 3579118792 Zločini u OŠ Vladislav Ribnikar i Mladenovcu - Page 19 3579118792 Zločini u OŠ Vladislav Ribnikar i Mladenovcu - Page 19 3579118792


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    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Daï Djakman Faré

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    Post by Daï Djakman Faré Fri Oct 11, 2024 2:11 pm

    Erős Pista wrote:

    Hegel's fundamental rule is that "objective" excess (the direct reign of abstract universality which imposes its law "mechanically", with utter disregard for the concerned subject caught in its web) is always supplemented by the "subjective" excess (the irregular, arbitrary exercise of whims). An exemplary case of this interdependence is provided by Balibar, who distinguishes two opposite but complementary modes of excessive violence: the "ultra-objective" ("structural") violence that is inherent in the social conditions of global capitalism (the "automatic" creation of excluded and dispensable individuals, from the homeless to the unemployed), and the "ultra-subjective" violence of newly emerging ethnic and/or religious (in short: racist) "fundamentalisms." This "excessive" and "groundless" violence involves its own mode of knowledge, that of impotent cynical reflection - back to our example of Id-Evil, of a skinhead beating up foreigners: when really pressed for the reasons for his violence, and if capable of minimal theoretical reflection, he will suddenly start to talk like social workers, sociologists and social psychologists, quoting diminished social mobility, rising insecurity, the disintegration of paternal authority, the lack of maternal love in his early childhood... in short, he will provide a more or less precise psycho-sociological account of his acts so dear to enlightened liberals eager to "understand" the violent youth as a tragic victim of their social and familial conditions. The standard enlightened formula of the efficiency of the "critique of ideology" from Plato onwards ("they are doing it, because they do not know what they are doing," i.e. knowledge is in itself liberating, when the erring subject reflects upon what he is doing, he will no longer be doing it) is here turned around: the violent skinhead "knows very well what he is doing, but he is nonetheless doing it." The symbolically efficient knowledge embedded in the subject's effective social praxis disintegrates into, on the one hand, excessive "irrational" violence with no ideologico-political foundation and, on the other hand, impotent external reflection that leaves the subject's acts intact. In the guise of this cynicallly-impotent reflecting skinhead who, with an ironic smile, explains to the perplexed journalist the roots of his senselessly violent behavior, the enlightened tolerant multiculturalist bent on "understanding" forms of excessive violence gets his own message in its inverted, true form - in short, as Lacan would have put it, at this point, the communication between him and the "object" of his study, the intolerant skinhead, is thoroughly successful
    thanks Zločini u OŠ Vladislav Ribnikar i Mladenovcu - Page 19 903208043


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    i would like to talk here about The Last of Us on HBO... and yeah, yeah i know.. the world is burning but lets just all sit and talk about television. again - what else are we doing with ourselves ? we are not creating any militias. but my god we still have the content. appraising content is the american modus vivendi.. that's why we are here for. to absorb the content and then render some sort of a judgment on content. because there is a buried hope that if enough people have the right opinion about the content - the content will get better which will then flow to our structures and make the world a better place
    Јанош Винету

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    Post by Јанош Винету Fri Oct 11, 2024 2:18 pm

    Erős Pista wrote:

