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    Rat u Ukrajini

    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:08 pm

    Pa i nisu, bili su skroz odseceni nekoliko dana, ali su odblokirali put juce. Naravno, sve je to relativno, jer im je linija snabdevanja pod konstantnom vatrom pobunjenika.


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:10 pm

    da, željno iščekuju i pozivaju se na primirje jer nisu u kotlu...

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 2304934895


    _____
    radikalni patrijarhalni feminista

    smrk kod dijane hrk
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:24 pm

    za divno čudo, primirje se poštuje duž celog fronta, uključujući i Debaljcevo.
    aj da vidimo.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:53 am

    Primirje je izuzetno klimavo, obe strane prijavljuju kršenja, Debaljcevo, Jenakijevo...
    Videćemo sutra. Pesimista sam.
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:35 am

    Rebeli kažu da su izbacili Ukrajince i iz industrijske zone Debaljceva i od šireg rejona železničkog čvora, te da su odbili sve pokušaje soldateske da probije obruč.
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:35 pm

    Mr.Blonde wrote:da, željno iščekuju i pozivaju se na primirje jer nisu u kotlu...

    Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 2304934895

    Upravo su Ukrajinci indirektno priznali da su u obrucu: ministar inostranih poslova je optuzio "nelegalne naoruzane grupe" da ne dozvoljavaju OEBS-ovim posmatracima da prodju do Debeljtseva, sto znaci da kontrolisu bas sve prilaze gradu.


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:51 pm

    Čekaj, ti si ladno do danas verovao hunti da njihove trupe nisu u obruču?  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 2729202060



    edit: pomoćnik selektora Ukrajine odbio mobilizaciju, istakavši da nikada neće ratovati tamo gde žive njegova porodica i deca i gde su mu sahranjeni roditelji. Inače, čovek je iz Luganska, Aleksandar Zavarov. Ovi ladno mobilišu ljude u šestoj deceniji života  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 3274312807
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:58 pm

    Filipenko wrote:Čekaj, ti si ladno do danas verovao hunti da njihove trupe nisu u obruču?  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 2729202060

    Ladno ne verujem ni jednoj strani kad tvrdi nesto sto joj odgovara.


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:21 pm

    koliko sam ja razumeo ti sto su u obrucu su ukrajincima poslednja karta sto imaju. 

    mislim da rusi nece popustiti i nece dozovliti da se izvuku. zapravo, mislim da ce ih drzati kao taoce i da bi ojacali svoju poziciju, pa ako ne bude nista od pregovora mogu zaista da se u par dana povezu sa Krimom.

    nikakvo infiltriranje OEBS ili EU zvanicnika se nece dozvoliti, jer bi njih ovi Ukrajinci stavili u prve redove u slucaju da pokusaju nekakav proboj i koristili kao zive stitove.
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:24 pm

    Ma nisu im poslednja karta, imaju skoro 100k vojnika, ali jeste vrlo neprijatno jer su doživeli težak poraz, a unutra su im dobre jedinice. U obruču je, po različitim procenama, od 7 do 9 hiljada vojnika.

    Ono što jeste caka je što se tvrdi da je od toga svaki četvrti strani plaćenik. Takođe, Debaljcevo je posred glavnog pravca Donjeck-Lugansk, naravno da neće rebeli tek tako da se povuku i ostave ga nakon što su ogroman trud uložili da ga opkole i potisnu ukrajinsku tzv. armiju.
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:28 pm

    pa cuj, na tih 100 k gustera, mornara i sta ti ja znam koga, 8 k nije zanemarljiv broj.


    _____
    radikalni patrijarhalni feminista

    smrk kod dijane hrk
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    Post by Guest Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:34 pm

    kako filipenko to carski objasni, kao kad su cetnici kojekakvi bili smatrani regularnom vojskom (raznih krajina i sl) u hrvatskoj, a domaca vojska proglasavana TZV, u njihovoj sopstvenoj drzavi Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 1399639816 

    ne zanima me nijedna strana, jer ne znam koji su jeziviji, sto se mene tice to su otprilike cetnici vs ustase.
    Mr.Pink

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    Post by Mr.Pink Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:42 pm

    burkholderia mallei wrote: to su otprilike cetnici vs ustase.


    derbi.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:46 pm

    da li ce evropa kad se ovo zavrsi (a ako se zavrsi tako sto ce rusija otkinuti deo ukrajine) nastaviti da se snabdeva energentima iz moskve, ili ce da zapecate te cevi i da nadju alternativne?
    Filipenko

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    Post by Filipenko Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:01 pm

    Mr.Blonde wrote:pa cuj, na tih 100 k gustera, mornara i sta ti ja znam koga, 8 k nije zanemarljiv broj.


