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    Brexit

    Anonymous
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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Guest Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:46 pm

    William Murderface wrote:Pa Korbin jeste vodio Remain kampanju. Nije je vodio u zagrljaju sa Kameronom, ali to je vec drugi par rukava.

    Na stranu odbijanje da se pojavi zajedno sa Kameronom ili Blerom/Gordonom:



    ...
    This leads to me to the greatest betrayal and the final straw for many MPs. I have been told and shown evidence by an overwhelming number of unimpeachably neutral Labour remain staff that Corbyn’s office, for which he must take full responsibility, consistently attempted to weaken and sabotage the Labour remain campaign, in contravention of the party’s official position. For example, they resisted all polling and focus group evidence on message and tone, raised no campaign finance, failed to engage with the campaign delivery and deliberately weakened and damaged the argument Labour sought to make.
    Corbyn made only a smattering of campaign appearances, and they were lacklustre in delivery and critical of the EU in tone resulting in Labour voters not knowing the party’s position or hearing our argument. Corbyn’s infrequent campaign appearances and narrow focus, in turned limited the party’s appeal. He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real. It is. And it is working people and Labour communities that will pay the price. A price that is being felt right now.
    But as well as letting down Labour voters, he has also let down Labour members. Labour is a proud internationalist party and our conference, our members and our unions were clear that Labour should fight a strong Labour campaign to keep Britain in Europe.
    ...

    Phil Wilson
    Phil Wilson is the MP for Sedgefield and was chair of the Labour in for Britain group in the parliamentary Labour party
    Erős Pista

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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Erős Pista Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:50 pm

    Upravo. Korbin je to vise puta i rekao - da treba ostati i menjati EU iznutra (sto svako podrazumeva i promenu polozaja UK u EU). Mozda idealisticka, ali bar po meni, ispravna pozicija.



    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Erős Pista

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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Erős Pista Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:53 pm

    Gargantua wrote:
    William Murderface wrote:Pa Korbin jeste vodio Remain kampanju. Nije je vodio u zagrljaju sa Kameronom, ali to je vec drugi par rukava.

    Na stranu odbijanje da se pojavi zajedno sa Kameronom ili Blerom/Gordonom:



    ...
    This leads to me to the greatest betrayal and the final straw for many MPs. I have been told and shown evidence by an overwhelming number of unimpeachably neutral Labour remain staff that Corbyn’s office, for which he must take full responsibility, consistently attempted to weaken and sabotage the Labour remain campaign, in contravention of the party’s official position. For example, they resisted all polling and focus group evidence on message and tone, raised no campaign finance, failed to engage with the campaign delivery and deliberately weakened and damaged the argument Labour sought to make.
    Corbyn made only a smattering of campaign appearances, and they were lacklustre in delivery and critical of the EU in tone resulting in Labour voters not knowing the party’s position or hearing our argument. Corbyn’s infrequent campaign appearances and narrow focus, in turned limited the party’s appeal. He kept saying that the economic shock of Brexit was not real. It is. And it is working people and Labour communities that will pay the price. A price that is being felt right now.
    But as well as letting down Labour voters, he has also let down Labour members. Labour is a proud internationalist party and our conference, our members and our unions were clear that Labour should fight a strong Labour campaign to keep Britain in Europe.
    ...

    Phil Wilson
    Phil Wilson is the MP for Sedgefield and was chair of the Labour in for Britain group in the parliamentary Labour party


    Video sam to, ali bih voleo da znam sta se podrazumeva pid "deliberately sabotaging". Jedino konkretno sto sam uspeo da razumem jeste da je kampanju vodio drugacije nego sto oni smatraju da je trebalo i da je bio kritican prema EU. Meni to nije problem, a nije ni sabotaza.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Guest Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:59 pm

    To je taman ona osrednjost i uzan fokus, mereno potrebama kampanje. Poruka salivena samo za levo krilo partije, ne ni za celo članstvo a kamoli širu populaciju.


    No, njegova stvar, mislim da je tiho zadovoljan rezultatom referenduma i da veruje da u datim okolnostima može bolje da se trudi da implementira svoje ideje.
    Erős Pista

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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Erős Pista Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:02 pm

    To nije moj utisak, tim pre sto sad ima pobunu u partiji. Ja mislim da je iskreno podrzavao Remain, ali da nije zeleo da se utopi u Kameronovu platformu, i dobro je sto nije.


