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    Virus

    disident

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    Post by disident Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:51 pm

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/coronavirus-turkey-faulty-chinese-kits-not-use

    [size=49]Coronavirus: Turkey rejects Chinese testing kits over inaccurate results[/size]

    Rapid testing kits were only 30 to 35 percent accurate, says official, as Ankara orders separate batch from another Chinese company


    _____
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    Jedini proleter Burundija
    Pristalica krvne osvete
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:03 pm

    Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez on Saturday announced stricter lockdown measures that will force all non-essential workers to stay at home for the next two weeks, as the government reported 832 new coronavirus deaths overnight.
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-spain/spanish-pm-announces-stricter-lockdown-measures-to-tackle-coronavirus-idUKKBN21F0E5?rpc=401&
    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:45 pm

    Šlag na tortu kr što je gomila vlada naselo na nepouzdane proizvođače testova, preko Ali babe izgleda, pošto nisu po Kinezima registrovani proizvođači.
    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:51 pm

    Erzsebet Palatinus wrote:.

    U međuvremenu, urlik na 24. sekundi

    Архитектонски аспект овог клипа је најјачи.
    Терасе углавном без ограде, или она бетонска лучна ниска ко за патуљке, као и она испод крова на крају клипа.
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    Post by MNE Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:01 pm

    i ker na kraju koji kao da igra uz muziku
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:03 pm

    Why the US is leading the world in confirmed coronavirus cases



    ...

    One relative bright spot has been that the fatality rate in the US based on confirmed cases has remained relatively low so far -- 1.5 percent, compared to 7.7 percent in Spain and 10 percent in Italy.

    Will this trend continue? The short answer is we don't know, and the experts are divided.

    "Low CFR (case fatality rate) is not reassuring," David Fisman, an epidemiologist at the University of Toronto, told AFP.

    "It will rise because it takes people time to die. My best guess is that the US is on the cusp of an absolutely disastrous outbreak."

    The experts agreed that nationwide social distancing measures were urgently needed to continue to try to "flatten the curve" -- slowing the rate of infection so that hospitals aren't overrun, as the case is currently in New York.

    But from a scientific point of view, the pathogen could "down mutate" and become less virulent as time goes on, said Kelen, as similar viruses typically do.

    The heat and humidity of summer could also slow its spread, experts have said.

    Forecasters at the University of Washington's School of Medicine believe the peak of the outbreak may come in mid-April with more than 80,000 deaths, based on current trends.

    Their model suggests 38,000 deaths at the lower end and 162,000 at the higher end.

    By way of comparison, influenza and pneumonia killed 34,000 people in the 2018-2019 flu season.

    https://www.france24.com/en/20200327-why-the-us-is-leading-the-world-in-confirmed-coronavirus-cases
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:41 pm

    Lekcije iz Italije:

    Lessons from Italy’s Response to Coronavirus
    by Gary P. Pisano , Raffaella Sadun and Michele Zanini
    March 27, 2020



    As policymakers around the world struggle to combat the rapidly escalating Covid-19 pandemic, they find themselves in uncharted territory. Much has been written about the practices and policies used in countries such as China, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan to stifle the pandemic. Unfortunately, throughout much of Europe and the United States, it is already too late to contain Covid-19 in its infancy, and policymakers are struggling to keep up with the spreading pandemic. In doing so, however, they are repeating many of the errors made early on in Italy, where the pandemic has turned into a disaster. The purpose of this article is to help U.S. and European policymakers at all levels learn from Italy’s mistakes so they can  recognize and address the unprecedented challenges presented by the rapidly expanding crisis.

    In a matter of weeks (from February 21 to March 22), Italy went from the discovery of the first official Covid-19 case to a government decree that essentially prohibited all movements of people within the whole territory, and the closure of all non-essential business activities. Within this very short time period, the country has been hit by nothing short of a tsunami of unprecedented force, punctuated by an incessant stream of deaths. It is unquestionably Italy’s biggest crisis since World War II.

