VAKCINA

boomer crook wrote:samo preko leseva starica. mada ovaj put mozda probaju da uvedu NEKU prioretizaciju.

Janko Suvar wrote:Sreo sam prvu osobu, mislim u svom okruzenju, koja je primila obe doze vakcine i sad ne zeli da primi trecu. Dakle onu osobu o kojoj smo pricali, a ja nisam verovao da postoji.

Ne ume da artikulise na normalan nacin zasto ne zeli, a stvarno sam zeleo da saznam.

Michael Lin, PhD-MD
6h ago, 12 tweets, 4 min read
 
The drop to 44% protection vs sympt dz 5mo after RNA dose2 suggests a rapid drop of circulating antibodies. The immune system does not sustain the high amounts of nAbs needed to block symptomatic infection. Makes sense it would only produce those high levels after the RNA punch.
 

 
This paper found the half-decay time of anti-SARSCoV2 antibody levels to be 2-3 months after infection.
 

 

 
Another larger study in Science similarly measured half-life of 100 days for antibodies (note log scale)
 

 
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/371/6529/eabf4063
 
There isn't a linear correlation between nAb levels and % symptomatic breakthrough of course. So here we lose 50% of the protection (~88 to 44% breakthrough rate) in 5 months, which corresponds to ~75% reduction in antibody levels. 

This is just about your ability to have high enough circulating nAb levels for mucosal immunity: stopping enough virus from entering cells that you don't even have symptoms. So even if your nAb levels have decayed and you get symptoms, the vaccines already gave you a head start 

...in that your trained B and T cells are already there and can ramp up activity upon breakthrough to produce more nAbs again and kill infected cells, preventing progression to severe disease. 

It also goes without saying that this doesn't mean your long term ability to recognize and fight SARSCoV2 is being lost with 50% probability in 5 months either. You have memory B and T cells that survive for years and can proliferate in response to re-encounters. 

So when you hear talk about immunity waning and then the next day talk about how you have lifelong protection, they are not contradictory. Your immune system is designed to react to ongoing challenges with antibody production. 

Your circulating levels of Abs wane because you can't possibly keep nAb levels high for every antigen you've ever encountered. But you still have lifelong protection in B and T cells watchfully waiting. 

This does mean that to protect against symptomatic disease which is also transmissible disease, we would need boosters every 6 months. If nearly everyone worldwide were immunized synchronously then we could reach herd immunity, i.e. the virus stops propagating. 

However it seems unlikely we can immunize everyone synchronously. So then if there are always some people with low antibody levels (whose last vaccination or last infection was >6 months ago) the virus can continue to propagate through the population as a mild cold. 

Let's rewind the tape: '“Our data from the CDC today suggests that vaccinated people don’t carry the virus, don’t get sick and that it’s not just in clinical trials, but it’s also in real world data,” said Walensky.'
Should have consulted a biologist.
 

Data Suggests Vaccinated Individuals Don't Carry Virus or Get Sick: CDC

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/vaccinated-individuals-dont-carry-virus-or-get-sick-cdc/2506677/

MNE wrote:

Janko Suvar wrote:Sreo sam prvu osobu, mislim u svom okruzenju, koja je primila obe doze vakcine i sad ne zeli da primi trecu. Dakle onu osobu o kojoj smo pricali, a ja nisam verovao da postoji.

Ne ume da artikulise na normalan nacin zasto ne zeli, a stvarno sam zeleo da saznam.

Burundi 2028.

"Sreo sam prvu osobu, mislim u svom okruzenju, koja je primila 48 doza vakcine i sad ne zeli da primi 49-u. Dakle onu osobu o kojoj smo pricali, a ja nisam verovao da postoji.

Ne ume da artikulise na normalan nacin zasto ne zeli, a stvarno sam zeleo da saznam."

Stručni komitet za imunizaciju preporučio je sve četiri vrste vakcine kao treću dozu vakcinacije protiv korona virusa, rečeno je Tanjugu u Vladi Srbije.

Iz Vlade Srbije je rečeno da je u vezi sa trećom dozom važno istaći dve stvari, a to je da će građanima biti dostupme sve vakcine i da će građani moći da biraju vakcinu.

Državni sekretar u Ministarstvu zdravlja i predsednik Nacionalnog korodinacionog tima za imunizaciju Mirsad Đerlek rekao je da bi treća doza trebalo da bude primljena najmanje šest meseci posle druge.

