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    Srbija i Ukrajina

    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:01 pm

    Nije u tome poenta nego eto nismo bas ratovali sami.

    Mada ne kazem, pomogli su nam kao u WW1 kada su cuvali ledja srpskoj vojsci tako sto su im Austrijanci prvog dana rata zauzeli Pljevlja, koja nisu ni pokusali da povrate dok nismo poslali 20 hiljada vojnika da povrate grad za njih, uzeli Skadar tako sto smo mi poslali vojsku sa artiljerijom da im zauzme Skadar, i konacno stitili vojsku koja se povlacila preko Albanije na Mojkovcu, mesec dana nakon sto se vojska povukla tuda dok se vojska tada ukrcavala na ladje francuske italijanske na jugu Albanije, da bi sledeceg dana valjda iz tolike zelje da stite odstupnicu srpskoj vojsci kapitulirali.

    Treba li reci da smo u golgoti preko Albanije izgubili 60 hiljada dusa, pod svakodnevnim napadima divljih albanskih plemena, moreni gladju, zedju i zimom, dok smo u povlacenju preko prijateljske Crne Gore, bratske zemlje gde nas vole, gde su sa nama kazu delili i hranu i vodu, izgubili 45 hiljada ljudi?
    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:08 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Nije u tome poenta nego eto nismo bas ratovali sami.

    Mada ne kazem, pomogli su nam kao u WW1 kada su cuvali ledja srpskoj vojsci tako sto su im Austrijanci prvog dana rata zauzeli Pljevlja, koja nisu ni pokusali da povrate dok nismo poslali 20 hiljada vojnika da povrate grad za njih, uzeli Skadar tako sto smo mi poslali vojsku sa artiljerijom da im zauzme Skadar, i konacno stitili vojsku koja se povlacila preko Albanije na Mojkovcu, mesec dana nakon sto se vojska povukla tuda dok se vojska tada ukrcavala na ladje francuske italijanske na jugu Albanije, da bi sledeceg dana valjda iz tolike zelje da stite odstupnicu srpskoj vojsci kapitulirali.

    Treba li reci da smo u golgoti preko Albanije izgubili 60 hiljada dusa, pod svakodnevnim napadima divljih albanskih plemena, moreni gladju, zedju i zimom, dok smo u povlacenju preko prijateljske Crne Gore, bratske zemlje gde nas vole, gde su sa nama kazu delili i hranu i vodu, izgubili 45 hiljada ljudi?

    Crnogorci su bili na Bregalnici, Ličani nisu Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 653816692


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    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sat Jul 02, 2022 8:39 pm

    Vrlo upitno. No, da parafraziram Stjepana Radica, da nam kazu koliko kosta ucesce tih 12 hiljada vojnika i 240 poginulih i umrlih od kolere, pa da prebijemo to sa nasima poginulim u i oko Crne Gore, oslobadjanjem od Austrije, pripajanjem silnih primorskih teritorija nakon WW1, ulaganjima u Crnu Goru, nasim troskovima za prijem svih Crnogoraca na podrucju Srbije od 1918. naovamo, zajmovima za obnovu, saniranje od zemljotresa, stetu uzrokovanu od strane crnogorskih kriminalaca od 1918. do danas, pa da se pogledamo u oci, moze i preko nisana.

    Licani su bili na Ceru, Kolubari, Solunskom frontu... Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 2952840586
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:14 pm

    1 opinjon


    https://www.bostonherald.com/2022/07/02/tadic-wests-failures-over-territorial-integrity-set-stage-for-ukraine/amp/

    Tadic: West’s failures over territorial integrity set stage for Ukraine
    Boris Tadic
    July 2, 2022 at 12:10 a.m.

    The conflict over Ukraine is exposing an inconsistency at the heart of Western foreign policy.

    Left unaddressed, it poses as strong a threat to international relations as any Russian aggression. It’s not the extent to which democratic nations should be reliant on Russia’s fossil fuels, though confusion reigns here too. Rather, the issue is territorial integrity.