    Some aspects of this crisis — starting with its timing — can undoubtedly be attributed to plain and simple sfortuna (“bad luck” in Italian) that were clearly not under the full control of policymakers. Other aspects, however, are emblematic of the profound obstacles that leaders in Italy faced in recognizing the magnitude of the threat posed by Covid-19, organizing a systematic response to it, and learning from early implementation successes — and, most importantly, failures.

    It is worth emphasizing that these obstacles emerged even after Covid-19 had already fully impacted in China and some alternative models for the containment of the virus (in China and elsewhere) had already been successfully implemented. What this suggests is a systematic failure to absorb and act upon existing information rapidly and effectively rather than a complete lack of knowledge of what ought to be done.

    Here are explanations for that failure — which relate to the difficulties of making decisions in real time, when a crisis is unfolding — and ways to overcome them.

    Recognize your cognitive biases. In its early stages, the Covid-19 crisis in Italy looked nothing like a crisis. The initial state-of-emergency declarations were met by skepticism by both the public and many in policy circles — even though several scientists had been warning of the potential for a catastrophe for weeks. Indeed, in late February some notable Italian politicians engaged in public handshaking in Milan to make the point that the economy should not panic and stop because of the virus. (A week later, one of these politicians was diagnosed with Covid-19.)

    Similar reactions were repeated across many other countries besides Italy and exemplify what behavioral scientists call confirmation bias — a tendency to seize upon information that confirms our preferred position or initial hypothesis. Threats such as pandemics that evolve in a nonlinear fashion (i.e., they start small but exponentially intensify) are especially tricky to confront because of the challenges of rapidly interpreting what is happening in real time. The most effective time to take strong action is extremely early, when the threat appears to be small — or even before there are any cases. But if the intervention actually works, it will appear in retrospect as if the strong actions were an overreaction. This is a game many politicians don’t want to play.

    The systematic inability to listen to experts highlights the trouble that leaders — and people in general — have figuring out how to act in dire, highly complex situations where there’s no easy solution. The desire to act causes leaders to rely on their gut feeling or the opinions of their inner circle. But in a time of uncertainty, it is essential to resist that temptation, and instead take the time to discover, organize, and absorb the partial knowledge that is dispersed across different pockets of expertise.

    Avoid partial solutions. A second lesson that can be drawn from the Italian experience is the importance of systematic approaches and the perils of partial solutions. The Italian government dealt with the Covid-19 pandemic by issuing a series of decrees that gradually increased restrictions within lockdown areas (“red zones”), which were then expanded until they ultimately applied to the entire country.

    In normal times, this approach would probably be considered prudent and perhaps even wise. In this situation, it backfired for two reasons. First, it was inconsistent with the rapid exponential spread of the virus. The “facts on the ground” at any point in time were simply not predictive of what the situation would be just a few days later. As a result, Italy followed the spread of the virus rather than prevented it. Second, the selective approach might have inadvertently facilitated the spread of the virus. Consider the decision to initially lock down some regions but not others. When the degree announcing the closing of northern Italy became public, it touched off a massive exodus to southern Italy, undoubtedly spreading the virus to regions where it had not been present.

    This illustrates is what is now clear to many observers: An effective response to the virus needs to be orchestrated as a coherent system of actions taken simultaneously. The results of the approaches taken in China and South Korea underscore this point. While the public discussion of the policies followed in these countries often focuses on single elements of their models (such as extensive testing), what truly characterizes their effective responses is the multitude of actions that were taken at once. Testing is effective when it’s combined with rigorously contact tracing, and tracing is effective as long as it is combined with an effective communication system that collects and disseminates information on the movements of potentially infected people, and so forth.

    These rules also apply to the organization of the health care system itself. Wholesale reorganizations are needed within hospitals (for example, the creation of Covid-19 and non Covid-19 streams of care). In addition, a shift is urgently needed from patient-centered models of care to a community-system approach that offers pandemic solutions for the entire population (with a specific emphasis on home care). The need for coordinated actions is especially acute right now in the United States.