    Hegel's fundamental rule is that "objective" excess (the direct reign of abstract universality which imposes its law "mechanically", with utter disregard for the concerned subject caught in its web) is always supplemented by the "subjective" excess (the irregular, arbitrary exercise of whims). An exemplary case of this interdependence is provided by Balibar, who distinguishes two opposite but complementary modes of excessive violence: the "ultra-objective" ("structural") violence that is inherent in the social conditions of global capitalism (the "automatic" creation of excluded and dispensable individuals, from the homeless to the unemployed), and the "ultra-subjective" violence of newly emerging ethnic and/or religious (in short: racist) "fundamentalisms." This "excessive" and "groundless" violence involves its own mode of knowledge, that of impotent cynical reflection - back to our example of Id-Evil, of a skinhead beating up foreigners: when really pressed for the reasons for his violence, and if capable of minimal theoretical reflection, he will suddenly start to talk like social workers, sociologists and social psychologists, quoting diminished social mobility, rising insecurity, the disintegration of paternal authority, the lack of maternal love in his early childhood... in short, he will provide a more or less precise psycho-sociological account of his acts so dear to enlightened liberals eager to "understand" the violent youth as a tragic victim of their social and familial conditions. The standard enlightened formula of the efficiency of the "critique of ideology" from Plato onwards ("they are doing it, because they do not know what they are doing," i.e. knowledge is in itself liberating, when the erring subject reflects upon what he is doing, he will no longer be doing it) is here turned around: the violent skinhead "knows very well what he is doing, but he is nonetheless doing it." The symbolically efficient knowledge embedded in the subject's effective social praxis disintegrates into, on the one hand, excessive "irrational" violence with no ideologico-political foundation and, on the other hand, impotent external reflection that leaves the subject's acts intact. In the guise of this cynicallly-impotent reflecting skinhead who, with an ironic smile, explains to the perplexed journalist the roots of his senselessly violent behavior, the enlightened tolerant multiculturalist bent on "understanding" forms of excessive violence gets his own message in its inverted, true form - in short, as Lacan would have put it, at this point, the communication between him and the "object" of his study, the intolerant skinhead, is thoroughly successful


    bemty wrote:

    Једна слика хиљаду речи!


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    Burundi is an exception among other nations because it is a country which gave God first place, a God who guards and protects from all misfortune.
    Burundi... opskurno udruženje 20ak levičarskih intelektualaca, kojima je fetiš odbrana poniženih i uvredjenih.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri Oct 11, 2024 3:26 pm



    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    bemty

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    Post by bemty Fri Oct 11, 2024 3:58 pm

    tako i ja danas pevam ceo dan Zločini u OŠ Vladislav Ribnikar i Mladenovcu - Page 19 286371741

    (bonus: i ja nosim zenske gace!)


    _____
    Warning: may contain irony.
    bemty

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    Post by bemty Fri Oct 11, 2024 4:02 pm

    razmisljam, ako je mali u terapiji, normalno je da se prvo temeljno provede vreme na raznim uticajima na njega, da kroz sopstveni primer uoci i apsorbuje koliko drugi ljudi uticu na nas, da pocne da razvija dubinsku empatiju prema sebi ne bi li u nekoj kasnijoj fazi poceo da to okrece i prema drugima. sto je u totalnom raskoraku sa sudskim procesom, koji verovatno najvise procenjuje, pored krivice, stepen rizika za ponavljanje prekrsaja. 'majka je htela da u svemu budem najbolji pa sam zato pobio pola razreda' u tom kontekstu je kao da vristi zatvorite me zauvek. (znam, znam, nije sudjenje njemu, samo pratim inicijalni tok misli kad nisam znala taj detalj)


    _____
    Warning: may contain irony.
    čika Condor

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    Post by čika Condor Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:02 pm

    Viši sud u Beogradu produžio je za još tri meseca produžio je meru zabrane prilaska, sastajanja i komunikacije Miljani Kecmanović sa svojim sinom, maloletnim ubicom, koji je 3. maja prošle godine u OŠ "Vladislav Ribnikar" ubio devet vršnjaka i čuvara škole.

    Zanima me pravni osnov ovoga? Pretpostavljam da je dečak-ubica ovde tretiran kao svedok u procesu protiv svoje majke, ali zar ovo takođe ne predstavlja samo po sebi uticaj na svedoka, ovog puta od strane države? Zašto se uopšte tretira kao svedok kada je po definiciji u konfliktu interesa?
    One Eyed Bob

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    Post by One Eyed Bob Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:04 pm

    Za to pitanje nam treba pravi, živi krivičar, a mislim da takvog nemamo na forumu. Svakako mislim da nema procesnih nepravilnosti jer okrivljeni nisu naivčine već ljudi koji umeju da se brane, ali me zanima osnov za meru.


