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    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:34 pm

    Janko Suvar

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    Post by Janko Suvar Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:35 pm

    ocu samo da kazem da je smesno sto si stavio ozbiljan naziv topika, to je sve , hvala.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:48 pm

    Ruska ambasada u BiH: Približavanje BIH i NATO neprijateljski korak
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    Post by Guest Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:53 pm

    e crkli dabogda, ceo nato
    Sotir

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    Post by Sotir Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:02 am

    Цео НАТО је толико скресао војску у ових 30 година не само по броју, већ и по расположивости, да је ово једна смејурија у односу на хладноратовске арсенале. Сад се поносе са 28к војника из 27 земаља. Толико је раније један Португал имао спремно за акцију. Маневри Слобода 71 су имали дупло више војске.
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:38 am



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    radikalni patrijarhalni feminista

    smrk kod dijane hrk
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    Post by WildRanger Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:59 pm

    Kako to da Irska nikad nije postala član NATO pakta?
    ćaća

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    Post by ćaća Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:20 pm

    Zbog Severne Irske, a kasnije zato što nisu hteli da plaćaju. Svo vreme goste američke trupe.
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:09 pm

    FT:

    Nato allies urge rethink on alliance after Biden’s ‘unilateral’ Afghanistan exit

    European leaders criticise US as troop withdrawal ‘debacle’ brings longest-running mission to end



    European allies had hoped Joe Biden’s election to the US presidency would bolster Nato’s relevance after Donald Trump’s acrimonious tenure. Washington’s messy withdrawal from Afghanistan is prompting a rethink.

    After the fall of Kabul, EU defence and security officials have been critical of the US decision to send home its 2,500 troops, saying it has weakened Nato and raised questions about Europe’s security dependence on Washington. Their reaction marked a bitter end to the alliance’s longest-running mission, which involved 10,000 personnel from 36 countries.

    “This kind of troop withdrawal caused chaos. Chaos causes additional suffering,” Artis Pabriks, Latvia’s defence minister, told local radio on Tuesday. Such long-term missions were unlikely in the future, he added: “This era is over. Unfortunately, the west, and Europe in particular, are showing they are weaker globally.”

    He echoed Ben Wallace, UK defence secretary, who appeared on the verge of tears on Monday as he predicted “some would not get back” from the war-torn country. “It’s sad. Twenty years of sacrifice is what it is,” he said.

    Armin Laschet, Germany’s conservative candidate to succeed chancellor Angela Merkel, on Tuesday called the troop withdrawal “the greatest debacle that Nato has experienced since its foundation”.

    “It looks like Nato has been completely overtaken by American unilateral decisions,” said Lord Peter Ricketts, the UK’s former national security adviser. “First of all, Trump’s decision to start talking to the Taliban about leaving and then the Biden decision to set a timetable.”

    “The Afghanistan operation was always going to end some time, it was never going to go on forever, but the manner in which it’s been done has been humiliating and damaging to Nato.”

    Nato’s intervention in Afghanistan, prompted by the al-Qaeda-led September 11 2001 attacks on the US, was the first and only time the alliance invoked its Article 5 collective defence principle, under which an attack on one ally is considered an attack on all.

    Two decades on, there have been cracks in the unity over how to end “America’s longest war”. As the Taliban encircled Kabul on Friday, Wallace revealed that he had tried this year to form a coalition of “like-minded” Nato countries that would keep some troops in Afghanistan.

    Lord George Robertson, who was Nato secretary-general on the day of the 9/11 attack in New York, and who triggered Article 5 a few hours later, suggested the disunity was damaging. “It weakens Nato because the principle of ‘in together, out together’ seems to have been abandoned both by Donald Trump and by Joe Biden,” he told the Financial Times.

    Biden administration officials had consulted with allies as they sought to unstitch Trump’s isolationist approach. On Afghanistan, however, some alliance members complained that Washington presented them with a fait accompli.

    “This was discussed at length, and the US listened, but Biden had made a political decision,” said one person familiar with the withdrawal planning.

    Once the decision was formalised, the UK, Turkey and Italy were keen to find a way to keep forces in place to help stabilise Afghanistan. But this was considered impossible without the vast military infrastructure provided by the US, notably air support from the US-run Bagram air base north of Kabul.

    Nato secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg insisted there had been “no willingness” from other European allies or from Canada to fill in for the US once it announced its withdrawal plan.

    “We must realise that when it comes to the Nato mission to Afghanistan, it was not possible to have an independent role for Germany or the European forces,” Merkel said on Monday. “We always said that we are basically dependent on the decisions of the US government.”

    One former military commander who served in Afghanistan said there were “big implications” for perceptions of Nato’s deterrence capabilities.

    “It’s all very well Nato talking up its ability to fight off Russia, but it couldn’t even find 3,000 to 5,000 troops to ensure Afghanistan was stable enough to force a stalemate, and eventually a ceasefire on the Taliban, without American underpinning,” the person said.

    In its 2030 strategy, Nato outlined a promise for deeper political co-ordination and renewed commitment from its members to the 2 per cent defence spending target. But the crisis in Afghanistan has revived unease over a lack of strategic focus.

    “Afghanistan today is the umpteenth expression of Nato’s failed, supine policy,” Ione Belarra, Podemos leader and Spain’s social policy minister, wrote on Twitter.

    “It is time to make a shift towards greater sovereignty and the defence of our own interests,”, Lilith Verstrynge, another Podemos official, said, echoing France’s president Emmanuel Macron.

    Asked on Monday if Nato should move away from “nation-building”, Merkel agreed: “The goals [of such deployments] should be made much narrower.”

    The failure of the alliance’s training programme was also one “big question”, Stoltenberg noted. “Why were the forces we trained and equipped and supported over so many years . . . not able to stand up against Taliban in a stronger and better way than they did?”