    When it comes to Ukraine, today the West’s position is that territorial integrity is sacrosanct. Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea are non-negotiable as parts of Ukraine and must be returned by Russia: Their legally, UN-recognized status demands it. Similarly for Bosnia and Herzegovina in the Balkans: The country’s borders are judged, rightly, to be immutable.

    Yet for other nations, such clarity appears not to apply. For instance, Azerbaijan’s sovereign borders are legally recognized, thanks to multiple UN Security Council resolutions which the U.S. and Europe wholeheartedly supported. Yet in the U.S. Congress, ethnic-Armenian separatists are described as “friends and allies,” even after their vocal, public support for the pro-Russian rebels of Donetsk and Luhansk.

    French politicians go further, visiting for photo-ops with separatist leaders.
    While backing Azerbaijan’s sovereign borders at the UN, American and French diplomats say in the same breath that talks are necessary and the right to territorial self-determination must be considered. How this circle can be squared is not clear.

    For still other states, the policy is turned upside down. When president of Serbia, I led our diplomatic campaign to counter destabilizing moves to unilaterally alter the status of Kosovo and Metohija — then, as now, unrecognized as a state under international law. Then, as now, Serbia’s territorial integrity and the views of its citizens — who remain resolutely attached to their nation’s heartland and identity — were, apparently, irrelevant. And yet the territorial integrity of Serbia’s next-door neighbor Bosnia is declared absolute.

    As the principle of UN member states’ territorial integrity is enshrined in the UN Charter, in 2010 a non-binding advisory opinion was sought from the UN’s International Court of Justice to the question “whether Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence is in accordance with international law.” The answer, essentially, was to avoid one — the response allowing different, arbitrary interpretations according to the interests of competing world powers.

    At the time, I warned setting such a precedent  would be a justification for others to ignite hotspots worldwide. I warned about Ukraine. Indeed, today, that advisory opinion has emboldened Russia to justify its slow takeover of the country’s east and south. Before them, Georgia’s breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia were recognized by Russia as independent states. But this recognition only occurred after the West first recognized Kosovo, opening the door and showing them the way.

    Now in Ukraine, with both sides dug in, the war risks festering, needlessly consuming countless more lives, threatening a prolonged energy crisis, and engendering famines across the world.

    The ramifications can be seen in the results of recent votes at the UN condemning Russia’s aggression against Ukraine. Governments representing half the world’s population did not vote for them, as much over frustration with Western inconsistency as indecision over crossing Russia.

    This state of affairs offers some explanation for flagging support in countries like Serbia for membership in the EU. It is an organization described as a part of the “rules-based international order,” and yet has embraced Kosovo’s self-proclaimed statehood. (Fortunately, five out of 27 EU members continue to recognize Serbia’s territorial integrity).

    By positioning Serbia not just in both western and eastern camps, but between them, current Serbian president Aleksandar Vucic has played a role in diminishing the EU’s popularity. Still, no one should be under the illusion that Western mixed signals towards Serbia are not also at play.

    Putin is to blame for invading Ukraine. But he did not open the Pandora’s box of relativizing respect for the territorial integrity. Western contradictions have added weight to his claim of double-standards, and unfortunately it is heard with sympathy in many corners of the world even in the midst of the horrors of the Ukrainian war. Indeed, those contradictions puncture the West’s greatest advantage — its moral authority — at a very time when other great and rising powers are starting to match the West’s influence. And that makes another Ukraine somewhere else more likely.

    Boris Tadic served two consecutive terms as Serbia’s first democratically elected president (2004-2012).
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:59 pm


    For still other states, the policy is turned upside down. When president of Serbia, I led our diplomatic campaign to counter destabilizing moves to unilaterally alter the status of Kosovo and Metohija — then, as now, unrecognized as a state under international law. Then, as now, Serbia’s territorial integrity and the views of its citizens — who remain resolutely attached to their nation’s heartland and identity — were, apparently, irrelevant. And yet the territorial integrity of Serbia’s next-door neighbor Bosnia is declared absolute.

