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    Rat u Ukrajini

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Thu May 19, 2022 8:52 pm

    Erős Pista wrote:Realno bi trebalo Ukrajinci da se predaju da bi Nemci imali grejanje. Dokle bre Nemac da bude gradjanin 2. reda u EU i da se zrtvuje za druge, oprasta Grcima dugove, bori se za demokratiju u Madjarskoj i Srbiji i svima prodaje svoja kola. Dokle bre!
    Ili sto bi rekao Adam Tooze 
    As the German philosopher Jürgen Habermas has suggested recently, Europe must surely recognise its historical and politico-cultural distance from the patriotic enthusiasm so spectacularly on display in Ukraine. Europe must own its own post-heroic state.


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu May 19, 2022 8:59 pm

    Pa to Habermasovo je ipak nesto drugo i razumljivo u sklopu svega sto je pisao. Meni su hit ovi sto kukaju kako je jadnim Nemcima kad ih pljuje ukrajinski ministar.


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    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Thu May 19, 2022 9:05 pm

    Ma ja to citam kao sukob kulture; post nacionalni Nemci i neki cobani budale na istoku Evrope koji se loze na patriotizam kao divljaci iz proslog veka.


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Thu May 19, 2022 9:32 pm

    Ne znam ja koliko je bilo ko "post-nacionalan". Post-teritorijalan - mozda. Ali post-nacionalan...pitanje je.
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Fri May 20, 2022 6:45 pm

    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri May 20, 2022 7:12 pm

    Al ćemo se ogrejati...mislim, svi zajedno
    Notxor

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    Post by Notxor Fri May 20, 2022 8:57 pm



    _____
      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Janko Suvar

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    Post by Janko Suvar Fri May 20, 2022 9:31 pm

    Территория металлургического комбината "Азовсталь" в Мариуполе, на которой с 21 апреля была заблокирована группировка украинских боевиков нацистского формирования "Азов", полностью освобождена", - сообщил представитель Минобороны


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    ????
    kondo

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    Post by kondo Fri May 20, 2022 10:24 pm

    Notxor wrote:

    a bosna iznad srbije?

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 4 1727922752


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    #FreeFacu

    Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.
    Bleeding Blitva

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    Post by Bleeding Blitva Fri May 20, 2022 10:29 pm

    Jel to ovo: https://www.alo.rs/razonoda/zanimljivosti/600343/ludansk-donjeck-srbi-drzava-istorija/vest Rat u Ukrajini - Page 4 1233199462


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    my goosebumps have goosebumps
    Notxor

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    Post by Notxor Fri May 20, 2022 11:31 pm

    Na sudu, pod zakletvom bih rekao da je tu negde bila i neka Hrvatska, ali se ne sećam gde i kako.
    Mozak mi je kao da sam Džoni Dep, ali nisam lep.


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      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  
    Bleeding Blitva

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    Post by Bleeding Blitva Fri May 20, 2022 11:41 pm

    Notxor wrote:Na sudu, pod zakletvom bih rekao da je tu negde bila i neka Hrvatska, ali se ne sećam gde i kako.
    Mozak mi je kao da sam Džoni Dep, ali nisam lep.
    Nije ni J. Depp više Rat u Ukrajini - Page 4 3363120308

    A za drevne Hrvate i svetinje trenutni autoritet je Milanović Rat u Ukrajini - Page 4 2304934895


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    my goosebumps have goosebumps
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sat May 21, 2022 12:24 am

    Wimbledon stripped of ranking points by ATP, WTA


    The women’s and men’s professional tennis tours will not award ranking points for Wimbledon this year because of the All England Club’s ban on players from Russia and Belarus over the invasion of Ukraine.

    The WTA and ATP announced their unprecedented decisions Friday night, two days before the start of the French Open — and a little more than a month before play begins at Wimbledon on June 27.

    It is a significant rebuke of the sport’s oldest Grand Slam tournament and, in a technical sense, renders the event an exhibition without any ranking points at stake.
    ...


