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    Gejmerstina

    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 10:16 am

    pa sta ti je u arturijanskom ciklusu ser palamides saracen? na primer? ukoliko imas belog britanskog lorda koga usred afrike odgaje majmuni i on postane gospodar dzunge isto tako imas i elemnte evropske srednjevekovne fikcije koji su se napajali svetom oko sebe koji je vek ukljucivao afriku. meni zapravo ne smeta to sto nema crnaca (on moze da kaze da ih u njegovom svetu jednostavno i nema) niti sam ta vrsta cenzora vec mi smeta parohijalni dozivljaj evropske srednjevekovne kulture.

    obavezno citanje: brian wood 'northlanders'/chabon gentlemen of the road/izaberi arturijanski ciklus po zelji.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
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    Post by Guest Fri May 15, 2015 10:37 am

    Saraceni su Arapi. Arapi nisu non-white. A drugo, postoji istorijsko opravdanje za prisustvo Arapa u arturijanskim legendama. Takodje, Tarzan je smesten u kolonijalnom periodu, kada je bilo dosta anglosaksonaca po Africi, i koji su nazalost bili obavezna pojava.

    Sa druge strane, prisustvo "non-whites" u srednjevekovnoj Poljskoj, Baltiku, Skandinaviji je prakticno nepostojece. Prikazivanje tih sredina kao multikulturalne bi bilo veliko bezveznjastvo. Ovo se narocito odnosi na Wtcher koji po grim-dark prikazu srednjeg veka na liniji sa GoTom(ako nije i ostriji) .
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 11:04 am

    tebi naprimer izmice izraz crni arapin? i moram ti reci da artur nije istorijski lik. stavise ukljucenje crnog coveka je posledica krstaskog susreta sa orijentom koja je onda nasla svoje mesto u folkloru, umetnosti i popularnoj imaginaciji. i naravno da je tarzan posledica kolonijalne ekspanzije ali fantazije o njoj a ne kako je to zaista bilo (ako nisi citao kasnije tarzan otkriva podzemne svetove, napredne rase, stice besmrtnost). witcher je pastis poznog wfrp, par prica solomon kanea i lotr stereotipa. svako ko ga brani tvrdeci da je 'realan' ima problem sa istorijom a ne s mnom. that said pokojni george mcdonald frazer je rekao da je najbolja avanturisticka novela istorija. bez problema mozes da smestis banderasa u skandinaviju, frimena u englesku princa dzona i crne jevreje koji vuku slona u poljsku na putu ka hazariji u devetom veku. witcher je nista do jedna adolescentski mracna fantazija koja voli da laze o sebi kao akuratnoj folklorno i pseudoistorijski dok poljski lovac na vestice kara antickog duha prirode tj. drijadu. i mean djizus.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri May 15, 2015 11:16 am

    Ne ulazeći u meritum rasprave, moram da primetim da ovaj Poljak govori jezikom ušminkanog neo-fašizma 1/1. Pa valjda i mi Evropjani imamo prava na svoje nasleđe! (tj. da sanjamo o rasno čistoj Evropi)


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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    Post by Guest Fri May 15, 2015 11:19 am

    ostap bender wrote:witcher je nista do jedna adolescentski mracna fantazija koja voli da laze o sebi kao akuratnoj folklorno i pseudoistorijski dok poljski lovac na vestice kara antickog duha prirode tj. drijadu. i mean djizus.

    Ti si snob.  Gejmerstina - Page 4 2304934895
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    Post by Guest Fri May 15, 2015 11:20 am

    William Murderface wrote:Ne ulazeći u meritum rasprave, moram da primetim da ovaj Poljak govori jezikom ušminkanog neo-fašizma 1/1. Pa valjda i mi Evropjani imamo prava na svoje nasleđe! (tj. da sanjamo o rasno čistoj Evropi)

    Ne zajebavaj Simo, ovo si mu ucitao 1/1.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 11:28 am

    jesam snob a wfrp je propao kada je sebe poceo preozbiljno da shvata. najbolji je bio kada si isao u zamak vitgenstajn da ubijes gregora samsu a jure te orci koji nose steg sa likom megi tacer. ovo o tome da je igra sa elafima ili drijadama manje ili vise akuratna zato sto u njojzi ima crnaca je ludlo.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
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    Post by Guest Fri May 15, 2015 11:35 am