    Nisam ni rekao da je zanemarljiv broj i svakako je osetan vojni poraz. Ali daleko od toga da je sve izgubljeno za ukrajinsku stranu, kao što rekoh, oni imaju odakle da nadoknade te gubitke, sve što će izgubiti jeste klin između Donjecka i Luganska. Prosto, nisu razmere takve da je sve gotovo, kako si formulisao, i da maltene pobunjenicima ostaje da prošetaju do Harkova.


    burkholderia mallei wrote:kako filipenko to carski objasni, kao kad su cetnici kojekakvi bili smatrani regularnom vojskom (raznih krajina i sl) u hrvatskoj, a domaca vojska proglasavana TZV, u njihovoj sopstvenoj drzavi Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 1399639816 

    ne zanima me nijedna strana, jer ne znam koji su jeziviji, sto se mene tice to su otprilike cetnici vs ustase.


    Izvinjavam se, ali zar nismo već ustanovili upravo na domaćem primeru kako je to kada regularna državna vojska preko noći postaje agresorska soldateska, jerbo su ljudi glasali za otcepljenje i "regularna" vojska puca po njima? Ono, nije blam da sada tvrdimo suprotno, da su granice država sve i svja, a ubiše se ljudi objašnjavajući da "Srbi moraju da prođu katarzu i shvate da su u njihova imena činjeni zločini po drugim državama" i slično ?


    burkholderia mallei wrote:da li ce evropa kad se ovo zavrsi (a ako se zavrsi tako sto ce rusija otkinuti deo ukrajine) nastaviti da se snabdeva energentima iz moskve, ili ce da zapecate te cevi i da nadju alternativne?


    Pravo pitanje je kome će Rusija želeti da prodaje energente kada se sve ovo završi. Evropa i sada kupuje energente od Rusije, a upravo insistira da se preko Ukrajine isporučuje što više energenata da bi tamošnjoj vazalnoj hunti ostajala kinta od takse na transport gasa. Međutim, Rusija za par godina završava kompletan gasovod ka Kini, gde će moći da prodaje sav gas koji danas ide Evropi. Isto tako, sa izgradnjom tzv. Turskog toka će sav gas koji se trenutno transportuje preko Ukrajine biti isporučivan do turske granice sa EU, a ako Evropa želi gas, neka sama izgradi Južni tok infrastrukturu za prihvat svog tog gasa. 

    Bilo je skoro u vestima kada se energetski EU rajhsminister Šefćović kao popišan vratio iz Moskve gde mu je rečeno da uskoro prestaju sve isporuke preko Ukrajine i neka izgrađuju gasovod do Turske ako žele da imaju gas. Vratio se u elegantnoj odevnoj kombinaciji rosno suzne, popišano žute i tvrde braon boje i zakukao da Gazprom nije više pouzdani partner. Neka grade LNG terminale uzduž i popreko za prihvat jeftinog američkog gasa, ko im brani  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 903208043


    Energetska bezbednost, to se učilo na ONO i DSZ fakultetu u Sarajevu Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 221005611
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:46 am

    kasnim  ali da cestitam filipu ako slavi

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    _____
    And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
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    Post by Guest Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:57 am

    Juče kod Marijupolja poginulo pet azovaca, a danas se nastavlja borba za Debaljcevo. 
    Kakvo crno primirje, nema od toga ništa.

    Zaharčenko preti zauzimanjem Marijupolja i Harkova (!?) ako Ukrajinci prekrše primirje.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:03 pm

    EU proširila sankcije protiv Rusije, šta kurac kakav Minsk. 


    The European Union placed more Ukrainians and Russians under sanctions on Monday, accusing them of "undermining or threatening" Ukraine's independence.
    The new list - published on the Official Journal of the European Communities (OJEC) at 8.30 a.m. GMT - places "restrictive measures" on 28 people or organizations, including Russia's First Deputy Minister of Defense, Arkady Bakhin.
    Also on the list was Deputy Minister of Defense Anatoly Antonov and Andrei Kartapolov, the deputy chief of the general staff of the Russian armed forces. The sanctions are due to come into effect immediately.
    The new penalties are part of an ongoing program by the European Union, but come just days after a cease-fire was announced in Ukraine. Military conflict with Russian separatists has been one of the biggest factors weighing on markets in recent months, but despite the cease-fire some of the rebels have not observed the truce, according to reports.
    The Russian Foreign Ministry said that Moscow would "adequately" respond to the sanctions, according to Reuters. It added that the measures contradicted common sense and would not result in a solution to the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:45 pm

    ova situacija ide na ruku samo prepperima sirom sveta, koji verovatno zive za ono "jesmo vam rekli?"
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:42 pm

    Obe strane saopštile su da nema uslova za povlačenje teškog naoružanja, tako da je to to od Minska 2.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:49 pm

    Bravobravobravo!



