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    a future to believe in

    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:04 am

    Indy wrote:ali to ko kontroliše tzv. demokratski izabrane političare nije tako teško utvrditi... samo treba pratiti novac. Evo npr. kako izgleda kad se ustanovi ko kontroliše konkretne političare.
    ovaj... jesi li ti pročitao dati članak?


    Booker, like all senators, voted to protect his home state’s interests. Booker was following the predictable, longstanding pattern of elected officials to try to protect the jobs and industries that dominate their home states.

    The Democrat who has received the most from the pharmaceutical companies, according to OpenSecrets, is Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. But Schumer, like McCain, also voted in favor of the Sanders-Klobuchar amendment. Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden has received more than $600,000 from pharmaceutical companies — more than three times that received by Booker — and also backed the amendment. (So did Ohio’s Sherrod Brown, who received two times as many donations as Booker.)

    The pharmaceutical industry has a “massive” presence in New Jersey, Baker says. It’s almost unheard of for a New Jersey politician to go against pharmaceutical companies — it’d be like a politician from Maine arguing for onerous new regulations on fisheries, or an Iowa Republican voting against ethanol subsidies.
    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:11 am

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-loves-this-dollar1-trillion-war-machine

    In 1985, for example, protesters massed at the General Electric plant in Burlington, Vermont, where Sanders was serving as mayor. They were protesting the fact that the plant was manufacturing Gatling guns to fight socialists in Central America.

    Jim Condon, now a Democratic state legislator in Vermont, was news director of a local radio station at the time and describes himself as an “old acquaintance” of the senator.

    “There were protesters who were unhappy that General Electric was manufacturing Gatling guns at the plant, and so they would lock themselves to the gates and engage in civil disobedience. And so the mayor, Bernie, finally got cops to go in and arrest the protesters,” Condon told The Daily Beast. “The GE plant was one of the largest providers of jobs in the city. So it was economically important that the plant stay open and people who worked there went to work.”
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:24 am

    ne kapiram. lik koji ima u svom posedu ne znam koliko kvm po njujorku, i kome caca za 18i ostavio milionce jer eto tako, on takav nije deo 'elite' ekonomske? i od njega ima zajebanijih?
    Indy

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    Post by Indy Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:25 am

    Pročitao ja, Gargamele, no ne znači da smo isto interpretirali...
    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:40 pm

    Mr.Pink wrote:ne kapiram. lik koji ima u svom posedu ne znam koliko kvm po njujorku, i kome caca za 18i ostavio milionce jer eto tako, on takav nije deo 'elite' ekonomske? i od njega  ima zajebanijih?
    Trampov kompleks spada u 15 do 20 najvećih firmi koje se bave nekretninama u Njujorku, ne prvih 10. pri tome, gradskom (i NY državnom) ekonomijom i politikom dominiraju multinacionalne firme kojima je baza u Njujorku. velika je to bara, Tramp nije bio jedan od krokodila.

    druga je stvar što Tramp svima objašnjava kako je on najbogatiji, najlepši, najkuratiji...


    Last edited by Gargamel on Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total
    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:06 am

    Indy wrote:Pročitao ja, Gargamele, no ne znači da smo isto interpretirali...
    hebem li ga, mislim da tvoja interpretacija zahteva malkice nategnuto tumačenje onoga što je izneto u članku.
    паће

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    Post by паће Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:17 pm

    Gargamel wrote:
    druga je stvar što Tramp svima objašnjava kako je on najbogatiji, najlepši, najkuratiji...

    Меншчини, мада нисам нешто пратио док сам виђао рекламе за његов ријалити, да је њему довољно да савата неки број који ће у то да му поверују.

    Сад ми личи на Белог коме је упалио штос.


    _____
       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:20 pm

    mislim da je tvrditi da je sanders vise establisment od trampa sumanut. establisment nisu samo izabrani predstavnici.

    moz misliti samo 15. firma u srcu svetske ril estejt industrije. poceo je od nicega!