    Learning is critical. Finding the right implementation approach requires the ability to quickly learn from both successes and failures and the willingness to change actions accordingly. Certainly, there are valuable lessons to be learned from the approaches of China, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore, which were able to contain the contagion fairly early. But sometimes the best practices can be found just next door. Because the Italian health care system is highly decentralized, different regions tried different policy responses. The most notable example is the contrast between the approaches taken by Lombardy and Veneto, two neighboring regions with similar socioeconomic profiles.

    Lombardy, one Europe’s wealthiest and most productive areas, has been disproportionately hit by Covid-19. As of March 26, it held the grim record of nearly 35,000 novel coronavirus cases and 5,000 deaths in a population of 10 million. Veneto, by contrast, fared significantly better, with 7,000 cases and 287 deaths in a population of 5 million, despite experiencing sustained community spread early on.

    The trajectories of these two regions have been shaped by a multitude of factors outside the control of policymakers, including Lombardy’s greater population density and higher number of cases when the crisis erupted. But it’s becoming increasingly apparent that different public health choices made early in the cycle of the pandemic also had an impact.

    Specifically, while Lombardy and Veneto applied similar approaches to social distancing and retail closures, Veneto took a much more proactive tack towards the containment of the virus. Veneto’s strategy was multi-pronged:

    - Extensive testing of symptomatic and asymptomatic cases early on.
    - Proactive tracing of potential positives. If someone tested positive, everyone in that patient’s home as well as their neighbors were tested. If testing kits were unavailable, they were self-quarantined.
    - A strong emphasis on home diagnosis and care. Whenever possible, samples were collected directly from a patient’s home and then processed in regional and local university labs.
    - Specific efforts to monitor and protect health care and other essential workers. They included medical professionals, those in contact with at-risk populations (e.g., caregivers in nursing homes), and workers exposed to the public (e.g., supermarket cashiers, pharmacists, and protective services staff).
    - Following the guidance from public health authorities in the central government, Lombardy opted instead for a more conservative approach to testing. On a per capita basis, it has so far conducted half of the tests conducted in Veneto and had a much stronger focus only on symptomatic cases — and has so far made limited investments in proactive tracing, home care and monitoring, and protection of health care workers.

    The set of policies enacted in Veneto are thought to have considerably reduced the burden on hospitals and minimized the risk of Covid-19 spreading in medical facilities, a problem that has greatly impacted hospitals in Lombardy. The fact that different policies resulted in different outcomes across otherwise similar regions should have been recognized as a powerful learning opportunity from the start. The findings emerging from Veneto could have been used to revisit regional and central policies early on. Yet, it is only in recent days, a full month after the outbreak in Italy, that Lombardy and other regions are taking steps to emulate some of the aspects of the “Veneto approach,” which include pressuring the central government to help them boost their diagnostic capacity.

    The difficulty in diffusing newly acquired knowledge is a well-known phenomenon in both private- and the public-sector organizations. But, in our view, accelerating the diffusion of knowledge that is emerging from different policy choices (in Italy and elsewhere) should be considered a top priority at a time when “every country is reinventing the wheel,” as several scientists told us. For that to happen, especially at this time of heightened uncertainty, it is essential to consider different policies as if they were “experiments,” rather than personal or political battles, and to adopt a mindset (as well as systems and processes) that facilitates learning from past and current experiences in dealing with Covid-19 as effectively and rapidly as possible.

    It is especially important to understand what does not work. While successes easily surface thanks to leaders eager to publicize progress, problems often are hidden due to fear of retribution, or, when they do emerge, they are interpreted as individual — rather than systemic — failures. For example, it emerged that at the very early onset of the pandemic in Italy (February 25), the contagion in a specific area in Lombardy could have been accelerated through a local hospital, where a Covid-19 patient was not been properly diagnosed and isolated. In talking to the media, the Italian prime minister referred to this incident as evidence of managerial inadequacy at the specific hospital. However, a month later it became clearer that the episode might have been emblematic of a much deeper issue: that hospitals traditionally organized to deliver patient-centric care are ill-equipped to deliver the type of community-focused care needed during a pandemic.