    Edit: ostale (centristicke laburiste i siru populaciju) su ionako u kampanji pokrivali drugi - ne samo Kameron nego i libdems.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Kinder Lad

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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Kinder Lad Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:24 pm

    ostap bender wrote:

    veoma je malo potrebno za kulturalizaciju problema. 

    taj proces je sada u punom zamahu.

    u medjuvremenu, prozapadne demonstracije u Londonu  Brexit - Page 28 1861198401

    Brexit - Page 28 CmDejbaWQAA53re


    Last edited by Kinder Lad on Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:27 pm; edited 1 time in total


    _____
    alt-lib
    Anonymous
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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Guest Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:26 pm

    ^^ Ima pobunu najvećim delom što je tako vodio kampanju kako je vodio - odgovarao je na druga pitanja od onih koja su na tiketu. A takvo vođenje kampanje je odvelo (dodatne) milione u naručje UKIPa.

    Laburisti, konze i lib-demovi su zajednički držali Stronger IN kampanju, delili poslove u štabu itd. Samo to što je insistirao na premisi da je nešto "Kameronova platforma" a nije uložio trud da pojača rad zajedničke ekipe koju je prethodno odobrio kako bi rekao "ne, to nije Kameronova nego zajednička platforma" je dovoljno samo po sebi da pokaže da ga je ili bolelo uvo ili je bio zainteresovan da sprovodi strogo svoju agendu, bugger the consequences. Bio je taman srećan da može da se separatiše.

    Na ovom pitanju je Kameron bio na njegovoj strani, svidelo se to njemu ili ne, a činjenica da je uložio napor da predstavi da to nije tako je koštala IN kampanju.


    Pre referenduma:



    Saturday 9 April 2016 23.02 BST

    Senior Labour MPs are calling on Jeremy Corbyn to “step up his efforts” in the campaign to keep the UK in the European Union amid mounting concern in the party that he is failing to argue the case with sufficient passion.

    The group, led by Chris Leslie, the former shadow chancellor, serve a warning that if the Brexit camp wins the referendum on 23 June, Corbyn will be held partly responsible as people on the losing side will ask whether the party leaders “did enough to pull their weight”.

    Writing in the Observer, Leslie and the former culture secretary, Ben Bradshaw, along with the former frontbench spokeswoman on Europe, Emma Reynolds, and Labour MP Adrian Bailey, say Corbyn needs to campaign “relentlessly for our EU membership with passion and without equivocation” from now until the vote takes place.
    ...

    --------------------------------------------------

    June 2, 2016

    Jeremy Corbyn has taken aim at his own side in the EU referendum campaign by claiming that Treasury forecasts about the dire consequences of a vote to leave were “histrionic” hype and “myth-making”.
    ...
    On Thursday he stunned some of his own colleagues with what one described as “deliberate sabotage” of the campaign to stay in the union.

    Attacking both sides for scaremongering, Mr Corbyn said there had been too many “prophesies of doom” surrounding the imminent vote. “Just over a week ago, George Osborne claimed that the British economy would enter a year-long recession if we voted to leave,” he said. “This is the same George Osborne who predicted his austerity policies would close the deficit by 2015. That is now scheduled for 2021.”

    Mr Osborne, the chancellor, had also wrongly predicted a “march of the makers” only to oversee a stagnation of the manufacturing sector, he added.

    Mr Corbyn’s speech on Thursday morning was supposed to mark his return to the pro-EU fray after a holiday and only a handful of prominent interventions during the debate. A recent leaked memo from the pro-EU campaign suggested that just half of Labour voters realised their party officially backed the “In” side.

    Yet Mr Corbyn’s speech in support of the bloc was laced with criticism of its shortfalls and an attack on the proposed US-EU trade deal known as TTIP. “None of us are satisfied with the EU as it is,” he said.

    par crtica posle


    25/06/2016

    Jeremy Corbyn’s close allies undermined and even “sabotaged” Labour’s campaign to keep the UK in the European Union, party sources have claimed.

    A series of documents passed to HuffPostUK allege that the leader’s inner circle, as well as Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, were agnostic at best and hostile at worst to the pro-EU campaign in the referendum.