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:23 pm

    Hahaha, ma Trampara je abitan, bitno je koje interese predstavlja, a to je najestablišmentskiji establišment - pre svega ekonomski i vojni.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:24 pm

    Gargamel wrote:
    bruno sulak wrote:dve reci: roj kon. tramp je deo ekonomske elite koja je deo politickog aparata. on nije negacija nego nalicje sistema.
    paaa... ne. tačnije bi bilo reći da je naličje Njujorka.

    ima tome godinu i više... na moju opasku da se Tramp ponaša kao tipični filosemita, verovatno zato što veruje da veruje da Jevreji kontrolišu ovo i ono, dobio sam i odgovor: "What do you expect, he's typical and not very smart New Yorker. You know who are the most influential people in NYC real estate?"

    eventualni politički uticaj mu je bio nepostojeći van grada. čak ni u samom Njujorku, on nikada nije bio deo elite - to su bankari i političari. zonska liga frajer.

    nyc je the grad. nije to mali uticaj. to je kao da kazes: jebiga nije obama imao neki uticaj izvan cikaga. trampara se ceo zivot krece medju medijskom i finansijskom elitom. da li njen najuspesniji predstavnik? nije. ali to nije ni bitno. mi ovde polemisemo sa tezom da je sanders VISE establisment.

    na kraju krajeva, garg verovatno ces imati prilike da glasas za hilari ponovo. samo ne razumem zasto.


    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
    паће

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    Post by паће Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    bruno sulak wrote:
    moz misliti samo 15. firma u srcu svetske ril estejt industrije. poceo je od nicega!

    Ма које ничега... добро, није баш из оног вица "како доћи до првог милиона? кренеш од милијарде...", ал ваљда је нешто остало од маторог Друмпфа.


    _____
       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:38 pm

    bruno sulak wrote:mislim da je tvrditi da je sanders vise establisment od trampa sumanut. establisment nisu samo izabrani predstavnici.
    jesi li bio koji put u MoMA? sigurno jesi. Tramp nikada nije otišao, možda i ne zna gde je to.

    šta hoću da kažem:
    Tramp je bogatun koji nije dovoljno bogat da predstavlja jednog od ekonomskih krokodila u Njujorku. Među 100 najvećih firmi u NYC, jedna ili dve se bave nekretninama. e sad... da je Trampovo bogatstvo kojim slučajem kombinovano sa porodičnim pedigreom, dobrim obrazovanjem, finim manirima, i sličnim radostima elitističkog uzgoja, onda bi dotični mogao da se ugura u njujoršku elitu.  

    ovakav kakav je, tipični bizmismen & ljakse kome je tata ostavio pare i ništa drugo. novus homo koji je želeo da bude jedan od uvaženih i poštovanih građana. za njujorške snobove, nije dovoljno bogat + promaja u glavi.
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:42 pm

    ma kakve veze ima sto nije na nekoj forbsovoj top 10 listi bogatuna - on je njeno ovaplocenje koje je doguralo do oval ofisa


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    radikalni patrijarhalni feminista

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    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:44 pm

    i svoditi to na karakter i 'manire' je besmisleno. to je mozda i jedino sto ga izdvaja od drugih 'pristojnijih filantropa'

    kao, musk ili neki takav debil novokomponovani bi bio bolji. ne bi. vrv bi bio i gori.
    паће

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    Post by паће Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:08 pm

    Обратно, неко од старе лове, пета или осма генерација, би се можда изметнуо у ону лудницу да је аристократија некако одговорна за добробит својих кметова, то је још од Римљана остало тако, па би можда упрегао то своје елитистичко образовање да нека добра начини.
     Прескочити трећу или четврту генерацију, они у свим династичким списима (Буденброкови, Форсајтови...) служе да се дају на философију, живопис, поесију и да спичкају наследство. Шта не дочека пету генерацију, није ни ваљало.


