Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

    a future to believe in

    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:17 pm

    Djamolidine Abdoujaparov wrote:to je jedini način da se značajnije proširi elektorat demokratske stranke, da širi krug potencijalnih glasača izađe na izbore jer će imati razlog za to bolje usklađen sa sopstvenim interesima od prostog plašenja Trampom.
    muka je u tome što visok procenat Amera ne zna šta im je u interesu, nemaju dovoljno razvijenu klasnu svest. valjda je zato Bajden još uvek najpopularniji među demokratama.

    NPR/PBS/Marist poll:
    • 41% favor a Medicare for all plan that replaces private insurance
    • 70% support “Medicare for all that want it,” which keeps private insurers
    Anonymous
    Guest

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:24 pm

    "Da li biste želeli full MfA bez dodatnih troškova i to tako da nas Amerikance troškovi zdravstva koštaju i do 40% manje nego sada?"

    95% za

    Zavisi šta pitaš i u kojim društvenim okolnostima pitaš. E al mora da se menja sve do koske.


    a future to believe in - Page 38 350px-Health_care_cost_rise.svg
    avatar

    Posts : 10317
    Join date : 2012-02-10

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Nino Quincampoix Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:34 pm

    Svuda postoji private insurance. U UK BUPA pokriva oko 10% pacijenata. Ali NHS pokriva 100%.
    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:39 pm

    Gargantua wrote:"Da li biste želeli full MfA bez dodatnih troškova i to tako da nas Amerikance troškovi zdravstva koštaju i do 40% manje nego sada?"
    smanjeni troškovi, bolja zdravstvena usluga, i niži porezi! a future to believe in - Page 38 3826186726

    a future to believe in - Page 38 MV5BMjg5NTU1YjQtYThmZS00MWZjLWExMjgtMGEyOTc4NDJjN2Q5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDE5MTU2MDE@._V1_UY268_CR1,0,182,268_AL_
    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:39 pm

    Quincy Endicott wrote:Svuda postoji private insurance. U UK BUPA pokriva oko 10% pacijenata. Ali NHS pokriva 100%.
    libtard! a future to believe in - Page 38 2849097393
    avatar

    Posts : 10317
    Join date : 2012-02-10

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Nino Quincampoix Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:46 pm

    Pa ne vidim zašto bi bilo ko razmišljao o ukidanju privatnog osiguranja za one koji hoće da ga plaćaju dodatno.
    Anonymous
    Guest

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:53 pm

    i treba da ga naplaćuju
    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:53 pm

    Quincy Endicott wrote:Pa ne vidim zašto bi bilo ko razmišljao o ukidanju privatnog osiguranja za one koji hoće da ga plaćaju dodatno.
    Sandersov plan je potpuna eliminacija privatnog osiguranja.
    Anonymous
    Guest

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Guest Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:55 pm

    Gargamel wrote:
    Djamolidine Abdoujaparov wrote:znači Berni "uporno insistira da u stvari nije deo partije" samo kad učestvuje u prajmarijima te partije? gde se vidi to uporno insistiranje?
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/03/08/bernie-sanders-democrat-complicated/EqijixWUCUXz4dOxcMgF1N/story.html
    “I am a Democrat now,” Sanders proclaimed to reporters at the State House in November 2015.
    ...
    Last year, when it came time for Sanders to stand for reelection to the Senate in Vermont, he did what he has done since he sought the Burlington mayor’s office in 1980: He ran as an independent.


    https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/700121429/bernie-sanders-files-to-run-as-a-democrat-and-an-independent
    Bernie Sanders filed Monday to be a candidate for the Senate in 2024 — as an independent. But last month, Sanders filed as a Democrat for president.

    koje je to aparatčike gore tretirao u ovoj kampanji nego u prethodnoj? šta su konkretni primeri toga?
    kleti establišment su oni koji ga ne podržavaju, što je u njegovoj retorici jednako korupcija. Planned Parenthood (prošli put) i ThinkProgress (ovaj put), do otvorenih optužbi za nameštanje ovaj put. posebno je glup ovaj deo o tome "kako neki ljudi kažu", tako i Tramp voli da sere.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/27/bernie-sanders-some-people-say-i-would-have-been-n/
    Sen. Bernard Sanders reopened old wounds for Democrats this week, saying “some people say” he would have defeated President Trump in 2016 if the party’s nominating system wasn’t “rigged” against him.

    “Some people say that if maybe that system was not rigged against me, I would have won the nomination and defeated Donald Trump — that’s what some people say,” he said.