    Within hours of the vote, Labour MPs were openly blaming Corbyn for the huge Brexit vote in the party’s heartlands, and a motion of no confidence in his leadership is set to be voted on next week.

    Now Remain campaigners say that pro-EU lines in Corbyn speeches were cut, his diary was scheduled to avoid Labour In events and any attempts to work with Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and Gordon Brown were overruled.

    Furious In campaigners lashed out, claiming that the party leaders’ diary was deliberately light on pro-EU events and that he refused to campaign actively until the very final stages of the Brexit debate.

    Key decisions on planning and messaging were delayed or changed, making it impossible for Labour’s official In campaign to function smoothly, it is alleged.
    ...
    Communications and Strategy Director Seumas Milne had written as recently as last July that “many progressive people in Britain, previously attracted to what seemed its cooperative internationalism, are moving towards voting no in the planned in-out referendum in the face of its brutal authoritarianism towards Greece.”

    In an interview with Croydon Radio in 2015, Andrew Fisher - now Corbyn’s policy director - said he was “agnostic” about the EU given some directives which could halt denationalisation of some public services.

    James Meadway, a part-time economic adviser to McDonnell, had written in the Counterfire website last year that “In our own referendum, on British membership of the EU, the left must vote No.”

    Senior party sources claim that the leader’s office refused to focus on or plan for the EU referendum until after the May local elections, and refused to allow Corbyn to welcome Cameron’s renegotiation deal in any way in February.


    Corbyn was encouraged by staff to avoid participating in LabourIN events, TV debates or any ‘StrongerIn’ events. Instead of working on a common position, an “alternative narrative” was developed in which Corbyn would criticise the EU’s weaknesses and call for reform.

    The phrase ‘That’s why I am campaigning to remain in the EU’ was deleted from numerous leader speeches and interventions in the long and short campaigns outside of the LabourIN campaign, despite calls from other parts of the Party to him to get involved.


    ----------------------------------------------------

    26 June 2016

    And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

    One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".

    A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.

    The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Guest Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:42 pm

    zvezda je zivot wrote:najbolji ligotijev ucenik, veliki poznavalac i ogolilac antropoloskog metafizickog ontoloskog i sl. srca tame. totalno glupa referenca al on mi prvi pao na pamet. (mada nisam ga cito deset godina sigurno, mozda je porasto.)

    e da i nije mi bila namera da se rugam NoCountryju nego mi ovaj pao na pamet pa sam izvuko 2 recenice iz konteksta i nalepio sliku.
    Sorry, забуна. Џирло ми факат сјебо штим.
    Erős Pista

    Posts : 82749
    Join date : 2012-06-10

    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Erős Pista Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:50 pm

    Gargantua wrote:^^ Ima pobunu najvećim delom što je tako vodio kampanju kako je vodio - odgovarao je na druga pitanja od onih koja su na tiketu. A takvo vođenje kampanje je odvelo (dodatne) milione u naručje UKIPa.

    Laburisti, konze i lib-demovi su zajednički držali Stronger IN kampanju, delili poslove u štabu itd. Samo to što je insistirao na premisi da je nešto "Kameronova platforma" a nije uložio trud da pojača rad zajedničke ekipe koju je prethodno odobrio kako bi rekao "ne, to nije Kameronova nego zajednička platforma" je dovoljno samo po sebi da pokaže da ga je ili bolelo uvo ili je bio zainteresovan da sprovodi strogo svoju agendu, bugger the consequences. Bio je taman srećan da može da se separatiše.

    Na ovom pitanju je Kameron bio na njegovoj strani, svidelo se to njemu ili ne, a činjenica da je uložio napor da predstavi da to nije tako je koštala IN kampanju.


    Pre referenduma:



    Saturday 9 April 2016 23.02 BST

    Senior Labour MPs are calling on Jeremy Corbyn to “step up his efforts” in the campaign to keep the UK in the European Union amid mounting concern in the party that he is failing to argue the case with sufficient passion.

    The group, led by Chris Leslie, the former shadow chancellor, serve a warning that if the Brexit camp wins the referendum on 23 June, Corbyn will be held partly responsible as people on the losing side will ask whether the party leaders “did enough to pull their weight”.