    Broken record
    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:24 pm



    _____
    Međuopštinski pustolov.

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    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:32 pm

    Siroma Aldin, sigurno mu je zao sto nema neki gubernator visoki predstavnik za Srbiju da moze da tuzi, pa mora ovako u etar...
    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:37 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Siroma Aldin, sigurno mu je zao sto nema neki gubernator visoki predstavnik za Srbiju da moze da tuzi, pa mora ovako u etar...

    Samo neutralno, jebo Aldina.


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    Notxor

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    Post by Notxor Sun Jul 03, 2022 5:38 pm

    Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 0aHSwfp


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      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Cowboy

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    Post by Cowboy Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:37 pm

    fikret selimbašić wrote:  

    Trazio na google inverse image search, ovo je jedina ovakva na netu (doduse smeta ovo crveno sto je zaokruzio za pretrazivanje)

    Neveruem da je ovo realno. Mislim, jesmo stoka i nemamo drzavu ali ovo je bas besmisleno. Sem ako se pancir efendija ne zove Zoran ili Zdravko a pr tom voli latinicu xe xe
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:57 pm

    Samo ti gubi vreme pretrazujuci fotomontaze bosnjackih nacionalista sa tvitera.
    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:08 pm

    Cowboy wrote:
    fikret selimbašić wrote:  

    Trazio na google inverse image search, ovo je jedina ovakva na netu (doduse smeta ovo crveno sto je zaokruzio za pretrazivanje)

    Neveruem da je ovo realno. Mislim, jesmo stoka i nemamo drzavu ali ovo je bas besmisleno. Sem ako se pancir efendija ne zove Zoran ili Zdravko a pr tom voli latinicu xe xe

    Ni meni na drugo i pažljvije zagledanje ne izgleda kao agresorsko Z. Prenijet ću ovo na salo i sahar topik.


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    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:17 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Nije u tome poenta nego eto nismo bas ratovali sami.
    Jok nismo.

    Usred ratova u Hrvatskoj i Bosni, Hrvatska nabavi S-300. Jebo embargo na oruzje, jebo to sto je Hrvatska ocigledno imala obuku od strane penzionisanih NATO oficira, njima je Rusija prodala S-300. 

    Nama su, umesto S-300, prodali know how kako da zamaskiramo oklop kad krenu da nas gadjaju iz vazduha. Zajebavam se, nisu ni to uradili.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:32 pm

    Nije Rusija, nego Ukrajina.

    I nije prodala S300 sistem, nego lanser.

    I nismo ratovali sami, vec sa Crnogorcima, koji su danas navodno kul sa svima i u Nato paktu.
    Bleeding Blitva

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    Post by Bleeding Blitva Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:43 pm

    Ajme Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 3274312807
     

    Na hr forumu čitam da koji k šaljemo išta Ukrajini, jer nas nisu šljivili prije 30 godina, i onda dalje trolačina - ali jesmo li se mi njih sjetili za vrijeme -  gladomora! Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 1233199462


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    my goosebumps have goosebumps
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:51 pm

    Ukrajina, Belorusija, nebitno. Sad citam da su Hrvati promptno taj “nefukcuionalni” S300 još krajem devedestih poslali u Ameriku, da se vežbaju na “nefunkcionalnom”.

    Što se tiče ratovanja Crnogoraca… evo sad gledam spisak osudjenih vojnika i civila u Hagu, i nigde ne vidim nekoga ko je u to doba živeo u CG, kao recimo vojvoda Šešelj koji je živeo u Srbiji pa ipak zaradio robiju u Hagu. Moze pomoc? Ne trebaju mi etnicki Crnogorci koji su ziveli u Srbiji i Bosni, treba mi čovek iz CG koji je živeo u CG, i koji je optužen za ratne zločine.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:00 pm

    pavle strugar
    Cowboy

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    Post by Cowboy Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:07 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Samo ti gubi vreme pretrazujuci fotomontaze bosnjackih nacionalista sa tvitera.