    Gargamel wrote:na osnovu čega bi mu iko mogao zameriti nepoverenje prema partijskim strukturama koje mu očigledno nisu bile naklonjene prošli put?
    tako je. ali to ide u oba smera... na osnovu čega bi ljudi koji su ceo život proveli kao partijski aktivisti bili naklonjeni tipu koji i nije deo partije, i očito ima nameru da im svima redom hebe milu majku?

    mislim... Sandersova retorika + retorika osoblja je u dobroj meri to da bi oni najradije pregazili demokratsku stranku, i umesto postojećih struktura stvorili nove i starije.
    pa nije tajna da je bio independent. verovatno bi se tako i kandidovao za predsednika da nije naopakog sistema koji žestoko favorizuje dve partije. a voting record i ideološka pozicija demokrate čine jedinim logičnim izborom, ne znam da je to išta čudno ili znak neke zadnje namere prema sirotoj nezaštićenoj partiji.

    i daj ne zezaj, ako su najgore stvari u ovoj kampanji koje možeš da mu prigovoriš to što se branio od napada Think Progressa (brt i 1 Nira se ogradila od toga) i ova "some people say" izjava, onda stvarno...

    za ovo o oba smera: niko ne traži da mu budu naklonjeni, to ni na Jacobinu nećeš pročitati a future to believe in - Page 38 1233199462 , to se ne očekuje niti bi bilo poželjno.

    "da im hebe milu majku", mislim cry me a river, jbt 1 Berni će srca na živo da im izvadi i pojede. 1 strašno.

    odakle ti to da bi "najradije pregazili demokratsku stranku"? stvarno, gde je ta retorika? to može da vidi samo neko ko poistovećuje partijsko rukovodstvo sa samom partijom. Berni već nekoliko godina predvodi jedno krilo unutar te partije, angažovan je na izborima širom države (na kojima, uzgred, i to je dobro poznato, partija favorizuje kandidate koji imaju veću donatorsku podršku, čineći grassroots kandidatima život mnogo težim), zapošljava u sopstvenoj kampanji (eno gore kod Gargantue u postu) ljude kojima je velika stavka u CV-u rad u toj partiji i kampanjama njenih mejnstrim kandidata, itd.

    to je tako lažna dilema: ili ćemo svi to toe the line, ili će krvožedna komunjara sve da razjebe i da hebe svima milu majku. tako se stvari postavljaju samo ako želiš da zaštitiš stranku (=stranačko rukovodstvo) od svake kritike i preispitivanja.
    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:35 am

    Djamolidine Abdoujaparov wrote:odakle ti to da bi "najradije pregazili demokratsku stranku"? stvarno, gde je ta retorika? to može da vidi samo neko ko poistovećuje partijsko rukovodstvo sa samom partijom.
    Sanders i njegove galamdžije su sve koji se ne slažu sa njim strpali u "establišment". u skladu sa time, establišmentarija su i novinari, medijske kuće, misleći rezervoari, nevladine organizacije... nije samo partijsko rukovodstvo, već kompletna partijska i nepartijska demokratama naklonjena infrastruktura. u neku ruku, to je i tačno - "establišment" su i Nensi Pelosi, i ThinkProgress, i NYT, i WaPo...

    ima takva zapaljiva retorika efekta i može da bude od koristi, ali ima i negativnu stranu. hebem li ga, kada god on ili neko od njegovih pomene revoluciju, ja pomislim: "Aman, batalite te gluposti."

    (ja sam već napisao na drugoj temi da valja razdvojiti retoriku od Sandersovog pristupa, i napisao sam da je u suštini kompromizer.)

    to je tako lažna dilema: ili ćemo svi to toe the line, ili će krvožedna komunjara sve da razjebe i da hebe svima milu majku.
    već napisao: Vorenka nije na liniji, i dobar deo onoga što predlaže je podjednako radikalno.

    ali se Voren ne zahebava pričama o establišmentu i revoluciji. ona kada nekoga napadne, ide konkretno - cilja sasvim konkretnu ličnost ili firmu, pa je i retorika daleko manje zapaljiva.
    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:48 am

    Gargamel wrote:(ja sam već napisao na drugoj temi da valja razdvojiti retoriku od Sandersovog pristupa, i napisao sam da je u suštini kompromizer.)
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/24/18510756/bernie-sanders-2020-democrats-neoliberals-chill

    Sanders, an independent Vermont senator, tends to portray the institutional Democratic Party as corrupt and relentlessly sows suspicion about the motives and integrity of everyone who disagrees with him. He treats the catastrophe of the 2016 election as a deserved rebuke to party leaders. And he brushes aside mountains of practical realities that others have spent years dealing with.

    But blowing up over this makes no sense. The whole point of a party establishment is to be cynical, detached, practical-minded, and realistic. If they assess Sanders’s actual track record —rather than his personally insulting rhetoric — they’d discover a fairly unremarkable blue-state liberal who’s good at winning elections and has extensive experience with the disappointing realities of the legislative process.
    Erős Pista

    Posts : 82750
    Join date : 2012-06-10

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:50 am

    Zapaljiva retorika, jbt bob.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:59 am

    William Murderface wrote:Zapaljiva retorika, jbt bob.
    malo šaljenja.