    The ability for players of any nationality to enter tournaments based on merit, and without discrimination, is fundamental to our tour,” the ATP said in a statement. “The decision by Wimbledon to ban Russian and Belarusian players from competing in the U.K. this summer undermines this principle and the integrity of the ATP ranking system.”

    Saying it made this move “with great regret and reluctance,” the ATP added: “Our rules and agreements exist in order to protect the rights of players as a whole. Unilateral decisions of this nature, if unaddressed, set a damaging precedent for the rest of the tour. Discrimination by individual tournaments is simply not viable on a tour that operates in more than 30 countries.

    A statement attributed to WTA Chairman and CEO Steve Simon and released by that tour Friday said, in part: “Nearly 50 years ago, the WTA was founded on the fundamental principle that all players have an equal opportunity to compete based on merit and without discrimination. The WTA believes that individual athletes participating in an individual sport should not be penalized or prevented from competing solely because of their nationalities or the decisions made by the governments of their countries.”

    The All England Club later responded with “deep disappointment.”

    “We remain unwilling to accept success or participation at Wimbledon being used to benefit the propaganda machine of the Russian regime
    , which, through its closely controlled State media, has an acknowledged history of using sporting success to support a triumphant narrative to the Russian people,” the club said in a statement. “We therefore wish to state our deep disappointment at the decisions taken by the ATP, WTA and ITF in removing ranking points for The Championships. We believe these decisions to be disproportionate in the context of the exceptional and extreme circumstances of this situation and the position we found ourselves in, and damaging to all players who compete on Tour.”

    The International Tennis Federation said Friday that it would not grant its ranking points for the junior and wheelchair events at Wimbledon this year, explaining that “tournament organizers are not permitted to unilaterally impose entry criteria.”
    Janko Suvar

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    Post by Janko Suvar Sat May 21, 2022 12:29 am

    ⚡ Zelensky: Western partners involved in evacuation of Mariupol defenders.

    Although the details were not disclosed, President Volodymyr Zelensky said that Ukraine was negotiating the evacuation with the leaders of several countries, including Turkey, Switzerland and Israel.


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    ????
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sat May 21, 2022 12:36 am

    plachkica

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    Post by plachkica Sat May 21, 2022 12:43 am

    Del Cap wrote:
    Wimbledon stripped of ranking points by ATP, WTA


    The women’s and men’s professional tennis tours will not award ranking points for Wimbledon this year because of the All England Club’s ban on players from Russia and Belarus over the invasion of Ukraine.

    The WTA and ATP announced their unprecedented decisions Friday night, two days before the start of the French Open — and a little more than a month before play begins at Wimbledon on June 27.

    It is a significant rebuke of the sport’s oldest Grand Slam tournament and, in a technical sense, renders the event an exhibition without any ranking points at stake.
    ...


    The ability for players of any nationality to enter tournaments based on merit, and without discrimination, is fundamental to our tour,” the ATP said in a statement. “The decision by Wimbledon to ban Russian and Belarusian players from competing in the U.K. this summer undermines this principle and the integrity of the ATP ranking system.”

    Saying it made this move “with great regret and reluctance,” the ATP added: “Our rules and agreements exist in order to protect the rights of players as a whole. Unilateral decisions of this nature, if unaddressed, set a damaging precedent for the rest of the tour. Discrimination by individual tournaments is simply not viable on a tour that operates in more than 30 countries.

    A statement attributed to WTA Chairman and CEO Steve Simon and released by that tour Friday said, in part: “Nearly 50 years ago, the WTA was founded on the fundamental principle that all players have an equal opportunity to compete based on merit and without discrimination. The WTA believes that individual athletes participating in an individual sport should not be penalized or prevented from competing solely because of their nationalities or the decisions made by the governments of their countries.”

    The All England Club later responded with “deep disappointment.”

    “We remain unwilling to accept success or participation at Wimbledon being used to benefit the propaganda machine of the Russian regime
    , which, through its closely controlled State media, has an acknowledged history of using sporting success to support a triumphant narrative to the Russian people,” the club said in a statement. “We therefore wish to state our deep disappointment at the decisions taken by the ATP, WTA and ITF in removing ranking points for The Championships. We believe these decisions to be disproportionate in the context of the exceptional and extreme circumstances of this situation and the position we found ourselves in, and damaging to all players who compete on Tour.”