    Niko nije ni govorio o istorijskoj tacnosti Witchera. Rasprava koju sam okacio se sa druge strane odnosi na istorijsko prisustvo ne-belaca u srednjoj/severnoj Evropi. A povod je kritika na racun Witchera zato sto nije multi kulti.
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    Post by Erős Pista Fri May 15, 2015 11:44 am

    Verterdegete wrote:
    William Murderface wrote:Ne ulazeći u meritum rasprave, moram da primetim da ovaj Poljak govori jezikom ušminkanog neo-fašizma 1/1. Pa valjda i mi Evropjani imamo prava na svoje nasleđe! (tj. da sanjamo o rasno čistoj Evropi)

    Ne zajebavaj Simo, ovo si mu ucitao 1/1.

    Ni najmanje, veruj mi, ovo je jezik evropskog neo-fašizma koji radi na svojoj mejnstrimizaciji. Pa svako ima pravo na svoje naseđe, i mi valjda imamo pravo na svoje nasleđe, itd. Tako sad govore svi od Nika Grifina pa do male Marine.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 11:49 am

    pa witcher moze da bude sta hoce zato sto je fantazijski svet ali kada ti neko kaze da nije bilo kulurnog i drugog diverziteta u evropi u srednjem veku prica napamet. na kraju krajeva u tom svetu vicera nema ni jevreja pa necemo valjda reci da ih nije bilo u poljskoj u srednjem veku. naravno, za vilijama, vicer nije nekonfliktna igra koja homogenizuje evropsko iskustvo vec njegovu fragmentiranost prevodi u svoj setting kroz uvodjenje neljudskih rasa koje su izlozene pogromima i diskriminaciji. problem je tvrditi da je prisustvo crnaca u evropskoj istoriji i imaginarijumu nesto sto te sprecava da u istoj uzivas ili participiras. kao sto sam demonstrirao jedan vitez okruglog stola je bio brat iz harlema i imao je vise blinga od kanjea. patite bitches.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Fri May 15, 2015 2:18 pm

    William Murderface wrote:
    Verterdegete wrote:

    Ne zajebavaj Simo, ovo si mu ucitao 1/1.

    Ni najmanje, veruj mi, ovo je jezik evropskog neo-fašizma koji radi na svojoj mejnstrimizaciji. Pa svako ima pravo na svoje naseđe, i mi valjda imamo pravo na svoje nasleđe, itd. Tako sad govore svi od Nika Grifina pa do male Marine.

    U pravu ste obojica. To jeste jezik neo-fasizma, ali je isto tako zahtev da se uture crnci u video igru zbog politicke korektnosti smehotresan.


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Fri May 15, 2015 2:20 pm

    ostap bender wrote: problem je tvrditi da je prisustvo ili odsustvo crnaca u evropskoj istoriji i imaginarijumu nesto sto te sprecava da u istoj uzivas ili participiras.  

    +1


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

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    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Fri May 15, 2015 2:21 pm

    Radagast wrote:
    William Murderface wrote:

    Ni najmanje, veruj mi, ovo je jezik evropskog neo-fašizma koji radi na svojoj mejnstrimizaciji. Pa svako ima pravo na svoje naseđe, i mi valjda imamo pravo na svoje nasleđe, itd. Tako sad govore svi od Nika Grifina pa do male Marine.

    U pravu ste obojica. To jeste jezik neo-fasizma, ali je isto tako zahtev da se uture crnci u video igru zbog politicke korektnosti smehotresan.

    U načelu se slažem, pojedinosti ne znam, zato sam se i ogradio od merituma.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 3:58 pm

    Radagast wrote:
    ostap bender wrote: problem je tvrditi da je prisustvo ili odsustvo crnaca u evropskoj istoriji i imaginarijumu nesto sto te sprecava da u istoj uzivas ili participiras.  