    Collecting and disseminating data is important. Italy seems to have suffered from two data-related problems. In the early onset of the pandemic, the problem was data paucity. More specifically, it has been suggested that the widespread and unnoticed diffusion of the virus in the early months of 2020 may have been facilitated by the lack of epidemiological capabilities and the inability to systematically record anomalous infection peaks in some hospitals.

    More recently, the problem appears to be one of data precision. In particular, in spite of the remarkable effort that the Italian government has shown in regularly updating statistics relative to the pandemic on a publicly available website, some commentators have advanced the hypothesis that the striking discrepancy in mortality rates between Italy and other countries and within Italian regions may (at least in part) be driven by different testing approaches. These discrepancies complicate the management of the pandemic in significant ways, because in absence of truly comparable data (within and across countries) it is harder to allocate resources and understand what’s working where (for example, what’s inhibiting the effective tracing of the population).

    In an ideal scenario, data documenting the spread and effects of the virus should be as standardized as possible across regions and countries and follow the progression of the virus and its containment at both a macro (state) and micro (hospital) level. The need for micro-level data cannot be underestimated. While the discussion of health care quality is often made in terms of macro entities (countries or states), it is well known that health care facilities vary dramatically in terms of the quality and quantity of the services they provide and their managerial capabilities, even within the same states and regions. Rather than hiding these underlying differences, we should be fully aware of them and plan the allocation of our limited resources accordingly. Only by having good data at the right level of analysis can policymakers and health care practitioners draw proper inferences about which approaches are working and which are not.

    A Different Decision-Making Approach

    There is still tremendous uncertainty on what exactly needs to be done to stop the virus. Several key aspects of the virus are still unknown and hotly debated, and are likely to remain so for a considerable amount of time. Furthermore, significant lags occur between the time of action (or, in many cases, inaction) and outcomes (both infections and mortality). We need to accept that an unequivocal understanding of what solutions work is likely to take several months, if not years.

    However, two aspects of this crisis appear to be clear from the Italian experience. First, there is no time to waste, given the exponential progression of the virus. As the head of the Italian Protezione Civile (the Italian equivalent of FEMA) put it, “The virus is faster than our bureaucracy.” Second, an effective approach towards Covid-19 will require a war-like mobilization — both in terms of the entity of human and economic resources that will need to be deployed as well as the extreme coordination that will be required across different parts of the health care system (testing facilities, hospitals, primary care physicians, etc.), between different entities in both the public and the private sector, and society at large.

    Together, the need for immediate action and for massive mobilization imply that an effective response to this crisis will require a decision-making approach that is far from business as usual. If policymakers want to win the war against Covid-19, it is essential to adopt one that is systemic, prioritizes learning, and is able to quickly scale successful experiments and identify and shut down the ineffective ones. Yes, this a tall order — especially in the midst of such an enormous crisis. But given the stakes, it has to be done.

    https://hbr.org/2020/03/lessons-from-italys-response-to-coronavirus
    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:48 pm

    Да се исправим, у самоизолацији је данас 65 хиљада особа.
    https://data.gov.rs/en/datasets/covid-19-samoizolatsija/
    disident

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    Post by disident Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:47 pm

    Virus - Page 28 3579118792


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    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:04 pm

    Virus - Page 28 PbF4l2P
    In Wuhan, China, people with mild COVID-19 cases were taken to large facilities and not permitted to see their families. “Infected people must be isolated. That should happen everywhere,” George Gao says.
    STR/AFP VIA GETTY IMAGES

    Not wearing masks to protect against coronavirus is a ‘big mistake,’ top Chinese scientist says
    By Jon CohenMar. 27, 2020 , 6:15 PM

    Chinese scientists at the front of that country’s outbreak of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) have not been particularly accessible to foreign media. Many have been overwhelmed trying to understand their epidemic and combat it, and responding to media requests, especially from journalists outside of China, has not been a top priority.

    Science has tried to interview George Gao, director-general of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), for 2 months. Last week he responded.

