KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000)

Sergen Yalçın

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Post by Sergen Yalçın on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:34 pm

ali u sustini, delimicno se slazem s tobom i znam sta si hteo da kazes, samo si mozda upotrebio prejake reci.


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Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:36 pm

Ali većina tih scena su "naknadna" sećanja!

Slažem se da porodica jeste prikazana idilično, ali upravo zato ta scena sa biciklom toliko odskače - a i dešava se neposredno pred očevu smrt. Zato mislim da je veoma bitna, jer nam prikazuje traumatsko mesto.


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Sergen Yalçın

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Post by Sergen Yalçın on Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:58 pm

ok, u principu jesi u pravu.


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Somlói Galuska

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Post by Somlói Galuska on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:04 am

Pa da, traumatsko mesto se sastoji u tome što nije uspeo da vozi bicikl, a onda je otac koji je trebalo da ga nauči (da živi, opstaje) poginuo. Zato "priziva" oca da mu iz prošlosti pomogne da reši sadašnje probleme.
Usput, dužan sam samo jedno objašnjenje - kad pišem ovo o dugim i kratkim kosama, ne mislim da je u pitanju sad neka specijalna zavera između producenta, scenariste i reditelja. :) U pitanju su klasične holivudske ideološke matrice, jer ipak je holivud mesto gde je desnica dominantna, ni manje ni više od toga. Film je dobar jer je jednostavan, zanimljiv i ubedljiv. Pošto ovo nije Godar :), ideološke primese nisu toliko bitne.
Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:14 am

Ali nije tako prosto - otac ni dok je bio živ nije uspeo da ga nauči, ne zato što nije imao vremena, nego zato što je bio previše zahtevan, ili previše strog. Klinac od tog podučavanja beži kod majke, u kuću. Otac je vidno razočaran - sin je mamina maza. To je traumatsko mesto.


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Somlói Galuska

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Post by Somlói Galuska on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:16 am

Ne, to majka kaže da je otac previše zahtevan, ali mi ne vidimo nigde da je on previše zahtevan, već da je mali "mekan".
Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:24 am

E sad, nije šija nego vrat KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000) - Page 2 3579118792 - poenta je u tome da trauma prethodi očevoj smrti, odnosno da je do prekida u prenošenju očeve uloge na sina, došlo već pre očeve smrti.

Mada - kada se lekcija bude ponovila, razliit nije klinac, nego otac, koji je sada pažljiviji i nežniji. Dakle, nije problem u sinovljevoj "mekanosti", nego u očevoj nestrpljivosti.


_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Somlói Galuska

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Post by Somlói Galuska on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:34 am

Pa ne znam baš - opet gledaš kroz siže, a ne kroz sliku - šta je otac realno uradio drugačije drugi put? Malo je držao duže bicikl, to je sve.
Mislim, za tu scenu (prvu, ne ponavljanje), je bitno kakav je portret oca, a on je zabrinuti zaštitnik, čak spreman da prizna svoju grešku (za koju i ne vidimo baš u čemu je, osim što mu majka prebacuje da je zahtevan).
Ne postoji nikakva eksplicitna razlika u postupcima oca u prvoj i drugoj sceni.
Ali, dobro, to su sve sitne stvari, prikaz šezdesetih je već mnogo očigledniji.

edit - mislim "prikaz" možda nije dobra reč, već akcentovanje određenog miljea i oda njemu, oda porodici iz vremena kada je seksualna revolucija bila valjda bitniji događaj. Svako slavi ono što hoće, a Holivud i dalje hoće da slavi porodicu.
Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:49 am

Razlika je u tome šta otac kaže sinu i šta od njega očekuje - u prvom slučaju očekuje da klinac bude odmah samostalan i sposoban da sam savlada izazov, u drugom, ne očekuje to od njega, nego mu kaže da će on biti tu sa njim sve vreme da mu pomogne.

Ovo nije odraz samo očevog odnosa prema sinu, nego i prema muškoj ulozi kao takvoj - to je takođe nešto što se menja tokom filma. Simptomatično - kad sin kaže ocu da mora da prestane da puši, otac će mu reći - "you sound just like your mother", da bi kasnije prihvatio njegov savet. Dakle - ne samo da je otac tu da pomogne sinu da usvoji svoj mesto u simboličkom poretku, već se i otac kao agent tog poretka i sam menja u ovoj interakciji.


_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Somlói Galuska

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Post by Somlói Galuska on Thu Nov 20, 2014 12:52 am

Da, prestaje da puši. :)
Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:06 am

ALi pazi, kao što duga kosa nije samo duga kosa, tako ni pušenje nije samo pušenje.

KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000) - Page 2 Camelman2


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Somlói Galuska

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Post by Somlói Galuska on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:09 am

Mislim, da se ne zajebavamo, otac je taj koji je uspostavljen kao heroj u prvoj sceni, dok je sin taj koji ima probleme. Film se završava tako što vidimo da je sin napravio porodicu, i to je najvažniji bilans promena.
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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:13 am

Ne znam čemu vraćanje na tu simplifiaciju, kad smo u razgovoru već otkrili da je stvar mnogo složenija.


_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Somlói Galuska

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Post by Somlói Galuska on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:17 am

Pa to je ključna stvar, sin ne može da postigne heroizam oca, ne može da uspostavi porodicu (prvi put kad ga vidimo kao odraslog, vidimo da mu veza puca), na kraju vidimo da je ipak uspeo, prizvavši duhove prošlosti.
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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:27 am

Pa može i tako, ako ignorišeš sve ostalo što se nalazi u filmu. KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000) - Page 2 3579118792


_____
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Post by Somlói Galuska on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:05 am

'Ajde malo da promenimo tok razgovora, da vidimo šta kaže pokojni, ali još uvek živi starac Ebert. :)



I know exactly where the tape is, in which box, on which shelf. It's an old reel-to-reel tape I used with the tape recorder my dad bought me in grade school. It has his voice on it. The box has moved around with me for a long time, but I have never listened to the tape since my dad died. I don't think I could stand it. It would be too heartbreaking.