    Writing in the Observer, Leslie and the former culture secretary, Ben Bradshaw, along with the former frontbench spokeswoman on Europe, Emma Reynolds, and Labour MP Adrian Bailey, say Corbyn needs to campaign “relentlessly for our EU membership with passion and without equivocation” from now until the vote takes place.
    ...

    --------------------------------------------------

    June 2, 2016

    Jeremy Corbyn has taken aim at his own side in the EU referendum campaign by claiming that Treasury forecasts about the dire consequences of a vote to leave were “histrionic” hype and “myth-making”.
    ...
    On Thursday he stunned some of his own colleagues with what one described as “deliberate sabotage” of the campaign to stay in the union.

    Attacking both sides for scaremongering, Mr Corbyn said there had been too many “prophesies of doom” surrounding the imminent vote. “Just over a week ago, George Osborne claimed that the British economy would enter a year-long recession if we voted to leave,” he said. “This is the same George Osborne who predicted his austerity policies would close the deficit by 2015. That is now scheduled for 2021.”

    Mr Osborne, the chancellor, had also wrongly predicted a “march of the makers” only to oversee a stagnation of the manufacturing sector, he added.

    Mr Corbyn’s speech on Thursday morning was supposed to mark his return to the pro-EU fray after a holiday and only a handful of prominent interventions during the debate. A recent leaked memo from the pro-EU campaign suggested that just half of Labour voters realised their party officially backed the “In” side.

    Yet Mr Corbyn’s speech in support of the bloc was laced with criticism of its shortfalls and an attack on the proposed US-EU trade deal known as TTIP. “None of us are satisfied with the EU as it is,” he said.

    par crtica posle


    25/06/2016

    Jeremy Corbyn’s close allies undermined and even “sabotaged” Labour’s campaign to keep the UK in the European Union, party sources have claimed.

    A series of documents passed to HuffPostUK allege that the leader’s inner circle, as well as Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell, were agnostic at best and hostile at worst to the pro-EU campaign in the referendum.

    Within hours of the vote, Labour MPs were openly blaming Corbyn for the huge Brexit vote in the party’s heartlands, and a motion of no confidence in his leadership is set to be voted on next week.

    Now Remain campaigners say that pro-EU lines in Corbyn speeches were cut, his diary was scheduled to avoid Labour In events and any attempts to work with Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson and Gordon Brown were overruled.

    Furious In campaigners lashed out, claiming that the party leaders’ diary was deliberately light on pro-EU events and that he refused to campaign actively until the very final stages of the Brexit debate.

    Key decisions on planning and messaging were delayed or changed, making it impossible for Labour’s official In campaign to function smoothly, it is alleged.
    ...
    Communications and Strategy Director Seumas Milne had written as recently as last July that “many progressive people in Britain, previously attracted to what seemed its cooperative internationalism, are moving towards voting no in the planned in-out referendum in the face of its brutal authoritarianism towards Greece.”

    In an interview with Croydon Radio in 2015, Andrew Fisher - now Corbyn’s policy director - said he was “agnostic” about the EU given some directives which could halt denationalisation of some public services.

    James Meadway, a part-time economic adviser to McDonnell, had written in the Counterfire website last year that “In our own referendum, on British membership of the EU, the left must vote No.”

    Senior party sources claim that the leader’s office refused to focus on or plan for the EU referendum until after the May local elections, and refused to allow Corbyn to welcome Cameron’s renegotiation deal in any way in February.


    Corbyn was encouraged by staff to avoid participating in LabourIN events, TV debates or any ‘StrongerIn’ events. Instead of working on a common position, an “alternative narrative” was developed in which Corbyn would criticise the EU’s weaknesses and call for reform.

    The phrase ‘That’s why I am campaigning to remain in the EU’ was deleted from numerous leader speeches and interventions in the long and short campaigns outside of the LabourIN campaign, despite calls from other parts of the Party to him to get involved.


    ----------------------------------------------------

    26 June 2016

    And documents passed to the BBC suggest Jeremy Corbyn's office sought to delay and water down the Labour Remain campaign. Sources suggest that they are evidence of "deliberate sabotage".