    The International Tennis Federation said Friday that it would not grant its ranking points for the junior and wheelchair events at Wimbledon this year, explaining that “tournament organizers are not permitted to unilaterally impose entry criteria.”


    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sat May 21, 2022 12:09 pm

    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Sat May 21, 2022 12:16 pm

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 4 3579118792


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    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat May 21, 2022 1:17 pm

    Trebaju im ako se Englezi iskrcaju zbog Severne Irske
    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Sat May 21, 2022 1:22 pm



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    Međuopštinski pustolov.

    Zli stolar.
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sat May 21, 2022 3:32 pm

    The Economist

    The war in Ukraine
    Unblocking Odessa

    The fiasco of the Gallipoli campaign of 1915 was caused, in part, by a global food crisis. The Ottoman empire’s entry into the
    first world war, on Germany’s side, blocked grain exports from the Russian empire, which then encompassed Ukraine. By forcing open the passage between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, Britain and its allies hoped to knock the Turks out of the war and restore Russian trade. That would help lower soaring food prices, and strengthen Russia’s weak finances. But the
    landings in the Dardanelles turned to disaster and the allies withdrew after a year.

    A century on, the West faces a similar conundrum: how to get Ukraine’s vast food crop past Russia’s blockade to relieve global food shortages. Andrey Stavnitser, the owner of Ukraine’s largest private shipping ­terminal operator, tis, says that Ukrainian grain silos are largely full, and there is not enough room for this year’s crop. “If we can’t store it, it will start rotting,” he says. Frustratingly, Russia is able to export its grain, including crops stolen from occupied land, from the Black Sea while Ukraine’s is shut in. “Unblocking Odessa is as important as providing weapons to Ukraine,” he says.

    The EU is seeking to expand alternative routes by rail and road. But these can take only a fraction of Ukraine’s exports. If the bulk of Ukraine’s grain is to get out, it must be by sea. But how? Some people are now exploring the idea of naval convoys to escort merchant vessels in and out of Odessa and nearby ports. Mr Stavnitser hopes for a UN convoy led by Turkey.

    James Stavridis, nato’s former supreme allied commander, has suggested taking a leaf out of the operation by America and some allies to protect oil tankers in the Persian Gulf during the Iran-­Iraq war of the 1980s.

    But James Foggo, the ex­commander of nato forces in the Mediterranean, argues the parallel is misleading. “The difference is: Iran was not a nuclear power. Russia is a nuclear power.
    Russia is a major power and there is a risk of escalation.” The tanker war was fraught; America’s warships were struck by Iraq and Iran and one of them mistakenly shot down an Iranian airliner.

    Convoys in the Black Sea face military, legal and political constraints. Begin with Russia’s “anti­navy”—the thicket of antiaircraft, anti­shipping and electronic­warfare systems based in Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014. This allows it to dominate much of the Black Sea from the land.

    And despite the sinking of the  Moskva, Russia’s flagship in the Black Sea, its naval forces remain powerful—including ships
    and submarines armed with Kalibr cruise missiles. Even if Russia shrinks from attacking convoys, says Michael Petersen of the us Naval War College, ships in port will be sitting ducks. Odessa is within range of Russia’s Bastion­ anti­ship cruise missiles in Crimea, he notes.

    Ukraine has heavily mined its waters to prevent a Russian amphibious assault. Odessa’s beaches are closed and guarded by soldiers in camouflaged outposts. The port, including its famous Potemkin Stairs, is off limits. Russia has laid mines, too.

    About 80 foreign ships are now stuck in Ukrainian waters; some have been sunk. “Mining is easy; de­mining is complicated,” notes a Western diplomat. Ukraine lacks the capacity to clear the necessary sea­lanes. Moreover, says another diplomat, “If things are de­mined for the purposes of letting the wheat out, but then Russians are allowed to sneak in and attack Odessa, that’s a problem.” As the Russian advance falters, however, President Volodymyr Zelensky has told visiting American congressmen that arming Ukraine with more anti­ship missiles could allow demining to start.