    Pa one hiljade Z nesrecnika koji u Vucicevoj i Vulinovoj reziji mitingovase po Beogradu tesko da su fotomontaza.

    Da se ne pravimo ludi jbg, ne trebaju nam bosnjacki nacionalisti da bi smo znali da nam je drzava septicka jama.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:10 pm

    Del Cap wrote:1 opinjon


    https://www.bostonherald.com/2022/07/02/tadic-wests-failures-over-territorial-integrity-set-stage-for-ukraine/amp/

    Tadic: West’s failures over territorial integrity set stage for Ukraine
    Boris Tadic
    July 2, 2022 at 12:10 a.m.

    The conflict over Ukraine is exposing an inconsistency at the heart of Western foreign policy.

    Left unaddressed, it poses as strong a threat to international relations as any Russian aggression. It’s not the extent to which democratic nations should be reliant on Russia’s fossil fuels, though confusion reigns here too. Rather, the issue is territorial integrity.

    When it comes to Ukraine, today the West’s position is that territorial integrity is sacrosanct. Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea are non-negotiable as parts of Ukraine and must be returned by Russia: Their legally, UN-recognized status demands it. Similarly for Bosnia and Herzegovina in the Balkans: The country’s borders are judged, rightly, to be immutable.

    Yet for other nations, such clarity appears not to apply. For instance, Azerbaijan’s sovereign borders are legally recognized, thanks to multiple UN Security Council resolutions which the U.S. and Europe wholeheartedly supported. Yet in the U.S. Congress, ethnic-Armenian separatists are described as “friends and allies,” even after their vocal, public support for the pro-Russian rebels of Donetsk and Luhansk.

    French politicians go further, visiting for photo-ops with separatist leaders.
    While backing Azerbaijan’s sovereign borders at the UN, American and French diplomats say in the same breath that talks are necessary and the right to territorial self-determination must be considered. How this circle can be squared is not clear.

    For still other states, the policy is turned upside down. When president of Serbia, I led our diplomatic campaign to counter destabilizing moves to unilaterally alter the status of Kosovo and Metohija — then, as now, unrecognized as a state under international law. Then, as now, Serbia’s territorial integrity and the views of its citizens — who remain resolutely attached to their nation’s heartland and identity — were, apparently, irrelevant. And yet the territorial integrity of Serbia’s next-door neighbor Bosnia is declared absolute.

    As the principle of UN member states’ territorial integrity is enshrined in the UN Charter, in 2010 a non-binding advisory opinion was sought from the UN’s International Court of Justice to the question “whether Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence is in accordance with international law.” The answer, essentially, was to avoid one — the response allowing different, arbitrary interpretations according to the interests of competing world powers.

    At the time, I warned setting such a precedent  would be a justification for others to ignite hotspots worldwide. I warned about Ukraine. Indeed, today, that advisory opinion has emboldened Russia to justify its slow takeover of the country’s east and south. Before them, Georgia’s breakaway provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia were recognized by Russia as independent states. But this recognition only occurred after the West first recognized Kosovo, opening the door and showing them the way.

    Now in Ukraine, with both sides dug in, the war risks festering, needlessly consuming countless more lives, threatening a prolonged energy crisis, and engendering famines across the world.

    The ramifications can be seen in the results of recent votes at the UN condemning Russia’s aggression against Ukraine. Governments representing half the world’s population did not vote for them, as much over frustration with Western inconsistency as indecision over crossing Russia.

    This state of affairs offers some explanation for flagging support in countries like Serbia for membership in the EU. It is an organization described as a part of the “rules-based international order,” and yet has embraced Kosovo’s self-proclaimed statehood. (Fortunately, five out of 27 EU members continue to recognize Serbia’s territorial integrity).