    One email from the leader's office suggests that Mr Corbyn's director of strategy and communications, Seumas Milne, was behind Mr Corbyn's reluctance to take a prominent role in Labour's campaign to keep the UK in the EU. One email, discussing one of the leader's speeches, said it was because of the "hand of Seumas. If he can't kill it, he will water it down so much to hope nobody notices it".

    A series of messages dating back to December seen by the BBC shows correspondence between the party leader's office, the Labour Remain campaign and Labour HQ, discussing the European campaign. It shows how a sentence talking about immigration was removed on one occasion and how Mr Milne refused to sign off a letter signed by 200 MPs after it had already been approved.

    The documents show concern in Labour HQ and the Labour Remain campaign about Mr Corbyn's commitment to the campaign - one email says: "What is going on here?" Another email from Labour Remain sources to the leader's office complains "there is no EU content here - we agreed to have Europe content in it". Sources say they show the leader's office was reluctant to give full support to the EU campaign and how difficult it was to get Mr Corbyn to take a prominent role.

    Pa jbg to jeste bila Kaneronova platforma jer je to bio njegov referendum i njegova igra za obracun sa unutarpartijskom konkurencijom. Uz to je jasno stsjala na pozicijama odbrane EU kao neolib konsenzusa sa posebnim polozajem za UK. 

    Zaista ne nalazim nikakvu sabotazu u svim ovim primerima, mada je jasno da laburisti prosto imsju unutarstranacki rascep, ne samo po ovom pitanju.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Gargamel

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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Gargamel Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:16 pm

    ima logike u tome da je Seumas Milne bio anti-EU, i da bi on vodio sabotažu. nije neki dokaz, jeste smislena optužba.
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Filipenko Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:03 am

    William Murderface wrote:To nije moj utisak, tim pre sto sad ima pobunu u partiji.


    Meni je ovo fascinantno. Svinjojepče™ umislilo da ucenjuje Evropu referendumom i pretnjom da će izaći iz EU, konzervativci to podržali i debelo se naložili, dobili povlastice i sve što su tražili, ali stvari otišle svojim tokom™ i izglasaše odvajanje, sa finim perspektivama disolucije Britanije usled konfliktnih interesa država članica. I sada je nekako opet frka u lejboru umesto da je frka torijevcima, da ih gađaju paradajzom na ulici i da jedni drugima prave zvrčke i nameštaljke. Ne, oni lagano i opušteno furaju dalje, zabole ih, misle biće još ovakvih referenduma. A lejbor se cepa po šavovima. Jezivo.

    Uostalom, smatram da Londonski Siti treba razoriti.
    Bluberi

    Posts : 7930
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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Bluberi Wed Jun 29, 2016 3:46 am

    Gardijan je nasapunjao dasku.
    Filipenko

    Posts : 22555
    Join date : 2014-12-01

    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Filipenko Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:28 am

    Da, to je taj princip kao i kod nas. Ko je nama kriv što smo se zavadili, zaratili i poklali se međusobno? Pa komunisti, dabome. Ko je kriv što ne rade fabrike? Komunisti. Zbog čega nam nije bolje, a ekonomija je u kurcu? Zbog Broza. Zbog čega imamo dug od 26 milijardi? Zbog kredita iz 1975. koji su nam 90% oprošteni, ali nećemo sad o tome. Zašto smo se zadužili za 20 milijardi od 2000. naovamo? Zato što tako moderne ekonomije funkcionišu, a moralo se sređivati ono što su komunisti uništili. Pa dobro, jeste li sredili? Ne, sada smo na 2/3 BDP-a iz 1989.

    Ali dok ti doteraš do kraja i razobličiš, konzerve ti nametnu 30 različitih tema, na koje ti moraš imati spreman odgovor kako se izboriti, odmah i sada, dok oni mogu da ležerno udaraju u jednu te istu tikvu. Tunga-munga do smrti.
    Erős Pista

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    Join date : 2012-06-10

    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Erős Pista Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:32 am

    Filipenko wrote:
    William Murderface wrote:To nije moj utisak, tim pre sto sad ima pobunu u partiji.