    Gao oversees 2000 employees—one-fifth the staff size of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention—and he remains an active researcher himself. In January, he was part of a team that did the first isolation and sequencing of severe acute respiratory syndrome 2 (SARS-CoV-2), the virus that causes COVID-19. He co-authored two widely read papers published in The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) that provided some of the first detailed epidemiology and clinical features of the disease, and has published three more papers on COVID-19 in The Lancet.

    His team also provided important data to a joint commission between Chinese researchers and a team of international scientists, organized by the World Health Organization (WHO), that wrote a landmark report after touring the country to understand the response to the epidemic.

    First trained as a veterinarian, Gao later earned a Ph.D. in biochemistry at the University of Oxford and did postdocs there and at Harvard University, specializing in immunology and virology. His research specializes in viruses that have fragile lipid membranes called envelopes—a group that includes SARS-CoV-2—and how they enter cells and also move between species.

    Gao answered Science’s questions over several days via text, voicemails, and phone conversations. This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.

    Q: What can other countries learn from the way China has approached COVID-19?

    A: Social distancing is the essential strategy for the control of any infectious diseases, especially if they are respiratory infections. First, we used “nonpharmaceutical strategies,” because you don’t have any specific inhibitors or drugs and you don’t have any vaccines. Second, you have to make sure you isolate any cases. Third, close contacts should be in quarantine: We spend a lot of time trying to find all these close contacts, and to make sure they are quarantined and isolated. Fourth, suspend public gatherings. Fifth, restrict movement, which is why you have a lockdown, the cordon sanitaire in French.

    Q: The lockdown in China began on 23 January in Wuhan and was expanded to neighboring cities in Hubei province. Other provinces in China had less restrictive shutdowns. How was all of this coordinated, and how important were the “supervisors” overseeing the efforts in neighborhoods?

    A: You have to have understanding and consensus. For that you need very strong leadership, at the local and national level. You need a supervisor and coordinator working with the public very closely. Supervisors need to know who the close contacts are, who the suspected cases are. The supervisors in the community must be very alert. They are key.

    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.

    Q: What about other control measures? China has made aggressive use of thermometers at the entrances to stores, buildings, and public transportation stations, for instance.

    A: Yes. Anywhere you go inside in China, there are thermometers. You have to try to take people’s temperatures as often as you can to make sure that whoever has a high fever stays out.

    And a really important outstanding question is how stable this virus is in the environment. Because it’s an enveloped virus, people think it’s fragile and particularly sensitive to surface temperature or humidity. But from both U.S. results and Chinese studies, it looks like it’s very resistant to destruction on some surfaces. It may be able to survive in many environments. We need to have science-based answers here.

    Q: People who tested positive in Wuhan but only had mild disease were sent into isolation in large facilities and were not allowed to have visits from family. Is this something other countries should consider?

    A: Infected people must be isolated. That should happen everywhere. You can only control COVID-19 if you can remove the source of the infection. This is why we built module hospitals and transformed stadiums into hospitals.

    Q: There are many questions about the origin of the outbreak in China. Chinese researchers have reported that the earliest case dates back to 1 December 2019. What do you think of the report in the South China Morning Post that says data from the Chinese government show there were cases in November 2019, with the first one on 17 November?

    A: There is no solid evidence to say we already had clusters in November. We are trying to better understand the origin.

    Q: Wuhan health officials linked a large cluster of cases to the Huanan seafood market and closed it on 1 January. The assumption was that a virus had jumped to humans from an animal sold and possibly butchered at the market. But in your paper in NEJM, which included a retrospective look for cases, you reported that four of the five earliest infected people had no links to the seafood market. Do you think the seafood market was a likely place of origin, or is it a distraction—an amplifying factor but not the original source?

    A: That’s a very good question. You are working like a detective. From the very beginning, everybody thought the origin was the market. Now, I think the market could be the initial place, or it could be a place where the virus was amplified. So that’s a scientific question. There are two possibilities.