Iz Vlade Srbije je za Tanjug pojašnjeno da će građanima biti dostupne sve četiri vrste vakcina nakon što su pojedini mediji ranije danas objavili da bi najbolje bilo da ljudi prime RNK vakcinu kao treću dozu imunizacije.

Is Israel or the UK right when it comes to COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness?

According to one Israeli researcher, both sets of data could be correct. Here is why:

By MAAYAN JAFFE-HOFFMAN   
JULY 24, 2021 18:21

Is the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine 88% or only 39% effective against preventing symptomatic infection?

Two separate studies, one published by the Israeli Health Ministry and the other published in the New England Journal of Medicine late Thursday showed striking differences.

“This discrepancy is kind of unsettling and needs to be further investigated,” said Prof. Cyrille Cohen, a member of the advisory committee for clinical trials on SARS-COV2 vaccines at the Health Ministry.

Specifically, the ministry's study found that the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine was only 40% effective against symptomatic cases of COVID-19 and 39% effective at stopping infection at all against the Delta variant.



It did, however, show that the vaccine remains 91% effective against developing serious cases of the disease and 88% effective against hospitalization. 

The British study, in contrast, found that two doses of the Pfizer vaccine was 88% effective against stopping symptomatic infection against the Delta variant. 

The Delta variant is currently responsible for more than 90% of cases in the country and has been found to be significantly more contagious.

According to Cohen, there are several possible answers to the data gap.

 
FIRST and critical is the difference in time between exposure to the Delta variant and vaccination. 

England vaccinated at a much slower pace than Israel, meaning that the majority of its population was only fully vaccinated by mid-April 2021. This is in contrast to Israel, where around 90% of the country’s most vulnerable population were jabbed by the end of January. 

It is beginning to become clear that vaccine immunity begins to wane after about six months. The Israeli study showed that for people vaccinated more than six months ago, the effectiveness of the vaccine at stopping coronavirus dropped to as low as 16%.

Among more than 1.8 million people who received two shots by January 31, some 5,770 contracted the virus – and 1,181 of them, or 20% of all new infections, were contracted during the week of July 11 to 17, the Health Ministry reported.

“If you take into account that they [the UK population] vaccinated later and were exposed to the Delta variant a month before us,” Cohen said, “it could make sense that at the point they checked, they had around 80% effectiveness. The question is what is going to happen in three months? Will they see the same efficacy that we are seeing?”


THE NEXT issue is age. 

Both Israel and the UK were careful to first vaccinate healthcare workers and the elderly. In England, however, the older population was largely administered the AstraZeneca vaccine, whereas people under 40 were offered Pfizer or Moderna as an alternative due to evidence linking AstraZeneca to rare blood clots. The same study showed that the AstraZeneca vaccine was only 67% effective against symptomatic disease after two doses. 

In Israel, everyone received Pfizer. Breakthrough infections were most prominent among people 60 and older, a cohort that already has a greater tendency to be immunocompromised and prone to developing symptomatic if not severe cases of COVID-19.

A third explanation relates to the level of PCR testing carried out in the two countries. Israel uses a more sensitive or stringent PCR testing regime than the UK.

Genetic matter from the virus is amplified in cycles by PCR tests. The more cycles that are run, the more likely the lab is to detect the virus. Israel uses 37 amplifying cycles, which means that you are positive for the coronavirus even if the test process required up to 37 cycles to detect the virus.

“If the PCR testing is less sensitive, England may miss some cases – or Israel may catch more cases – and that could play a role in the numbers,” Cohen said. 


FINALLY, a separate Oxford University study that was published over the weekend found that an eight-week gap between the first and second doses of the Pfizer vaccine is a “sweet spot” when it comes to generating neutralizing antibodies. 

When England launched its vaccination campaign, it did not have enough doses to vaccinate the population according to Pfizer’s recommended regime of two doses three weeks apart. As such, it spread doses out to between four and 12 weeks to allow more people to get at least one jab. 

Specifically, the new research showed that neutralizing antibody levels, the level of those antibodies responsible for defending cells from pathogens, were higher after the extended dosing interval (six to 14 weeks) compared to the conventional three-to-four-week regime.

In contrast, the T cell response was of a marginally lower magnitude after the longer dosing interval. T cells provide longer-term immunity and scientists believe that they could provide some immunity to COVID-19, even when antibodies become less effective at fighting the disease.