    By positioning Serbia not just in both western and eastern camps, but between them, current Serbian president Aleksandar Vucic has played a role in diminishing the EU’s popularity. Still, no one should be under the illusion that Western mixed signals towards Serbia are not also at play.

    Putin is to blame for invading Ukraine. But he did not open the Pandora’s box of relativizing respect for the territorial integrity. Western contradictions have added weight to his claim of double-standards, and unfortunately it is heard with sympathy in many corners of the world even in the midst of the horrors of the Ukrainian war. Indeed, those contradictions puncture the West’s greatest advantage — its moral authority — at a very time when other great and rising powers are starting to match the West’s influence. And that makes another Ukraine somewhere else more likely.

    Boris Tadic served two consecutive terms as Serbia’s first democratically elected president (2004-2012).

    lobiranje za azere jedan od odvratnijih kontinuiteta nase spoljne politike


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:21 pm

    Da jbt
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:40 pm

    mislim da pomognem boti: jermeni, bosanci i albanci su zrtve genocida i zlocina azera i srbije.  eto resio sam mu problem.

    ako hoce da se zali na licimurje treba da se zapita sto palestinci i kurdi nemaju takav tretman.


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    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:48 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:Ukrajina, Belorusija, nebitno. Sad citam da su Hrvati promptno taj “nefukcuionalni” S300 još krajem devedestih poslali u Ameriku, da se vežbaju na “nefunkcionalnom”.

    Što se tiče ratovanja Crnogoraca… evo sad gledam spisak osudjenih vojnika i civila u Hagu, i nigde ne vidim nekoga ko je u to doba živeo u CG, kao recimo vojvoda Šešelj koji je živeo u Srbiji pa ipak zaradio robiju u Hagu. Moze pomoc? Ne trebaju mi etnicki Crnogorci koji su ziveli u Srbiji i Bosni, treba mi čovek iz CG koji je živeo u CG, i koji je optužen za ratne zločine.

    Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 286371741

    http://www.hraction.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Sudjenja-za-ratne-zlocine-u-Crnoj-Gori-2009-2015-1.pdf

    Inace, cela primedba i jeste da su Crnogorci, kao i vazda u istoriji, izvukli svoje junacko dupe i nagodili se sa neprijateljem protiv koga su bili ozbiljni huskaci, i da tim pre zasluzuju ozbiljan prezir, bas kao i svi njihovi potezi. Otuda i (ne)veliki broj Crnogoraca optuzenih za ratne zlocine, koje su svakako masovno pocinili. Uostalom, setimo se suza 1 Tereze Kesovije. Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 4135669698
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:00 am

    Umesto odgovora na pitanje koliko ljudi uz CG koji su živeli u CG je osudjeno u Hagu, ti mi uz osmeh daješ pdf u kome se daje odgovor na pitanje koje nisam postavio, a onda naknadno objašnjavaš da mi ne odgovaraš na pitanje jer ti se ne svidja odgovor, i usput mi daješ  tumačenje zašto državljana CG nema u Hagu - “izdajice se nagodile i izvukle”. Srbija i Ukrajina - Page 18 3579118792


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:09 am

    Pa naravno. Najbolje da su ti iz Crne Gore ostali da zive u Crnoj Gori koja ulazi u Nato. Gore su ti dali primer Pavla Strugara, koji elegantno ignorises.

    Drugo, koja je poenta da ja sada pretrazujem sirom interneta podatak koji ti hoces da bi izvrnuo polaznu tezu na neodbranjiv nacin - Crna Gora je usla u rat zajedno sa Srbijom i njeno rukovodstvo je ne deeskaliralo situaciju, vec predstavljalo jastreba u tim sukobima. I sad ces kao naci neko podatak/papir koji ce pokazati kako Crna Gora, eto, nije bas takva. Kako da ne. Potrazi sam te podatke koji su kap u moru svega sto je Crna Gora radila tih godina, da ne spominjem klasican kriminal i mafijanje. Nama ostalima je dovoljno secanje na devedesete.
    ficfiric

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