    _____
       cousin for roasting the rakija
       И кажем себи у сну, еј бре коњу па ти ни немаш озвучење, имаш оне две кутијице око монитора, видећеш кад се пробудиш...
    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:22 pm

    Mr.Pink wrote:kao, musk ili neki takav debil novokomponovani bi bio bolji. ne bi. vrv bi bio i gori.
    u ovoj diskusiji, potpuno je nebitno da li bi neko drugi bio bolji ili gori.

    ovde se radi o tome da Tramp nikada nije bio deo "elite" ili "establišmenta". on je žarko želeo da bude deo elite, ali to mu je bilo uskraćeno jer nije imao dovoljno para da nadoknadi nedostatke u poreklu i u glavi. pa je zadovoljštinu za povređeni ego morao da traži među prolovima i u kiselom grožđu anti-elitizma.

    edit:
    dok Sanders ne deluje kao elitista, niti ima neku posebnu želju da bude član kluba. ali je po prirodi posla on to bio, koliko god nevoleo to društvo.


    Last edited by Gargamel on Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:31 pm

    bruno sulak wrote:na kraju krajeva, garg verovatno ces imati prilike da glasas za hilari ponovo. samo ne razumem zasto.
    na preliminarnim izborima 2016e, neglasao za Klintonku.

    ionako je jako malo verovatno da će Klintonka ponovo na izbore. na preliminarnim 2020e ću glasati za onoga ko mi je ideološki najbliži (među iole izglednim kandidatima, Sanders ili Voren). na predsedničkim ću glasati za bilo kog kandidata demokrata.
    Ferenc Puskás

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    Post by Ferenc Puskás Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:03 pm

    Gargamel wrote:
    Mr.Pink wrote:kao, musk ili neki takav debil novokomponovani bi bio bolji. ne bi. vrv bi bio i gori.
    u ovoj diskusiji, potpuno je nebitno da li bi neko drugi bio bolji ili gori.

    ovde se radi o tome da Tramp nikada nije bio deo "elite" ili "establišmenta". on je žarko želeo da bude deo elite, ali to mu je bilo uskraćeno jer nije imao dovoljno para da nadoknadi nedostatke u poreklu i u glavi. pa je zadovoljštinu za povređeni ego morao da traži među prolovima i u kiselom grožđu anti-elitizma.

    edit:
    dok Sanders ne deluje kao elitista, niti ima neku posebnu želju da bude član kluba. ali je po prirodi posla on to bio, koliko god nevoleo to društvo.
    Pa jel makar sad postao dio establišmenta kao predsjednik, ili to nije u prirodi posla? Ne radi se o ugledu Trumpa među establišmentom niti općenito.


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    Ha rendelkezésre áll a szükséges pénz, a vége általában jó.
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:05 pm

    ko da gledam bunjuela dok citam to o trampovim 'mracnim zeljama'



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    Gargamel

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    Post by Gargamel Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:49 pm

    otto katz wrote:Pa jel makar sad postao dio establišmenta kao predsjednik, ili to nije u prirodi posla?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U12bWXqxgXM
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:17 am

    Možda je ovde najbolje, mada ima širi značaj - https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/11/the-left-case-against-open-borders/



    The Left Case against Open Borders
    by Angela Nagle

    ...

    Today, by far the most visible anti-globalization movement takes the form of the anti-migrant backlash led by Donald Trump and other “populists.” The Left, meanwhile, seems to have no option but to recoil in horror at Trump’s “Muslim ban” and news stories about ICE hunting down migrant families; it can only react against whatever Trump is doing. If Trump is for immigration controls, then the Left will demand the opposite. And so today talk of “open borders” has entered mainstream liberal discourse, where once it was confined to radical free market think tanks and libertarian anarchist circles.