    Q: China was also criticized for not sharing the viral sequence immediately. The story about a new coronavirus came out in The Wall Street Journal on 8 January; it didn’t come from Chinese government scientists. Why not?

    A: That was a very good guess from The Wall Street Journal. WHO was informed about the sequence, and I think the time between the article appearing and the official sharing of the sequence was maybe a few hours. I don’t think it’s more than a day.

    Q: But a public database of viral sequences later showed that the first one was submitted by Chinese researchers on 5 January. So there were at least 3 days that you must have known that there was a new coronavirus. It’s not going to change the course of the epidemic now, but to be honest, something happened about reporting the sequence publicly.

    A: I don’t think so. We shared the information with scientific colleagues promptly, but this involved public health and we had to wait for policymakers to announce it publicly. You don’t want the public to panic, right? And no one in any country could have predicted that the virus would cause a pandemic. This is the first noninfluenza pandemic ever.

    Q: It wasn’t until 20 January that Chinese scientists officially said there was clear evidence of human-to-human transmission. Why do you think epidemiologists in China had so much difficulty seeing that it was occurring?

    A: Detailed epidemiological data were not available yet. And we were facing a very crazy and concealed virus from the very beginning. The same is true in Italy, elsewhere in Europe, and the United States: From the very beginning scientists, everybody thought: “Well, it’s just a virus.”

    Q: Spread in China has dwindled to a crawl, and the new confirmed cases are mainly people entering the country, correct?

    A: Yes. At the moment, we don’t have any local transmission, but the problem for China now is the imported cases. So many infected travelers are coming into China.

    Q: But what will happen when China returns to normal? Do you think enough people have become infected so that herd immunity will keep the virus at bay?

    A: We definitely don’t have herd immunity yet. But we are waiting for more definitive results from antibody tests that can tell us how many people really have been infected.

    Q: So what is the strategy now? Buying time to find effective medicines?

    A: Yes—our scientists are working on both vaccines and drugs.

    Q: Many scientists consider remdesivir to be the most promising drug now being tested. When do you think clinical trials in China of the drug will have data?

    A: In April.

    Q: Have Chinese scientists developed animal models that you think are robust enough to study pathogenesis and test drugs and vaccines?

    A: At the moment, we are using both monkeys and transgenic mice that have ACE2, the human receptor for the virus. The mouse model is widely used in China for drug and vaccine assessment, and I think there are at least a couple papers coming out about the monkey models soon. I can tell you that our monkey model works.

    Q: What do you think of President Donald Trump referring to the new coronavirus as the “China virus” or the “Chinese virus”?

    A: It’s definitely not good to call it the Chinese virus. The virus belongs to the Earth. The virus is our common enemy—not the enemy of any person or country.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/not-wearing-masks-protect-against-coronavirus-big-mistake-top-chinese-scientist-says
    kojot

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    Post by kojot Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:57 pm

    Mau wrote:Interesantno je da imamo dosta drugaciju percepciju stvari. 

    Nemam nikakve insajd informacije, nista iz prve ruke, procesuiram svojim skromnim kapacitetom javne informacije. 

    Ako bi me neko pitao koji su parametri epidemije, ja bih rekla da virus korona ima veliku infektivnu moc, da se prenosi lako i da je stvaran broj zarazenih mnogo veci. Ako Vucic i manipulise podacima, eventualno manipulise unutar broja testiranih. Ali mi prosto testiramo jako malo u odnosu na druge. Tako da prva tacka razilazenja nam je broj zarazenih. Vec sam ranije rekla, mislim da je broj dramaticno veci od stvarnog, ali da ovaj virus ne dovodi do simptoma kod svih, a do komplikacija kod jos manje ljudi. 

    Druga stvar je da mene jucasnja Vuciceva konferencija nije smirila, vec je bila prva koja me je uspanicila. Kada je poceo da mulja oko broja respiratora, da smo ispaljeni za 200 komada, shvatila sam da je to izvor nervoze. Bio je vidno skenjan. I sta me je jos iznerviralo, to sto je Goran Stevanovic rekao da ljudi ne cekaju da prodje samo od sebe, vec da to kod korone nece. Imam troje poznanika sa svim simptomima koji su sa temperaturama preko 38 zvali hitnu pomoc i da se testiraju i kojima je receno da sede kuci i da se jave tek kada krenu komplikacije sa disanjem. Sigurna sam da i vi imate primere u okolini. Zbog ove dve stvari me je uhvatila trta da oni ne znaju sta rade. Ali necu paniciti. 