    Protecting convoys might require a substantial nato naval presence. This raises questions related to the Montreux Convention of 1936, which regulates shipping in the Turkish straits. Turkey has invoked Article 19, in effect barring passage to the navies of belligerent states—a move that affects Russia more than others. Turkey has informally told other countries not to deploy warships in the Black Sea. It could take such measures formally under Article 21 if it felt “threatened with imminent danger of war”. The convention anyhow limits war vessels from non­littoral states, and how long they can stay in the Black Sea. A nato operation would thus require the frequent rotation of ships. Turkey is a nato member and faces no such limits. But its dealings with Russia are ambiguous: it has sold Ukraine the much­-celebrated Bayraktar tb­2 combat drone, but has also declined to impose sanctions on Russia and has allowed oligarchs’ superyachts to shelter in its waters.

    The debate over convoys has echoes of the earlier one over imposing a no­fly zone over western Ukraine: are nato allies ready to risk a direct fight with Russia? President Joe Biden said no to a no­fly zone. That would risk “World War III”, he said. Without American backing, it is hard to imagine others confronting Russia. The faint hope is that international pressure, particularly from non­Western countries, may persuade Russia to relent.

    Some in the UN think—or hope—that Vladimir Putin, its president, will not want to be accused of causing global hunger. António Guterres, the un secretary­-general, has suggested a deal whereby Russia would allow food shipments out of Odessa in exchange for easing of sanctions on fertiliser exports from Belarus and Russia.

    Many officials think Mr Putin is, if anything, even more determined to crush Ukraine economically given his failure to conquer it militarily. Western diplomats say reopening Ukrainian ports is not a practical option for at least six months. A Ukrainian one is blunter: “There is no point in escorting merchant ships if nobody is prepared to shoot back at Russia. The only answeris for us to defeat Russia.”

    America, which currently holds the presidency of the un Security Council, is pushing for action on improving food security generally. The effort is intended in partto prove to fence­sitting countries that the war in Ukraine, and the economic disruption it is causing, should be blamed on Russia, not the West. Western countries may yet put forward a motion calling forthe reopening ofOdessa, if only to force Russia to use its veto.

    The UN General Assembly, which includes all members, requires any country casting a veto to explain itself before the assembly within ten days. Russia may not care, says Richard Gowan of the International Crisis Group, a think­tank. “In some ways the greatest risk is that Russia says yes to reopening Odessa but then creates all manner of procedural obstacles.”
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat May 21, 2022 3:38 pm

    Meni 1 stvar nije jasna. Kako prevezu zitarice do Odese, zar ne mogu tako i do Konstance? Malo okolo naokolo, ali jbg
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sat May 21, 2022 3:43 pm

    Vrv je do kapaciteta železnice i skladišta.
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Sat May 21, 2022 3:58 pm

    Stav uredništva NJT, zanimljivo



    OPINION
    THE EDITORIAL BOARD

    The War in Ukraine Is Getting Complicated, and America Isn’t Ready
    May 19, 2022


    The Senate passed a $40 billion emergency aid package for Ukraine on Thursday, but with a small group of isolationist Republicans loudly criticizing the spending and the war entering a new and complicated phase, continued bipartisan support is not guaranteed.

    Avril Haines, the director of national intelligence, warned the Senate Armed Services Committee recently that the next few months may be volatile. The conflict between Ukraine and Russia could take “a more unpredictable and potentially escalatory trajectory,” she said, with the increased likelihood that Russia could threaten to use nuclear weapons.

    These are extraordinary costs and serious dangers, and yet there are many questions that President Biden has yet to answer for the American public with regard to the continued involvement of the United States in this conflict.

    In March, this board argued that the message from the United States and its allies to Ukrainians and Russians alike must be: No matter how long it takes, Ukraine will be free. Ukraine deserves support against Russia’s unprovoked aggression, and the United States must lead its NATO allies in demonstrating to Vladimir Putin that the Atlantic alliance is willing and able to resist his revanchist ambitions.