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    Gdje punac drži pive?
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    Post by MNE Mon Oct 14, 2024 10:08 pm

    ovo mogu da mu produžavaju do završetka suđenja, a podrazumijeva se da država neće uticati na svjedoka
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Mon Oct 14, 2024 11:11 pm

    bemty wrote:razmisljam, ako je mali u terapiji, normalno je da se prvo temeljno provede vreme na raznim uticajima na njega, da kroz sopstveni primer uoci i apsorbuje koliko drugi ljudi uticu na nas, da pocne da razvija dubinsku empatiju prema sebi ne bi li u nekoj kasnijoj fazi poceo da to okrece i prema drugima. sto je u totalnom raskoraku sa sudskim procesom, koji verovatno najvise procenjuje, pored krivice, stepen rizika za ponavljanje prekrsaja. 'majka je htela da u svemu budem najbolji pa sam zato pobio pola razreda' u tom kontekstu je kao da vristi zatvorite me zauvek. (znam, znam, nije sudjenje njemu, samo pratim inicijalni tok misli kad nisam znala taj detalj)

    tesko je da se covek ne navuce na nagadjanje (koje je u mom slucaju i pride amatersko) ali mislim da uopste niije slucajno sto su zrtve gotovo iskljucivo devojcice.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    kapetanm

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    Post by kapetanm Yesterday at 1:18 am

    čika Condor wrote:
    [size=44]Viši sud u Beogradu produžio je za još tri meseca produžio je meru zabrane prilaska, sastajanja i komunikacije Miljani Kecmanović sa svojim sinom, maloletnim ubicom, koji je 3. maja prošle godine u OŠ "Vladislav Ribnikar" ubio devet vršnjaka i čuvara škole.[/size]

    Zanima me pravni osnov ovoga? Pretpostavljam da je dečak-ubica ovde tretiran kao svedok u procesu protiv svoje majke, ali zar ovo takođe ne predstavlja samo po sebi uticaj na svedoka, ovog puta od strane države? Zašto se uopšte tretira kao svedok kada je po definiciji u konfliktu interesa?
    Nije dužan da svedoči - tražio je. No kako će se u postupku tretirati iskaz deliktno nesposobnog i maloumnog svedoka protiv onih koji bi trebalo da mu budu zastupnici, ne znam. Sud bi njegove izjave mogao samo da primi k znanju, da budu upućujuće, a ne presudu da zasniva na tome, inače pada.
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    Post by MNE Yesterday at 9:58 am

    boomer crook wrote:
    bemty wrote:razmisljam, ako je mali u terapiji, normalno je da se prvo temeljno provede vreme na raznim uticajima na njega, da kroz sopstveni primer uoci i apsorbuje koliko drugi ljudi uticu na nas, da pocne da razvija dubinsku empatiju prema sebi ne bi li u nekoj kasnijoj fazi poceo da to okrece i prema drugima. sto je u totalnom raskoraku sa sudskim procesom, koji verovatno najvise procenjuje, pored krivice, stepen rizika za ponavljanje prekrsaja. 'majka je htela da u svemu budem najbolji pa sam zato pobio pola razreda' u tom kontekstu je kao da vristi zatvorite me zauvek. (znam, znam, nije sudjenje njemu, samo pratim inicijalni tok misli kad nisam znala taj detalj)

    tesko je da se covek ne navuce na nagadjanje (koje je u mom slucaju i pride amatersko) ali mislim da uopste niije slucajno sto su zrtve gotovo iskljucivo devojcice.
    jedna djevojčica je izjavila da je nanišao pa je sklonio nišan sa nje, valjda zato što ga nije zadirkivala pretraži naći ćeš izjavu
    паће

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    Post by паће Yesterday at 10:09 am

    MNE wrote:
    boomer crook wrote:

    tesko je da se covek ne navuce na nagadjanje (koje je u mom slucaju i pride amatersko) ali mislim da uopste niije slucajno sto su zrtve gotovo iskljucivo devojcice.
    jedna djevojčica je izjavila da je nanišao pa je sklonio nišan sa nje, valjda zato što ga nije zadirkivala pretraži naći ćeš izjavu

    И ја овако матор па се сећам тога.


