Rat u Ukrajini

MNE wrote:a i gdje je odgovornost ukrajinske kontrole leta koja je znala da je par dana prije toga tuda oboren ukrajinski transportni avion na sličnoj visini

Filipenko wrote:Dobro, i ti sada mislis da zbog toga sto je neko s radoscu objavio da je oboren avion (pri cemu i nije znao tacno o kom se avionu radi) njega treba na robiju? Gde je tacno njegova krivica, je li on ispalio raketu na avion ili naredio da se ispali? Mislim, helou, zona ratnih dejstava je u pitanju.

Ovde su ljudi poprilicno hagovani i pogubili su koncepte pravosudja u korist nekih imaginarnih teorija o vrednostima. Tako sada nije bitno da li je neko kriv za nesto, bitno je samo da se ispale osude, sa pricom da ce zrtve dobiti pravdu ili da ce pravda biti zadovoljena.

Cousin Billy wrote:Nije nigde, osim ako ne misliš da je trebalo da Buk raketi odrede drugačiji koridor.

- Bio je veliki pritisak na Poljsku da objavi da je u pitanju napad Rusije, to je rekao premijer i to bi značilo potpuno drugačiju dinamiku dešavanja kod nas i u svetu - rekao je Arkadijuš Mularčik, zamenik ministra spoljnih poslova Poljske u emisiji Signali dana.

- Była wielka presja na Polskę, żeby przyznać, że był to atak Rosji, tak powiedział premier, to oznaczałoby zupełnie inną dynamikę wydarzeń w naszym kraju i na świecie - powiedział w #SygnałyDnia Arkadiusz Mularczyk, wiceszef @MSZ_RP. https://t.co/YfUs33Rk3R

— Jedynka – Program 1 Polskiego Radia (@RadiowaJedynka) November 17, 2022

Jack Palance wrote:Ukrajinci izgleda ne misle da sad stanu na Dnjepru. Neki su već na drugoj strani.

9 years ago Euromaidan triggered the last cycle of the post-Soviet crisis process that culminated in the invasion of Ukraine. The dynamics and outcomes of this revolution, violence, the role of right and left were the main topic of my studies these years. Most important below

— Volodymyr Ishchenko (@Volod_Ishchenko) November 21, 2022

The invasion of Ukraine is the escalation of the crisis on a higher level of violence. "The conflict now being resolved in Ukraine by tanks, artillery, and rockets is the same conflict that police batons have suppressed in Belarus and Russia itself." https://t.co/1hnL31EOv9

— Volodymyr Ishchenko (@Volod_Ishchenko) November 21, 2022

fikret selimbašić wrote:

MNE wrote:a i gdje je odgovornost ukrajinske kontrole leta koja je znala da je par dana prije toga tuda oboren ukrajinski transportni avion na sličnoj visini

Ma, farsa, holandski tužioci nisu naveli motiv zbog kog bi Rusi pucali na avion.

Prvo je na sve načine pokušano da se obaranje svali na ukrajinsku PVO. Kad su svi ruski dokazi o tome razbucani, kad se ispostavilo da se sam Strelkov pohvalio obaranjem aviona i da je brisanje objave u kojoj je to uradio bilo beskorisno, onda se počelo sa bacanjem krivice na ukrajinsku i evropsku kontrolu leta.

Danas sam kao proruski argument vidio i ovo potezanje njihovog motiva za obranje, pa motiv je bio što su mislili da se radi o ukrajinskom avionu, sam Strelkove je čak i naveo tip aviona koji su oborili.

QUEST: In G7 leaders' meetings, did you find different countries were to quote a predecessor of yours, "Don't go wobbly."

JOHNSON: This thing was a huge shock, right? We were all taken, I mean, we could see the Russian battalion tactical groups massing, but different countries had very different perspectives. I mean, being no doubt that the French were in denial right up to the last moment.

The Germans for all sorts of sound economic reasons really didn't want it to -- you know, they were -- I'll tell you a terrible thing. The German view was at one stage that if it was going to happen, which would be a disaster, then it were better for the whole thing to be over quickly and for Ukraine to fold.

And I couldn't support that. You know, I thought that was a disastrous way of looking at it. But I can understand why they thought and felt as they did.

I never the Italians, again, massively dependent on Russian hydrocarbons at one stage simply saying, you know, that they would be unable to support the position we were taking.

But then what happened was, everybody -- Germans, French, Italians, everybody, Joe Biden, saw that there was simply no option, because you couldn't negotiate with this guy. That's the key point. That's where the logic all breaks down when people called for a negotiated solution. There is no deal. He's not offering one. He doesn't even want one --

QUEST: Which takes me to --

JOHNSON: And Zelenskyy isn't in a position to do one. His people wouldn't let him.

Erős Pista wrote:Pricalo se to i ranije, mada ne sa ovako visokog mesta.

Doduse, treba imati u vidu i da je to Dzonson.