I thought about the tape as I was watching Gregory Hoblit's "Frequency." Here is a movie that uses the notion of time travel to set up a situation where a man in 1999 is able to talk to his father in 1969, even though his father died when the man was 6. The movie harnesses this notion to a lot of nonsense, including a double showdown with a killer, but the central idea is strong and carries us along. There must be something universal about our desire to defeat time, which in the end defeats us.

The father in 1969 is named Frank Sullivan (Dennis Quaid). He is a firefighter, and he dies heroically while trying to save a life in a warehouse fire. The son in 1999 is named John Sullivan (Jim Caviezel), and he has broken with three generations of family tradition to become a policeman instead of a fireman. One night he's rummaging under the stairs of the family house where he still lives and finds a trunk containing his dad's old ham radio. The plot provides some nonsense about sunspots and the Northern Lights, but never mind: What matters is that the father and the son can speak to each other across a gap of 30 years.

The paradox of time travel is familiar. If you could travel back in time to change the past in order to change the future, you would already have done so, and therefore the changes would have resulted in the present that you now occupy. Of course the latest theories of quantum physics speculate that time may be a malleable dimension, and that countless new universes are splitting off from countless old ones all the time--we can't see them because we're always on the train, not in the station, and the view out the window is of this and this and this, not that and that.

But "Frequency" is not about physics, and the heroes are as baffled as we are by the paradoxes they get involved in. Consider a scene where the father uses a soldering iron to burn into a desk the message: I'm still here, Chief. His son sees the letters literally appearing in 1999 as they are written in 1969. How can this be? If they were written in 1969, wouldn't they have already been on the desk for 30 years? Not at all, the movie argues, because every action in the past changes the future into a world in which that action has taken place.

Therefore--and here is the heart of the story--the son, knowing what he knows now, can reach back in time and save his father's life by telling him what he did wrong during that fatal fire. And the father and son can exchange information that will help each one fight a serial killer who, in various timeline configurations, is active now, then and in between, and threatens both men, and in some configurations, the fireman's wife. How do the voices know they can trust each other? The voice in the future can tell the voice in the past exactly what's going to happen with the Amazing Mets in the '69 series.

Are you following this? Neither did I, half the time. At one point both the father and the son are fighting the same man at points 30 years separated, and when the father shoots off the 1969 man's hand, it disappears from the 1999 version of the man. But then the 1999 man would remember how he lost the hand, right? And therefore would know--but, no, not in this time line he wouldn't.

There may be holes and inconsistencies in the plot. I was too confused to be sure. And I don't much care, anyway, because the underlying idea is so appealing--that a son who doesn't remember his father could talk to him via radio and they could try to help each other. This notion is fleshed out by the father's wife (Elizabeth Mitchell), who must also be saved by the time-talkers, by partners in the fire and police department, and so on. By the end of the movie, the villain (Shawn Doyle) is fighting father and son simultaneously, and there is only one way to watch the movie, and that is with complete and unquestioning credulity. To attempt to unravel the plot leads to frustration, if not madness.

Moviegoers seem to like supernatural stories that promise some kind of escape from our mutual doom. "Frequency" is likely to appeal to the fans of "The Sixth Sense," "Ghost" and other movies where the characters find a loophole in reality. What it also has in common with those two movies is warmth and emotion. Quaid and Caviezel bond over the radio, and we believe the feelings they share. The ending of the movie is contrived, but then of course it is: The whole movie is contrived. The screenplay conferences on "Frequency" must have gone on and on, as writer Toby Emmerich and the filmmakers tried to fight their way through the maze they were creating. The result, however, appeals to us for reasons as simple as hearing the voice of a father who you thought you would never hear again.
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/frequency-2000
Indy

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Post by Indy on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:44 am

Sad odgledah, bilo je bas dobro. Nesto mi se uopste ne pametuje na temu ovog filma, pa to prepustam drugima. (Btw, napravio sam intermeco na pola filma i pozvao oca skajpom).
Sergen Yalçın

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Post by Sergen Yalçın on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:45 am

pa lepo. KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000) - Page 2 4101625831


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Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:47 am

former informer wrote:Sad odgledah, bilo je bas dobro. Nesto mi se uopste ne pametuje na temu ovog filma, pa to prepustam drugima. (Btw, napravio sam intermeco na pola filma i pozvao oca skajpom).

KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000) - Page 2 903208043

Možda najbolja interpretacija filma.


_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Sergen Yalçın

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Post by Sergen Yalçın on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:00 pm

a sta cemo sledece da gledamo?


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Ferenz

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Post by Ferenz on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:07 pm

Kod mene se Frequency daje večeras. KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000) - Page 2 1844795956
Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:34 pm

Super! Nema žurbe, sledeći film tek u ponedeljak (ipak je dobro što je na nedelju dana).

Santino, nemamo još nikakvih planova, slobodno predloži ti ako imaš nešto na pameti.


_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Sergen Yalçın

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Post by Sergen Yalçın on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:46 pm

nemam bas nista, gledao sam malopre serpico jer ste pomenuli, odlican film.


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Erős Pista

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Post by Erős Pista on Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:59 pm

Jedan od filmova koje pogledam svaki put kad zakačim na tv-u!


Evo ti jedna zvrčka, za prave fanove.




_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
Sergen Yalçın

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Post by Sergen Yalçın on Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:07 pm

vrh! KINO KLUB 1: Frequency (2000) - Page 2 1233199462


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