    While no serious political party of the Left is offering concrete proposals for a truly borderless society, by embracing the moral arguments of the open-borders Left and the economic arguments of free market think tanks, the Left has painted itself into a corner. If “no human is illegal!,” as the protest chant goes, the Left is implicitly accepting the moral case for no borders or sovereign nations at all. But what implications will unlimited migration have for projects like universal public health care and education, or a federal jobs guarantee? And how will progressives convincingly explain these goals to the public?

    During the 2016 Democratic primary campaign, when Vox editor Ezra Klein suggested open borders policies to Bernie Sanders, the senator famously showed his vintage when he replied, “Open borders? No. That’s a Koch brothers proposal.” This momentarily confused the official narrative, and Sanders was quickly accused of “sounding like Donald Trump.” Beneath the generational differences revealed in this exchange, however, is a larger issue. The destruction and abandonment of labor politics means that, at present, immigration issues can only play out within the framework of a culture war, fought entirely on moral grounds. In the heightened emotions of America’s public debate on migration, a simple moral and political dichotomy prevails. It is “right-wing” to be “against immigration” and “left-wing” to be “for immigration.” But the economics of migration tell a different story.

    ...

    Following Reagan and figures like Milton Friedman, George W. Bush championed liberalizing migration before, during, and after his presidency. Grover Norquist, a zealous advocate of Trump’s (and Bush’s and Reagan’s) tax cuts, has for years railed against the illiberalism of the trade unions, reminding us, “Hostility to immigration has traditionally been a union cause.”4

    He’s not wrong. From the first law restricting immigration in 1882 to Cesar Chavez and the famously multiethnic United Farm Workers protesting against employers’ use and encouragement of illegal migration in 1969, trade unions have often opposed mass migration. They saw the deliberate importation of illegal, low-wage workers as weakening labor’s bargaining power and as a form of exploitation. There is no getting around the fact that the power of unions relies by definition on their ability to restrict and withdraw the supply of labor, which becomes impossible if an entire workforce can be easily and cheaply replaced. Open borders and mass immigration are a victory for the bosses.

    And the bosses almost universally support it. Mark Zuckerberg’s think tank and lobbying organization, Forward, which advocates for liberalizing migration policies, lists among its “founders and funders” Eric Schmidt and Bill Gates, as well as CEOs and senior executives of YouTube, Dropbox, Airbnb, Netflix, Groupon, Walmart, Yahoo, Lyft, Instagram, and many others. 

    ...

    Admittedly, union opposition to mass migration was sometimes intermingled with racism (which was present across American society) in previous eras. What is omitted in libertarian attempts to smear trade unions as “the real racists,” however, is that in the days of strong trade unions, they were also able to use their power to mount campaigns of international solidarity with workers’ movements around the world. Unions raised the wages of millions of nonwhite members, while deunionization today is estimated to cost black American men $50 a week.

    ...

    Today’s well-intentioned activists have become the useful idiots of big business. With their adoption of “open borders” advocacy—and a fierce moral absolutism that regards any limit to migration as an unspeakable evil—any criticism of the exploitative system of mass migration is effectively dismissed as blasphemy. Even solidly leftist politicians, like Bernie Sanders in the United States and Jeremy Corbyn in the United Kingdom, are accused of “nativism” by critics if they recognize the legitimacy of borders or migration restriction at any point. This open borders radicalism ultimately benefits the elites within the most powerful countries in the world, further disempowers organized labor, robs the developing world of desperately needed professionals, and turns workers against workers.

    ...

    The importation of low-paid labor is a tool of oppression that divides workers and benefits those in power. The proper response, therefore, is not abstract moralism about welcoming all migrants as an imagined act of charity, but rather addressing the root causes of migration in the relationship between large and powerful economies and the smaller or developing economies from which people migrate.

    ...