    Meni je ovo fascinantno. Svinjojepče™ umislilo da ucenjuje Evropu referendumom i pretnjom da će izaći iz EU, konzervativci to podržali i debelo se naložili, dobili povlastice i sve što su tražili, ali stvari otišle svojim tokom™ i izglasaše odvajanje, sa finim perspektivama disolucije Britanije usled konfliktnih interesa država članica. I sada je nekako opet frka u lejboru umesto da je frka torijevcima, da ih gađaju paradajzom na ulici i da jedni drugima prave zvrčke i nameštaljke. Ne, oni lagano i opušteno furaju dalje, zabole ih, misle biće još ovakvih referenduma. A lejbor se cepa po šavovima. Jezivo.


    To je i meni totalni wtf.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Kinder Lad

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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Kinder Lad Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:54 am

    Konzervativce to tek ceka. Laburisti (politicari) jednostavno hoce nekoga za koga misle da moze da dobije izbore. Ne samo u smislu glasaca, nego i usmislu da ako izadju sa jasnom proevropskom strategijom (pristup jedinstvenom trzistu + ono sto sa tim ide (sloboda kretanja) dobiju i masivnu finansijsku podrsku velikog biznisa.


    _____
    alt-lib
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by Guest Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:19 am

    Konzama je EU pitanje interne deobe decenijama, oni su na to navikli i neće se oko toga mnogo deliti (Karsvelov raniji prelazak u UKIP je redak izuzetak).

    Brexit je šok za Laburiste, Korbin svakako nije bio čovek za taj posao i zato podele kuljaju na površinu, jer nema partijske discipline oko te linije podele. Izvesno je da ni prošlogodišnji poraz na izborima nije prevaziđen niti je partijski vrh konsolidovan u PLP, odnosno nije stvoren novi post-blerovski konsenzus.
    паће

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    Brexit - Page 28 Empty Re: Brexit

    Post by паће Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:19 am

    Од колеге са оног форума, овог пута један Киви који помно прати шта се догађа са ове стране кугле:

    Киви wrote:>>They're just figureheads. It's the banksters. Just follow the money.

    Today I believe the EU was to formally unveil what it signaled last month: individual EU states apparently are to transfer their sovereign security, criminal law, taxation, foreign policy and central banking powers to Brussels, to form one large pan-European superstate.

    Common sense/awareness of the people would indicate delay of such an announcement, so lets see. Meanwhile, consider yesterday's gems from EU grandees:

    Juncker, President of EU Commission: "There can be no democratic choice against European Treaties"

    Schulz, President of EU Parliament: “The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate"

    /edit/ It appears that a version of the announcement went ahead. Full text here (scroll down for non-Polish speakers!) http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpanstwo-zobacz-oryginalny-dokument


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    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:24 am

    Kinder Lad wrote:Konzervativce to tek ceka. Laburisti (politicari) jednostavno hoce nekoga za koga misle da moze da dobije izbore. Ne samo u smislu glasaca, nego i usmislu da ako izadju sa jasnom proevropskom strategijom (pristup jedinstvenom trzistu + ono sto sa tim ide (sloboda kretanja) dobiju i masivnu finansijsku podrsku velikog biznisa.


    Pa da jebe oca*, konzervativci su doveli državu do ruba razdvajanja, šta je još potrebno da lejbor dobije izbore? Trebaju samo da natrljaju na nos koliku su štetu ovi napravili i ne bi smeli da imaju problema da dobiju izbore, sa Džeremijem Korbinom ili ikonom Mao Ce Tunga na čelu. Meni deluje da će konzervativci ovo jednostavno izjahati sa par internih personalnih promena (za kojima možda i ne bi bilo potrebe da se Kameron nije izleteo sa ostavkom, već da je odlučio da nastavi da jaše na talasu odvajanja) i da će se sve nastaviti po starom.



    * - crnogorska narodna gej-incest umotvorina
    Kinder Lad

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    Post by Kinder Lad Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:16 am

    Filipenko wrote:
    Kinder Lad wrote:Konzervativce to tek ceka. Laburisti (politicari) jednostavno hoce nekoga za koga misle da moze da dobije izbore. Ne samo u smislu glasaca, nego i usmislu da ako izadju sa jasnom proevropskom strategijom (pristup jedinstvenom trzistu + ono sto sa tim ide (sloboda kretanja) dobiju i masivnu finansijsku podrsku velikog biznisa.