    +1

    pa ali je se ubih pricajuci da je argument 'nije bilo crnaca' zapravo smesan zato sto se na prvom mestu radi o fantazijskom svetu u kojem bica iz anticke mitologije frolikuju sa polusanima i zato sto, na drugom mestu, evropska istorija jeste kulturno raznovrsnija nego sto vecina srednjevekovnih slabih pastisa veruju.

    to ne znaci da treba metnuti crne ljude just because ili da to bude argument kritike igre.
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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Fri May 15, 2015 4:09 pm

    ostap bender wrote:
    Radagast wrote:

    +1

    pa ali je se ubih pricajuci da je argument 'nije bilo crnaca' zapravo smesan zato sto se na prvom mestu radi o fantazijskom svetu u kojem bica iz anticke mitologije frolikuju sa polusanima i zato sto, na drugom mestu, evropska istorija jeste kulturno raznovrsnija nego sto vecina srednjevekovnih slabih pastisa veruju.

    to ne znaci da treba metnuti crne ljude just because ili da to bude argument kritike igre.

    Jeste evropska istorija kulturno raznovrsna, ali sto se crnaca tice to vazi vise za mediteranske zemlje i kolonijalne sile. Na prostoru gde se odvija radnja Witchera prisustvo ljudi crne boje koze svakako nije bilo uobicajeno. Ali kao sto kazes, to je nebitno, buduci da se radi o fantazijskom svetu.

    edit: e da, kakav je novi Mad Max?


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

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    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 4:18 pm

    Gejmerstina - Page 4 Afro_Abkhazian_photo_by_George_Kennan_1870_%28A%29


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 4:22 pm

    mislim nije uobicajno (ali sta uobicajno uopste znaci u avanturistickim igricama) ali u istoriji su najzanimljivije neobicne stvari a njih ima u izobilju kada jednom po zagrebes.

    @madmax: super, mada kapiram da ce neki od ovih verterovih gejmera da kuka sto je charliz makar isto toliko mamojeb ko mad max. zapravo ovo je treci deo kakav je trebao biti. mad max u svojoj baroknoj fazi. plus brendan mccarthy je genije.

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    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Fri May 15, 2015 4:31 pm

    Evo jos jedan deo navedenog rivjua, sigurno ce se dopasti Verteru.


    The Witcher 3's expanded cast of characters doesn't preclude more screen time for just about everyone, and CD Projekt has done work to make for more interesting, influential women that feel just a bit more fleshed out than they've been previously. This includes a number of powerful women with complicated motivations and goals of their own.

    That said, the world CD Projekt has created is oppressively misogynist. In some ways, the game deals directly with this — characters acknowledge again and again that it's hard to be a woman there, that it's a place of violence and terror and that women must work harder to be recognized and respected.

    Then it kills them, over and over. There are several monster types devoted to murdered and wronged women whom Geralt is frequently asked to destroy, and other villainous characters are shown torturing or even butchering women to show just how evil they are. One sequence seemed specifically designed to see how long I could listen to a major female character have her fingernails pulled out before I ended the conversation to attack the individual in question. A later scene shows a villain literally surrounded by the bodies of murdered prostitutes.

    In another, a character who admitted to beating his wife so badly she miscarried is given an opportunity to explain why she had it coming, complete with a sympathetic conversation response option to go with it. The performances all around in this scene are excellent, the presentation among the best, most reined in anywhere in the game, but the message I saw it conveying was abhorrent.

    I get that the setting of The Witcher 3 is meant to be a dark, dirty fantasy. But in a world that so explicitly goes out of its way to build a believable, distinctive take on the genre, the inclusion of so much violence explicitly directed against women feels like a clear, disconcerting choice. It's not just present, it's frequently a focus.

    When they're not being murdered, women in The Witcher 3 are comically sexualized. Nudity is everywhere — think Game of Thrones on HBO — and even when they're dressed, female leads don't have it much better. One character, the subject of an extended series of side quests and whom plays a fairly important role in advancing the story wears a dress with a neckline so wide I was pretty sure I was seeing an areola every time she turned to the side (no, seriously).

    Other moments are truly worthy of eye-rolling — as when one male character criticizes a woman for going into battle with her shirt hanging open, which is really the snake eating its own tail of video game sexism in a game where a significant portion of its speaking female characters are similarly and impractically exposed. Even Ciri, a daughter figure for Geralt and someone revealed to be incredibly powerful in her own right, walks around with her shirt unbuttoned in the middle, with a pretty clear view of a bra underneath — even when her attire changes to feature a fur-lined collar in colder climates.