    Gargamel

    Posts : 1033
    Join date : 2015-01-09

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Gargamel Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:01 am

    Gargamel wrote:ali se Voren ne zahebava pričama o establišmentu i revoluciji. ona kada nekoga napadne, ide konkretno - cilja sasvim konkretnu ličnost ili firmu, pa je i retorika daleko manje zapaljiva.
    zvezda je zivot wrote:
    Erős Pista

    Posts : 82750
    Join date : 2012-06-10

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Erős Pista Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:16 am

    Gargamel wrote:
    William Murderface wrote:Zapaljiva retorika, jbt bob.
    malo šaljenja.




    Centrist sense of humour is no laughing matter.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Anonymous
    Guest

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Guest Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:08 am

    boomer crook

    Posts : 37657
    Join date : 2014-10-27

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:37 am

    tramp ce ugaziti vorenovu. mozda deda ima neke sanse.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    boomer crook

    Posts : 37657
    Join date : 2014-10-27

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:40 am

    Djamolidine Abdoujaparov wrote:da da, kapiram, samo nisam ubeđen da je to nešto što može da motiviše bitan broj birača. njemu trebaju radništvo i sirotilja, otprilike, koji slabo izlaze na izbore i kojima, pretpostavljam, taj status anti-establišment kandidata nije posebno bitan faktor kad se odlučuju da li da izađu. tačno obrnut proces, mutatis mutandis, od onog Šumerovog “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”
    mislim da za uspeh u tome nije presudno da li ga birači percipiraju kao run of the mill demokratu ili nekog anti-establišment maverika. ne može da škodi, doduše.

    ja mislim da odredjen nekonvencionalan, grass-roots, pristup moze da dopre do dela ovih glasaca uz visoku motivisanost sandersovog tima. prituzbe na racun bernijevaca da su "fanatizovani" je zapravo najbolja preporuka.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    zvezda je zivot

    Posts : 7337
    Join date : 2014-11-07

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by zvezda je zivot Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:52 pm

    bruno sulak wrote:tramp ce ugaziti vorenovu. mozda deda ima neke sanse.

    elektabiliti? toliko ste kukali kad su to koristili protiv bernija, ali je okej ako napises da ne mozes zenom na trampa.

    ne cudi sto bernijeva kampanja sve vise lici na trampovu



    _____
    ova zemlja to je to
    boomer crook

    Posts : 37657
    Join date : 2014-10-27

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:54 pm

    jebo je na vidovdan.

    nisam siguran da tulsi ne bi imala sanse protiv trampa. vorenova je idealna za predstavnicka tela i savrseno razume kako funkcionisu ali nije zena za cirkus koji ce uslediti.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    zvezda je zivot

    Posts : 7337
    Join date : 2014-11-07

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by zvezda je zivot Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:59 pm

    ne znam ko bi glasao za nju. ja licno znam za samo 2 osobe u mom krugu koje glasaju za tulsi, a prilicno sam povezan. to su Leteci Polip i stivi malk. mada malk je navija za djokovica ('djoko bro' kako kaze) pa kapiram da pre hipsterski gotivi likove koje svi mrze nego sto stvarno podrzava tulsi.


    _____
    ova zemlja to je to
    boomer crook

    Posts : 37657
    Join date : 2014-10-27

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:01 pm

    to ti je ko ono rock, papers, shotgun. svako ima neke moci koje ponistavaju onog drugog. ko pokemoni.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    zvezda je zivot

    Posts : 7337
    Join date : 2014-11-07

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by zvezda je zivot Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:09 pm

    inace, kako ljubitelji zice reagiraju sto devid sajmon, kreator najbolje serije svih vremena, covek koji nas je naucio da vidimo ameriku 21. veka u jednom totalitetu za koji smo verovali da vise nije moguc, uporno truje protiv bernija? misim on sigurno zna bolje od nas sta je amerika.

    ja bih se recimo smorio kad bi se pincon javio na tviteru i reko zdravo ja sam tomas pincon i podrzavam elizabet voren.


    _____
    ova zemlja to je to
    Anonymous
    Guest

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Guest Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:10 pm

    a future to believe in - Page 38 3579118792
    smorilo te što juče niko nije zagrizao?
    boomer crook

    Posts : 37657
    Join date : 2014-10-27

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by boomer crook Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:11 pm

    mislim da je sustinska razlika izmedju bernija i vorenke jako mala. bili bi dobri running mates. ono ko jovo bakic i vesna pesic.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started

    a future to believe in - Page 38 Empty Re: a future to believe in

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Nov 14, 2024 5:14 pm