    Despite the rhetoric about “shithole countries” or nations “not sending their best,” the toll of the migration brain drain on developing economies has been enormous. According to the Census Bureau’s figures for 2017, about 45 percent of migrants who have arrived in the United States since 2010 are college educated. Developing countries are struggling to retain their skilled and professional citizens, often trained at great public cost, because the largest and wealthiest economies that dominate the global market have the wealth to snap them up. Today, Mexico also ranks as one of the world’s biggest exporters of educated professionals, and its economy consequently suffers from a persistent “qualified employment deficit.” This developmental injustice is certainly not limited to Mexico. According to Foreign Policy magazine, “There are more Ethiopian physicians practicing in Chicago today than in all of Ethiopia, a country of 80 million.” It is not difficult to see why the political and economic elites of the world’s richest countries would want the world to “send their best,” regardless of the consequences for the rest of the world. But why is the moralizing, pro–open borders Left providing a humanitarian face for this naked self-interest?

    According to the best analysis of capital flows and global wealth today, globalization is enriching the wealthiest people in the wealthiest countries at the expense of the poorest, not the other way around. Some have called it “aid in reverse.” Billions in debt interest payments move from Africa to the large banks in London and New York. Vast private wealth is generated in extractive commodity industries and through labor arbitrage every year, and repatriated back to the wealthy nations where the multinational corporations are based. Trillions of dollars in capital flight occurs because international corporations take advantage of tax havens and secrecy jurisdictions, made possible by the World Trade Organization’s liberalization of “trade inefficient” invoicing regulations and other policies.

    Global wealth inequality is the primary push factor driving mass migration, and the globalization of capital cannot be separated from this matter. There is also the pull factor of exploitative employers in the United States who seek to profit from nonunionized, low-wage workers in sectors like agriculture as well as through the importation of a large white-collar workforce already trained in other countries. The net result is an estimated population of eleven million people living in the United States illegally.

    ...

    It has now become a common slogan among advocates of open borders—and many mainstream commentators—that “there is no migrant crisis.” But whether they like it or not, radically transformative levels of mass migration are unpopular across every section of society and throughout the world. And the people among whom it is unpopular, the citizenry, have the right to vote. Thus migration increasingly presents a crisis that is fundamental to democracy. Any political party wishing to govern will either have to accept the will of the people, or it will have to repress dissent in order to impose the open borders agenda. Many on the libertarian Left are among the most aggressive advocates of the latter. And for what? To provide moral cover for exploitation? To ensure that left-wing parties that could actually address any of these issues at a deeper international level remain out of power?

    ...

    As the child of migrants, and someone who has spent most of my life in a country with persistently high levels of emigration—Ireland—I have always viewed the migration question differently than my well-intentioned friends on the left in large, world-dominating economies. When austerity and unemployment hit Ireland—after billions in public money was used to bail out the financial sector in 2008—I watched my entire peer group leave and never return. This isn’t just a technical matter. It touches the heart and soul of a nation, like a war. It means the constant hemorrhaging of idealistic and energetic young generations, who normally rejuvenate and reimagine a society. In Ireland, as in every high-emigration country, there have always been anti-emigration campaigns and movements, led by the Left, demanding full employment in times of recession. But they’re rarely strong enough to withstand the forces of the global market. Meanwhile, the guilty and nervous elites in office during a period of popular anger are only too happy to see a potentially radical generation scatter across the world.

    I’m always amazed at the arrogance and the strangely imperial mentality of British and American pro–open borders progressives who believe that they are performing an act of enlightened charity when they “welcome” PhDs from eastern Europe or Central America driving them around and serving them food. In the wealthiest nations, open borders advocacy seems to function as a fanatical cult among true believers—a product of big business and free market lobbying is carried along by a larger group of the urban creative, tech, media, and knowledge economy class, who are serving their own objective class interests by keeping their transient lifestyles cheap and their careers intact as they parrot the institutional ideology of their industries. The truth is that mass migration is a tragedy, and upper-middle-class moralizing about it is a farce. Perhaps the ultra-wealthy can afford to live in the borderless world they aggressively advocate for, but most people need—and want—a coherent, sovereign political body to defend their rights as citizens.