    Lord Mark Sedwill, who served as a former ambassador and senior Nato representative to Afghanistan, suggested this week the alliance should focus its efforts on rebuilding the practical capabilities to intervene when necessary, “avoiding the over-reach and impatience which proved fatal to the Afghan campaign”.

    The Afghanistan drawdown might act as a cautionary tale for Nato nations failing to recognise that US security guarantees were time-limited, Robertson said. “If this is a wake-up call to the Europeans — that in the future they’ll have to safeguard their own security much more than before because . . . the American global policeman is not necessarily going to be around all the time — then it will have served a purpose.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/3ea7e87e-ab3a-4e14-8396-8061420942b0
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:26 pm

    pa zar nije to doslovce rekao de gol kenediju kada je izvukao francusku iz NATO komandnih struktura


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    ćaća

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    Post by ćaća Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:35 pm

    Jest. Pametan čovek bio De Gol.
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:23 pm

    Dobro, bilo je tu i druge važne pozadine, npr anglo-američka nuklearna saradnja od kraja 50ih koja je isključivala Francusku.
    kapetanm

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    Post by kapetanm Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:49 pm

    Pitam se da li bi sad postojao odziv clanica NATO da zvekne Kosovo? Pardon, frojdovska omaska mislio sam Srbiju
    ćaća

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    Post by ćaća Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:09 am

    Naravno, mi smo lipov kurac low cost opcija, ne možemo nikog da ugrozimo, nismo fanatici, nemamo neku ideologiju, nemamo leđa.
    ćaća

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    Post by ćaća Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:10 am

    Danas ako za ikakvu NATO intervenciju postoji saglanost da je bila poželjna i uspešna, to je Kosovo.
    ćaća

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    Post by ćaća Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:15 am

    Del Cap wrote:Dobro, bilo je tu i druge važne pozadine, npr anglo-američka nuklearna saradnja od kraja 50ih koja je isključivala Francusku.

    Naravno, ali je u osnovi ispravna ideja da USA ima svoje interese koji će uvek biti prioritet i zbog kojih će Evropljani occasionally biti u situaciji da ga puše.

    + je bio 100% u pravu za UK i EEC.
    kondo

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    Post by kondo Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:17 am

    Častili smo ih


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    Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:27 am

    ćaća wrote:
    Del Cap wrote:Dobro, bilo je tu i druge važne pozadine, npr anglo-američka nuklearna saradnja od kraja 50ih koja je isključivala Francusku.

    Naravno, ali je u osnovi ispravna ideja da USA ima svoje interese koji će uvek biti prioritet i zbog kojih će Evropljani occasionally biti u situaciji da ga puše.

    + je bio 100% u pravu za UK i EEC.

    da, njegov argument je bio bas to. parafraziram ali rekao mu je da ce ameri bez frke povuci liniju kod kanala dok ih budu gazili sovjetski tenkovi.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    ćaća

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    Post by ćaća Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:31 am

    Ruku na srce, koliko je Evropljanima bilo stalo do borbe protiv međunarodnog kumunizma van sopstvenog dvorišta se lepo videlo u Koreji.
    kapetanm

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    Post by kapetanm Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:34 am

    ćaća wrote:Danas ako za ikakvu NATO intervenciju postoji saglanost da je bila poželjna i uspešna, to je Kosovo.

    Da za onaj trenutak ali hipoteticki u ovom da ih Bajden pozove
    ćaća

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    Post by ćaća Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:35 am

    Pa nema sad za sta da se ratuje. Ali naravno da bi.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:50 am

    Taman da sad uletimo na Kosovo i da im pruzimo jeftin katalizator jedinstva dok se pitaju sta bi to moglo da bude. Realno, licilo bi na nas.
    паће

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    Post by паће Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:11 am

    Не бих искључио могућност да су талибани баш на томе инсистирали, да ће омогућити Америма да извуку читаво дупе само под условом да не помажу ником другом, ни својим плаћеним Авганцима, ни савезницима. Јел била прекјуче она сцена кад Амери држе Брите на нишану и терају их да оставе своје помагаче, а и ово са спаљивањем пасоша...

    Ако Авганци могу да се дувају како су сами сјебали светски комунизам, шта ли ће тек кроз 20 година причати о августу 2021...


    _____
       I drove a škodilak before it was cool.
       Морони на власти чешће мењају правила него гаће.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sun May 15, 2022 6:59 pm

    Sweden will jettison 200 years of military non-alignment and apply to join Nato alongside its neighbour Finland, a move that would change the geopolitics of Europe and underscore the unintended consequences of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

    In a momentous day for the Nordic nations, Finland said on Sunday that it would formally apply for Nato membership in the coming days, while the ruling Social Democrats in Sweden broke with tradition and said they would follow suit. “Europe, Sweden and the Swedish public are living a new and dangerous reality. The European security order that Sweden builds its security on is under attack,” said Magdalena Andersson, Sweden’s prime minister and Social Democrat leader. “We Social Democrats think that the best thing for Sweden’s security is that we join Nato.”

    https://www.ft.com/content/f938ee66-3130-47e9-a911-8f7177e58521


    Putin, strateški genije
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Mon May 16, 2022 5:47 pm

    boomer crook wrote:
    ćaća wrote:

    Naravno, ali je u osnovi ispravna ideja da USA ima svoje interese koji će uvek biti prioritet i zbog kojih će Evropljani occasionally biti u situaciji da ga puše.

    + je bio 100% u pravu za UK i EEC.

    da, njegov argument je bio bas to. parafraziram ali rekao mu je da ce ameri bez frke povuci liniju kod kanala dok ih budu gazili sovjetski tenkovi.
    Linija se pomerila malo u desno.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”

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