    In other news:

    Oligarchs and War
    One of the paradoxes of Ukrainian political life is that so-called "oligarchs," who themselves corrupt the political system, have garnered great power. As if Poroshenko himself weren't proof enough of such trends, one need look no further than Igor Kolomoisky, an oligarch appointed to run the region of Dnipropetrovsk near conflict-ridden Donetsk. Kolomoisky is worth approximately $1.6 billion and has reportedly conducted business deals for twenty years under successive administrations. Lasocki of the European Council on Foreign Relations remarks, "in exchange for keeping his province stable and defended from separatists, [Kolomoisky] has had his businesses interests left untouched."
    In Ukraine, oligarchs have become so powerful that they even exert a great degree of control over the media. But even as oligarchs plunder the state budget, ordinary Ukrainians are left to fend for themselves and living standards have stagnated. It's politically challenging, however, to question the oligarchs in the midst of war. When asked if he thought politicians intentionally focused on the war as a means to deflect attention from the need for greater transparency, Gud of Center UA forthrightly replies, "yes, sure."
    Oligarchs like Koloimoisky have wrapped themselves in the flag so as to pre-empt unwelcome criticism of their business dealings. Indeed, the oligarch even funds the Dnipro Battalion, a paramilitary outfit. By funding pro-Kiev groups fighting in the east, Kolomoisky has done wonders for his own public relations brand. "These bands of half-trained volunteer warriors," writes the New Yorker magazine, have done much of the fighting in the current conflict, operating largely independently of the government, and often without adequate coordination."
    One may ask: why has the Ukrainian war effort been so haphazardly organized? According to the New Yorker, the Ministry of Defense is notoriously corrupt and can't be trusted with state money. In another passage worth quoting at length, the magazine adds, "The Western press often portrays Ukraine's volunteer-led war effort as a feel-good story of solidarity and ingenuity. But behind this volunteerism is a state whose institutions are so dysfunctional that they cause more harm than good. The state's failures could have dangerous consequences. The Maidan movement, Poroshenko, and those in favor of arming Ukraine have referred, again and again, to Ukraine's commitment to 'European values.' But a country full of privately funded battalions looks more like pre-modern Europe than like a potential E.U. member."
    Just what kind of impact will corruption have upon the overall course of the war? Recently, U.S. Vice President Joe Biden reportedly warned Poroshenko in Kiev that corruption could prompt western backers to withdraw their support from Ukraine. Indeed, it could be difficult for western allies to justify arms shipments when a large proportion of materiel simply winds up on the black market. In a sign of the times, NATO has announced five trust funds to finance reform of the Ukrainian military even though soldiers don't have uniforms let alone adequate food.
    "Trust funds?" Fiscal Times asks rhetorically. "NATO members, it turns out, are so wary of the Ukrainian command that they refuse to provide money directly." Surveying the political landscape, Kyiv Post remarks rather aptly, "The West has stepped on the rake of Ukrainian corruption one too many times to be fooled again. Ukraine should not get more billions in loans or millions more in aid until it changes.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nikolas-kozloff/welcome-to-ukraine-one-of_b_6689734.html


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    boomer crook

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    Post by boomer crook Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:50 pm

    Mr.Blonde wrote:
    burkholderia mallei wrote: to su otprilike cetnici vs ustase.


    derbi.

    zacelja.

    secam se kada je jednom prilikom goldstajn odbrusio 'nasim' revizionistickim chetno istoricarima da 'biti bolji od ustasa i nije neki uspeh'.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:07 pm

    Spremite lavore za bljuvanje. BHL za WSJ.

    And here I discover another Petro Poroshenko: no longer the military leader from the plane; still less the billionaire president that I accompanied to the Élysée Palace a year ago; but a ravaged man, livid in the floodlights illuminating the scene.


    aaaaaa ovo je nivo ratnih almaha iz Prvog svetskog rata


    The president lingers at the bed of each of the injured, sometimes asking questions, sometimes offering sympathy, sometimes, with the hardiest, trying to joke. I think I even see him give a quiet blessing to an old woman as she hands him the fragments that had been removed from her legs, saying, “Here, Petro, you give these to Putin. Tell him they’re from Zoya in Kramatorsk.”

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-weekend-interview-on-the-road-to-putinlandia-1423871952


    Last edited by Gusztav Vege on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Ointagru Unartan

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    Post by Ointagru Unartan Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:09 pm

    Gusztav Vege wrote:Spremite lavore za bljuvanje. BHL za WSJ.

    And here I discover another Petro Poroshenko: no longer the military leader from the plane; still less the billionaire president that I accompanied to the Élysée Palace a year ago; but a ravaged man, livid in the floodlights illuminating the scene.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-weekend-interview-on-the-road-to-putinlandia-1423871952

    Nemamo pristup clanku bez pretplate. Rat u Ukrajini - Page 9 3363120308


    _____
    "Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
    Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.

    My Moon Che Gavara.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:10 pm

    Nisam sabskrajbovan, ali i ovo je dovoljno za bljuc.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije

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