    I konacno, razilazimo se oko toga da ce Vucic izaci sa velikom podrskom. 


    Evo besne na Pinku sad. Priprema se uvod za dalje zaostravanje.

    ne mislim da muljaju sa brojem zarazenih, mislim da je to preterivanje, ali je vec sigurno da cemo najvise najebati od svih zemalja ex yu. neverovatna nesposobnost na svakom koraku, sns bagra u celom lancu odgovornosti, to ce nas mnogo kostati.
    kondo

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    Post by kondo Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:03 am

    kako je u hanu? mogu samo da zamislim slušajući šta se dešava po vranju i slično


    _____
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    Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.
    ficfiric

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    Post by ficfiric Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:26 am

    Evo, i penzosi prave guzve, sad ci i njima Vucic ukine setnju

    Virus - Page 28 EUQSjaOX0AAgdu0?format=jpg&name=large


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    Uprava napolje!

    bela maca

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    Post by bela maca Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:28 am

    jadni ljudi jbt

    nadam se da će vučić platiti za ovo


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    Guest

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    Post by Guest Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:34 am

    ово у Алонсу?
    kondo

    Posts : 28265
    Join date : 2015-03-20

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    Post by kondo Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:40 am

    nisi dao sledecu sliku istog tvita, frizideri sa mesom koje je prekriveno najlonom. nemaju prodavce tako rano.


    _____
    #FreeFacu

    Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.
    Anonymous
    Guest

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    Post by Guest Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:46 am

    јбг, ја сам устајао око 4 (старом новом, јебем ли га) да залијем цвеће и погледам према максију који видим с прозора

    ред испред, никакво растојање између људи

    ово што су смислили за старије је и нефункционално, дискриминација и срамота
    паће

    Posts : 41651
    Join date : 2012-02-12
    Location : wife privilege

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    Post by паће Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:48 am

    Овакав идиотлук... дакле мера за смањење контакта унутар најризичније групе је да се сатерају чопоративно сви у дућане у исто време.
    Главе треба мењати. На канал!


    _____
       electric pencil sharpener is useless, electric pencils don't need to be sharpened at all
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    disident

    Posts : 15557
    Join date : 2016-03-27

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    Post by disident Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:03 am



    _____
    Što se ostaloga tiče, smatram da Zapad treba razoriti
    Jedini proleter Burundija
    Pristalica krvne osvete
    avatar

    Posts : 10317
    Join date : 2012-02-10

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    Post by Nino Quincampoix Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:04 am

    Patrick Devedjian, président des Hauts-de-Seine et ancien ministre, est mort du Covid-19.
    Mr.Pink

    Posts : 11141
    Join date : 2014-10-28
    Age : 45

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    Post by Mr.Pink Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:13 am

    nije dovoljno tiraninu odseci glavu

    treba nam magija penzicka


    _____
    radikalni patrijarhalni feminista

    smrk kod dijane hrk
    disident

    Posts : 15557
    Join date : 2016-03-27

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    Post by disident Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:30 am

    Zvuk pucketanja u daljini



    _____
    Što se ostaloga tiče, smatram da Zapad treba razoriti
    Jedini proleter Burundija
    Pristalica krvne osvete
    Anonymous
    Guest

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    Post by Guest Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:32 am

    Virus - Page 28 EUQhi6vWkAAdVKR?format=png&name=small
    avatar

    Posts : 7775
    Join date : 2017-03-14

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    Post by MNE Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:46 am

    budala se rukovala sa svakim, ko zna od koga mu je
    Ointagru Unartan

    Posts : 6735
    Join date : 2012-02-10

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:55 am

    Virus - Page 28 2-35


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.

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