    Pa da jebe oca*, konzervativci su doveli državu do ruba razdvajanja, šta je još potrebno da lejbor dobije izbore? Trebaju samo da natrljaju na nos koliku su štetu ovi napravili i ne bi smeli da imaju problema da dobiju izbore, sa Džeremijem Korbinom ili ikonom Mao Ce Tunga na čelu. Meni deluje da će konzervativci ovo jednostavno izjahati sa par internih personalnih promena (za kojima možda i ne bi bilo potrebe da se Kameron nije izleteo sa ostavkom, već da je odlučio da nastavi da jaše na talasu odvajanja) i da će se sve nastaviti po starom.

    Fora je u tome da, koliko god Cameron bio za Remain, konzerve su ovaj referendum fakticki dobili. Vecina njihovih je bila za Brexit, a vecina Laburista za Remain. Torijevci sjebavaju zemlju, sto rece vodja (vodjica?) skotskih laburista "at every turn", ali...za njihove glasace je to normalno jer oni to uopste ne vide tako.
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:57 am

    паће wrote:scroll down for non-Polish speakers!) http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpanstwo-zobacz-oryginalny-dokument

    Poljaci su u full retard modu. Ako se jos neko bude odvajao kladim se da ce to biti oni, bez obzira na to sta trenutno pokazuju ankete.


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    My Moon Che Gavara.
    zvezda je zivot

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    Post by zvezda je zivot Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:59 am

    Brexit - Page 28 CmEYbCPUkAEtkiQ


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    паће

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    Post by паће Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:05 pm

    Radagast wrote:
    паће wrote:scroll down for non-Polish speakers!) http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europejskie-superpanstwo-zobacz-oryginalny-dokument

    Poljaci su u full retard modu. Ako se jos neko bude odvajao kladim se da ce to biti oni, bez obzira na to sta trenutno pokazuju ankete.

    То је њихов проблем, и не поништава то што су рекли Јункер и Шулц.


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       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:31 pm

    паће wrote:
    Radagast wrote:

    Poljaci su u full retard modu. Ako se jos neko bude odvajao kladim se da ce to biti oni, bez obzira na to sta trenutno pokazuju ankete.

    То је њихов проблем, и не поништава то што су рекли Јункер и Шулц.

    Upravo obratno, jer ljudima u full retard modu nije problem da poveruju u najblesavije glasine, pa ni da ih sami izmisle. Uzmimo recimo Schulzovu izjavu: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate". Jedini izvor da je on zaista to izjavio je jedan tvit nekakvog italijanskog trejdera, koji onda retardi diljem Interneta citiraju. Isto vazi i za Junkerovu izjavu, kako uopste da znamo da li je stvarna? Sta je izvor?


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    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    паће

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    Post by паће Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:53 pm

    И опет обратно - да би гласина била успешна, мора да личи на стварну, мора да се уклапа у остало, иначе неће далеко.

    Те две изјаве, измишљене или не, јако добро одсликавају данашње функционисање ЕУ. Не само да се демократија заобилази (устав уније, који је онако попушио гдегод се гласало за њега, бива замењен Лисабонским споразумом између бирократа и бирократа; референдум у Грчкој бива угажен) него се број ствари о којима се демократски одлучује увелико смањује.

    И те изјаве и пратећи/претећи текст документа ми личе на пробне балоне, који треба да служе као најава поскупљења свега за 50%, после чега стварних 27% неће изгледати страшно.


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       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    zvezda je zivot

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    Post by zvezda je zivot Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:55 pm

    Ed Conway@EdConwaySky
    Yet more misery for Jeremy Corbyn: I learn Thomas Piketty, perhaps the world’s top left-wing thinker today, has quit as a Labour adviser

    Ed Conway@EdConwaySky  3h3 hours ago  
    Piketty actually resigned from Corbyn’s Economic Advisory Council a couple of weeks ago as he couldn’t find time for it

    Ed Conway@EdConwaySky  3h3 hours ago  
    Piketty told me: “I am deeply concerned with the Brexit vote, and with the very weak campaign of Labour”.

    Sky News Newsdesk Verified account @SkyNewsBreak 27m27 minutes ago
    Pat Glass has resigned as #Labour shadow education secretary after being appointed to the role on Monday


    Last edited by zvezda je zivot on Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:58 pm; edited 1 time in total


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