    That goal cannot shift, but in the end, it is still not in America’s best interest to plunge into an all-out war with Russia, even if a negotiated peace may require Ukraine to make some hard decisions. And the U.S. aims and strategy in this war have become harder to discern, as the parameters of the mission appear to have changed.

    Is the United States, for example, trying to help bring an end to this conflict, through a settlement that would allow for a sovereign Ukraine and some kind of relationship between the United States and Russia? Or is the United States now trying to weaken Russia permanently? Has the administration’s goal shifted to destabilizing Vladimir Putin or having him removed? Does the United States intend to hold Mr. Putin accountable as a war criminal? Or is the goal to try to avoid a wider war — and if so, how does crowing about providing U.S. intelligence to kill Russians and sink one of their ships achieve this?

    Without clarity on these questions, the White House not only risks losing Americans’ interest in supporting Ukrainians — who continue to suffer the loss of lives and livelihoods —  but also jeopardizes long-term peace and security on the European continent.

    Americans have been galvanized by Ukraine’s suffering, but popular support for a war far from U.S. shores will not continue indefinitely. Inflation is a much bigger issue for American voters than Ukraine, and the disruptions to global food and energy markets are likely to intensify.

    The current moment is a messy one in this conflict, which may explain President Biden and his cabinet’s reluctance to put down clear goal posts. All the more reason, then, for Mr. Biden to make the case to American voters, well before November, that support for Ukraine means support for democratic values and the right of countries to defend themselves against aggression — while peace and security remain the ideal outcome in this war.

    It is tempting to see Ukraine’s stunning successes against Russia’s aggression as a sign that with sufficient American and European help, Ukraine is close to pushing Russia back to its positions before the invasion. But that is a dangerous assumption.

    A decisive military victory for Ukraine over Russia, in which Ukraine regains all the territory Russia has seized since 2014, is not a realistic goal. Though Russia’s planning and fighting have been surprisingly sloppy, Russia remains too strong, and Mr. Putin has invested too much personal prestige in the invasion to back down.

    The United States and NATO are already deeply involved, militarily and economically. Unrealistic expectations could draw them ever deeper into a costly, drawn-out war. Russia, however battered and inept, is still capable of inflicting untold destruction on Ukraine and is still a nuclear superpower with an aggrieved, volatile despot who has shown little inclination toward a negotiated settlement. Ukraine and Russia now “appear further apart than at any other point in the nearly three-month-long war,” as The Times reported.

    Recent bellicose statements from Washington — President Biden’s assertion that Mr. Putin “cannot remain in power,” Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin’s comment that Russia must be “weakened” and the pledge by the House speaker, Nancy Pelosi, that the United States would support Ukraine “until victory is won” — may be rousing proclamations of support, but they do not bring negotiations any closer.

    In the end, it is the Ukrainians who must make the hard decisions: They are the ones fighting, dying and losing their homes to Russian aggression, and it is they who must decide what an end to the war might look like. If the conflict does lead to real negotiations, it will be Ukrainian leaders who will have to make the painful territorial decisions that any compromise will demand.

    The United States and NATO have demonstrated that they will support the Ukrainian fight with ample firepower and other means. And however the fighting ends, the United States and its allies must be prepared to help Ukraine rebuild.

    But as the war continues, Mr. Biden should also make clear to President Volodymyr Zelensky and his people that there is a limit to how far the United States and NATO will go to confront Russia, and limits to the arms, money and political support they can muster. It is imperative that the Ukrainian government’s decisions be based on a realistic assessment of its means and how much more destruction Ukraine can sustain.

    Confronting this reality may be painful, but it is not appeasement. This is what governments are duty bound to do, not chase after an illusory “win.” Russia will be feeling the pain of isolation and debilitating economic sanctions for years to come, and Mr. Putin will go down in history as a butcher. The challenge now is to shake off the euphoria, stop the taunting and focus on defining and completing the mission. America’s support for Ukraine is a test of its place in the world in the 21st century, and Mr. Biden has an opportunity and an obligation to help define what that will be.
    Notxor

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    Post by Notxor Sat May 21, 2022 3:59 pm

    Stigao Klejton u BG



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      Sweet and Tender Hooligan  

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