    ...

    To begin with, the Left must stop citing the latest Cato Institute propaganda in order to ignore the effects of immigration on domestic labor, especially the working poor who are likely to suffer disproportionately from expanding the labor pool. Immigration policies should be designed to ensure that the bargaining power of workers is not significantly imperiled. This is especially true in times of wage stagnation, weak unions, and massive inequality.

    ...

    Reducing the tensions of mass migration thus requires improving the prospects of the world’s poor. Mass migration itself will not accomplish this: it creates a race to the bottom for workers in wealthy countries and a brain drain in poor ones. The only real solution is to correct the imbalances in the global economy, and radically restructure a system of globalization that was designed to benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor. This involves, to start with, structural changes to trade policies that prevent necessary, state-led development in emerging economies. Anti-labor trade deals like nafta must also be opposed. It is equally necessary to take on a financial system that funnels capital away from the developing world and into inequality-heightening asset bubbles in rich countries. Finally, although the reckless foreign policies of the George W. Bush administration have been discredited, the temptation to engage in military crusades seems to live on. This should be opposed. U.S.-led foreign invasions have killed millions in the Middle East, created millions of refugees and migrants, and devastated fundamental infrastructure.

    ...


    Meanwhile, members of the open-borders Left may try to convince themselves that they are adopting a radical position. But in practice they are just replacing the pursuit of economic equality with the politics of big business, masquerading as a virtuous identitarianism. America, still one of the richest countries in the world, should be able to provide not just full employment but a living wage for all of its people, including in jobs which open borders advocates claim “Americans won’t do.” Employers who exploit migrants for cheap labor illegally—at great risk to the migrants themselves—should be blamed, not the migrants who are simply doing what people have always done when facing economic adversity. By providing inadvertent cover for the ruling elite’s business interests, the Left risks a significant existential crisis, as more and more ordinary people defect to far-right parties. At this moment of crisis, the stakes are too high to keep getting it wrong.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:19 am

    Odlican tekst.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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    Zuper

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    Post by Zuper Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:41 pm

    Dobar je u prepoznavanju posledica ali ne pogadjanja i resevanja sustinskih problema, nesto kao Marks. O tome sam vec pisao ovde. Najveci bogatasi i njihova globalna preduzeca se najvise zalazu za otvorene granice iz svojih novcanih interesa(Soros, Kohovi...).
    Ali sustina nije dodirnuta.
    Nije moguce odrzati danasnji socijlanu zastitu, penzije, zdravstvo, obrazovanje na zapadu ako imas katastrofalni fertilit od 1.5 po zeni. Zato moraju da se uvoze imigranti, da bi sistem funkcionisao.
    To je problem levice i desnice.
    Ali za tako stanje su vise krivi socijalisti(-demokrati) i liberali. Jer su oni postavili takav duh vremena.
    Sa druge strane pitanje je da li moze drugacije a da ne budu ugrozena necija prava.
    I to su ozbiljne stvari, sta birati i raditi.
    паће

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    Post by паће Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:26 pm

    Zuper wrote:
    Nije moguce odrzati danasnji socijlanu zastitu, penzije, zdravstvo, obrazovanje na zapadu ako imas katastrofalni fertilit od 1.5 po zeni

    A катастрофална плодност мора да се истакне, да се не би случајно негде споменуло да је систем социјалне заштите досад сто пута опљачкан, да у каси одавно нема пара него само неке државне обвезнице и разни сумњиви папири, и да све то ионако није битно ако се погледа колико макну они из 0,1% - али не, мора се вазда причати како систем није одржив јер плодност.


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    Post by beatakeshi Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:29 pm

    Obrazovanje? Pa ako je manje dece, manji su i troškovi obrazovanja (dece).

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