“The question is would you wait eight weeks when there is a pandemic?” Cohen asked, noting that separate studies have shown that one dose of the Pfizer vaccine is only around 30% effective against the Delta variant, which would leave the population vulnerable for two months. “It’s a tough question.”

Cohen's solution is to provide a third shot to the most vulnerable people, which new research is starting to show does a good job in boosting antibody levels.

“We are still learning the best way to immunize people with these vaccines,” he said. “But we are still in the middle of the pandemic.”

Horizon Special: The Vaccine

The extraordinary inside story of the biggest scientific challenge of our age – following a small band of vaccine scientists around the world who took on Covid-19 and ultimately delivered the weapon to beat it.

Spoiler:

Ajeje Brazorf wrote:
https://www.blic.rs/vesti/drustvo/strucni-komitet-preporucio-trecu-dozu-vakcine-sest-meseci-posle-druge-i-to-od-ova-dva/0h73h1z

Marius Lăcătuș wrote:

Ajeje Brazorf wrote:
https://www.blic.rs/vesti/drustvo/strucni-komitet-preporucio-trecu-dozu-vakcine-sest-meseci-posle-druge-i-to-od-ova-dva/0h73h1z

super što su za nama koji bi buster od iste fele kao prve 2 doze (znači kinez) povukli vodu....

"Svi građani imaju prava da prime treću dozu" 
Kada je reč o trećoj dozi vakcine, Stručni komitet je dao preporuku za nju.
"Svi se spremamo da mirno dočekamo jesen i razmišljamo o čuvanju zdravlja i mislim da jedan veliki deo građana postupa onako kako treba, a treća doza je nešto što nam treba posebno za određene kategorija stanovništva", rekao je Đerlek.
Ističe da su to hronični bolesnici, pacijenti sa malignim bolestima, transplantirani pacijenti, posebno oni sa transplantacijom koštane srži, pacijenti stariji od 70 godina, pacijenti stariji od 60 godina u domovima za stare, zaposleni u zdravstvu i službama socijalne zaštite.
"Moramo biti jasni da imaju pravo i svi građani gde nije bilo očekivanog imunološkog odgovora da se jave i prime treću dozu", dodao je Đerlek.
Na pitanje da li je preporuka da se uzme ista vakcina ili ne, Đerlek kaže da je preporuka da treća doza bude "Fajzerova" ili "Modernina" vakcina, koja će doći na jesen.
"Ali to ne isključuje da možemo birati bilo koju od četiri vakcine koje je odbrila naša Agencija za lekove", poručio je Đerlek.
Na pitanje zašto "Fajzerova" ili "Modernina", Đerlek kaže su ispitivanja koja su vršena na velikom uzorku u svetu i na osnovu iskustva koja ima Stručni komitet pokazala da daju brži imunološki odgovor.
"Međutim, i sve ostale vakcine su kvalitetne i ne možemo ih zanemariti", naglasio je Đerlek.

"Zdravstveni radnici treba da pokažu odgovornost"
Govoreći o obaveznoj vakcinaciji zdravstvenih radnika, Đerlek kaže da oni treba da pokažu primer i odgovornost i da ne mogu lečiti ljude ako postoji mogućnost da ih zaraze.
"S druge strane, ne možemo dozvoliti da ljudi koji dođu i budu negativni na antigenskom testu zaraze zdravstvene radnike", kaže Đerlek.
Naglasio je da podržava obaveznu vakcinaciju zdravstvenih radnika.
"Država neće nameteti globalnu obaveznu vakcinaciju stanovništva, ostavićemo i dalje da ljudi biraju da li će se vakcinisati ili ne i to na savest i odgovornost", zaključio je Đerlek.

Children aged 12 to 17 years across the European Union are now eligible to receive pharma company Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine, Spikevax, after a decision from the European Medicines Agency (EMA).

https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/ema-approves-second-vaccine-for-children-aged-12-to-17-in-eu/

Broj doza: 5.434.201 – prva doza 2.781.495, druga doza 2.652.706
Državljani RS – prva doza 2.629.280, druga doza 2.531.864
Strani državljani sa boravkom u RS – prva doza 8.658, druga doza 8.006
Strani državljani bez boravka u RS – prva doza 143.557, druga doza 112.836

Broj doza: 5.487.620 – prva doza 2.812.641, druga doza 2.674.979
Državljani RS – prva doza 2.656.365, druga doza 2.547.765
Strani državljani sa boravkom u RS – prva doza 8.839, druga doza 8.142
Strani državljani bez boravka u RS – prva doza 147.437, druga doza 119.072