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

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    Post by Guest Fri May 15, 2015 5:12 pm

    Ako cemo iskreno, ni meni se ne svidja seksploatacija iz Witchera. Neukusna je, ili sto bi Ostap rekao - adolescentska. Nit je prava erotika pa da bude prijatno, nit je erotski kemp kao u Age of Conanu ili Bayoneti, pa da bude simpaticno. Narocito bezveze je bio prvi deo sa onim kres skupljanjem kartica.


     Ja nisam neki veliki fan Witchera. Za mene je to jedan od onih igara koje u susi dobrih naslova ispikam cisto reda radi. Ovde je meni bitan princip, odnosno protiv toga sam da se autoru ogranicava sloboda ili namecu teme koje mora da obradi, a sve radi ostvarenja nekih drustveno politickih ciljeva.
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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 5:21 pm

    pa to mogu da razumem. samo podjednako slobodu nekog buduceg autora ogranicava i argumentacija koja dolazi s druge strane. sto ja ne bih u igricu ubacio crnog osmanliju koji je u sultanovom vojnom pohodu? crnog etioskog gonica slonova u sluzbi trgovaca radanita? to sto taj mucenik zamislja evropsku istoriju kao na hitlerovom akvarelu je njegov problem a ne problem istorije.

    a ovo je fantazijska igrica pa neka ga neka radi sta mu je cef.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
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    Post by Erős Pista Fri May 15, 2015 6:10 pm

    ostap bender wrote:mislim nije uobicajno (ali sta uobicajno uopste znaci u avanturistickim igricama) ali u istoriji su najzanimljivije neobicne stvari a njih ima u izobilju kada jednom po zagrebes.

    @madmax: super, mada kapiram da ce neki od ovih verterovih gejmera da kuka sto je charliz makar isto toliko mamojeb ko mad max. zapravo ovo je treci deo kakav je trebao biti. mad max u svojoj baroknoj fazi. plus brendan mccarthy je genije.

    Gejmerstina - Page 4 Freakwave_10


    Furious about Furiosa: Misogynists are losing it over Charlize Theron’s starring role in Mad Max: Fury Road


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Fri May 15, 2015 6:16 pm

    ostap bender wrote:samo podjednako slobodu nekog buduceg autora ogranicava i argumentacija koja dolazi s druge strane.

    Ne bih rekao. Prisustvo crnaca u medieval/medieval-fantasy nije toliko neuobicajeno. Sto je super, ali nije razlog za deljenje packi onima koji to ne ispostuju.


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    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Fri May 15, 2015 6:21 pm

    onaj artur je tako los...


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Fri May 15, 2015 6:25 pm

    William Murderface wrote:
    Furious about Furiosa: Misogynists are losing it over Charlize Theron’s starring role in Mad Max: Fury Road


    I don’t want my wife to step foot out of the house unless her every dime and minute spent can be accounted for and executed in conjuncture with my approval. My daughter will exude obedience and timidity for whoever her future husband is and it’s imperative that all Christian Men demand nothing less within their own homes. Playtime for feminazis and the left is over. This is our world and our heritage to protect. Let the cultural war begin!

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    Wow! Its like you have a mini Saudi Arabia right in your home!

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    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    Daï Djakman Faré

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    Post by Daï Djakman Faré Fri May 15, 2015 6:33 pm

    ostap bender wrote:Gejmerstina - Page 4 Afro_Abkhazian_photo_by_George_Kennan_1870_%28A%29

    tatari, cerkezi, ceceni i generalno narodi iz transkavkaskog pojasa su bili poznati po tome sto su znali da drpe strance u roblje. sloveni hriscani su im bili omiljeni, ali uzimali su indiscriminately. ali ne moramo da idemo tako daleko - imamo mi npr i naseg ulcinjskog oridjinala riza surlu.


    _____
    i would like to talk here about The Last of Us on HBO... and yeah, yeah i know.. the world is burning but lets just all sit and talk about television. again - what else are we doing with ourselves ? we are not creating any militias. but my god we still have the content. appraising content is the american modus vivendi.. that's why we are here for. to absorb the content and then render some sort of a judgment on content. because there is a buried hope that if enough people have the right opinion about the content - the content will get better which will then flow to our structures and make the world a better place

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