    _____
       cousin for roasting the rakija
       зрењанинска клима је идеална - кад има блата, нема прашине, кад има прашине, нема снега, а кад има снега нема блата.
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Yesterday at 10:24 am

    Ma mi nikada necemo imati ozbiljne analize, ili raspravu na ovu temu, izuzev jalovog psihoanaliziranja ubice i njegovih roditelja. Ovo je stvar sredine, u kojoj je ovaj mali bio krvozedniji primerak. Ali ajde sad ti ceprkaj po sredini, ako ta sredina ukljucuje i tu pobijenu decu, kao i njihove roditelje, koji su sada postali mala moralna sila u drustvu.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Yesterday at 11:16 am

    nesrazmera je takva da ne moze biti slucajna. a o zlim devojcicama koje diraju psihopatu koji ih onda pobije zaista ne bih. 

    mislim da niste svesni sta su ocekivanja gomile deckica danas od zenskog sveta i kakve ideje maskuliniteta im se muvaju po glavi. ovo ima veze sa ribnikarom samo utoliko sto devojcice iz vise srednje klase i dalje mogu da imaju drugacije aspiracione modele. 

    da ne ulazim u to da se ne izlazem zdravorazumizmu. nisam danas in the mood.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
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    Post by MNE Yesterday at 11:22 am

    ama klinac ima 13 god kakav maskulinitet, nesrazmjera je takva vjerovatno jer su ovi muški brže zbrisali ili se sakrili
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Yesterday at 11:57 am

    Svakako ima i toga, ali ljudi gube iz vida onaj detalj da su svi oni bili i ambiciozni ucenici, i da ih je on video kao konkurenciju.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    Daï Djakman Faré

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    Post by Daï Djakman Faré Yesterday at 12:51 pm

    boomer crook wrote:nesrazmera je takva da ne moze biti slucajna. a o zlim devojcicama koje diraju psihopatu koji ih onda pobije zaista ne bih. 

    mislim da niste svesni sta su ocekivanja gomile deckica danas od zenskog sveta i kakve ideje maskuliniteta im se muvaju po glavi. ovo ima veze sa ribnikarom samo utoliko sto devojcice iz vise srednje klase i dalje mogu da imaju drugacije aspiracione modele. 

    da ne ulazim u to da se ne izlazem zdravorazumizmu. nisam danas in the mood.
    na orginalnom 'spisku' od 15 dece je odnos bio 8-7 u odnos decaka. ali on je stvarno je pucao na 1 decaka i 5 devojcica sa spiska i jos pucao na 1 decaka i 6 devojcica van spiska. devojcice su kao grupa overreprezentovane kao % pucanih po spisku i kao % pucanih van spiska.

    tu bi nam pomoglo kad bi smo znali ko je u kom odeljenju sa originalnog spiska a to ne znamo.


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    i would like to talk here about The Last of Us on HBO... and yeah, yeah i know.. the world is burning but lets just all sit and talk about television. again - what else are we doing with ourselves ? we are not creating any militias. but my god we still have the content. appraising content is the american modus vivendi.. that's why we are here for. to absorb the content and then render some sort of a judgment on content. because there is a buried hope that if enough people have the right opinion about the content - the content will get better which will then flow to our structures and make the world a better place
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Yesterday at 1:13 pm

    boomer crook wrote:pa da. darien leader pise da je problem sto danas pacijenti znaju kako da predstave svoje simptme. svesni sta se d njih ocekuje u analizi i tako se ponasaju.


    U ovom slucaju, to vazi i za roditelje zrtava. Da se razumemo, ne umanjujem traumu tih ljudi, ali upadljivo je koliko performativnog tu ima. Pri cemu je upadljiv kontrast izmedju ponasanja roditelja iz ribnikara, i ponasanja rodielja iz dubone.
    паће

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    Post by паће Yesterday at 1:17 pm

    То прибегавање медицинском наративу ме, у ствари, ни не чуди. Ти људи немају други језички алат да искажу шта осећају, а да притом избегну да открију превише о себи. То је језик којим могу да то искажу а да се не опеку.


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       cousin for roasting the rakija
       зрењанинска клима је идеална - кад има блата, нема прашине, кад има прашине, нема снега, а кад има снега нема блата.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Yesterday at 1:21 pm

    meni je neverovatno da je taj odnos tako disproporcionalan. to sta je ovom malom kretenu bilo u glavni a cega ni on nije bio svestan je nesto potpuno drugo.


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    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started

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