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by Erős Pista Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:18 pm
Pa kolko ćeš puta da odgovoriš na taj post?
Django Unchained
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Pa kolko ćeš puta da odgovoriš na taj post?
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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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Koga po cenjenim burunđanima predstavlja lik kog igra Cristoph Waltz i zašto je on stranac?
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Zato što predstavlja evropsko humanističko obrazovanje i ideale.
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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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Pa dobro, ali ne znam koliko bi se to uklopilo u ova istorijska čitanja filma kojima se bavite - oslobođenje robova u Americi nema puno veze sa evropskim humanističkim obrazovanjem, ili tačnije - ne može se reći da su se robovi ikada pobunili zbog toga što su bili pod uticajem nekakvog evropskog humanističkog mišljenja.
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jel hriscanstvo spada u "evropsko humanisticko misljenje" ?
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Anđe'o wrote:Pa dobro, ali ne znam koliko bi se to uklopilo u ova istorijska čitanja filma kojima se bavite - oslobođenje robova u Americi nema puno veze sa evropskim humanističkim obrazovanjem, ili tačnije - ne može se reći da su se robovi ikada pobunili zbog toga što su bili pod uticajem nekakvog evropskog humanističkog mišljenja.
Grešiš.
- Spoiler:
This very same influence of the ideas of friends and admirers of Friedrich Schiller, here in the United States, helped elect Abraham Lincoln and, to a large degree, helped to win the Civil War for the anti-slavery forces. Very early on, the networks of Friedrich Schiller overlapped the anti-slavery networks. One example is Karl (or Charles) Follen, who fought in the Liberation Wars and emigrated to the United States in 1824, after the restoration of the oligarchy following the Congress of Vienna had been implemented. Follen became a professor of German at Harvard University in 1825, and lectured extensively on Friedrich Schiller. He created much interest in Schiller, especially through his lecture series ``On Schiller's life and drama'' during the winter of 1832-33. Follen was kicked out of Harvard in 1835, after he drafted an anti-slavery address to the people of the United States. His wife, Eliza, was a well-known anti-slavery fighter in her own right.
The famous former slave and leading spokesman for the rights of African Americans, Frederick Douglass, in his paper North Star, called Friedrich Schiller ``The Poet of Freedom'' and ``one of us.'' He published in North Star Schiller's poem ``Wallenstein,'' which includes the following passage:
For only can a great and noble cause,
Arouse humanity's profoundest nature.
In smaller spheres, the mind of man contracts,
But with a nobler purpose he grows greater.
And as this century is gravely ending,
And even what is real to fable turns,
When we behold huge forces locked in battle
And our portentous goal is hovering near,
And war is waged for man's most noble causes,
For domination and for liberty,
So now let art attempt to soar yet higher
Upon the shadow stage, indeed she must,
Lest she be put to shame by life's own drama.
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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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Eh, ideje, ideje... sve i da je tako bilo, te ideje su kružile među delom belaca, a samo oslobođenje je došlo kao kolateralna posledica građanskog rata, koji se nije vodio zbog humanističkih ideja.
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A pa dobro, uvek možemo da reteriramo na poziciju da ideje nisu bitne. Ja sam skloniji da verujem u onu Kejnzovu
The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back. I am sure that the power of vested interests is vastly exaggerated compared with the gradual encroachment of ideas. Not, indeed, immediately, but after a certain interval; for in the field of economic and political philosophy there are not many who are influenced by new theories after they are twenty-five or thirty years of age, so that the ideas which civil servants and politicians and even agitators apply to current events are not likely to be the newest. But, soon or late, it is ideas, not vested interests, which are dangerous for good or evil.
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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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William Murderface wrote:A pa dobro, uvek možemo da reteriramo na poziciju da ideje nisu bitne. Ja sam skloniji da verujem u onu Kejnzovu
The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both when they are right and when they are wrong, are more powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed the world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back. I am sure that the power of vested interests is vastly exaggerated compared with the gradual encroachment of ideas. Not, indeed, immediately, but after a certain interval; for in the field of economic and political philosophy there are not many who are influenced by new theories after they are twenty-five or thirty years of age, so that the ideas which civil servants and politicians and even agitators apply to current events are not likely to be the newest. But, soon or late, it is ideas, not vested interests, which are dangerous for good or evil.
Ne, nije to moja pozicija, nego je moja pozicija da te ideje nisu bitne u samom filmu. Mislim, šta ovde imamo - jedan stranac (neka je i evropljanin) se pojavljuje niotkuda i naloži Đanga na tu akciju koja se pretvori u krvavu vendetu koja pada na koga treba i koga ne treba. To zaista ima malo veze s humanisitčkim idejama, čak i ako se složimo da sam Waltzov lik polazi iz takvog ishodišta (ne sećam se više). Sklon sam da to mnogo više tumačim kao komentar savremenosti, nego same američke istorije. Tim pre što Tarantino ima tu neku "transatlantsku" notu u prethodnom filmu (koji je prvi deo te trilogije) - Brad Pitt i ekipa skidaju skalpove nacistima, dakle postoji upliv, plasiranje jednog samo američkog opšteg mesta na evropsku situaciju.
Meni Waltzov lik i njegov uticaj na Đanga više deluje kao parafraza nekog od afričkih proleća, na američki soft power, koji gledamo primenjen na Americi samoj.
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Pa jeste i komentar savremenosti, ali Valcova edukacija Djanga je prosto centralni momenat filma.
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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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Da, tako je, samo mi se čini da Waltz mnogo više predstavlja savremenu Ameriku i njen uticaj u starom svetu, nego nekakvu Evropu. Stvari su invertovane u filmu, takav je postupak.
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Zanimljiva ideja, ali mislim da nema dovoljno uporista u filmu za takvo tumacenje.
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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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ja mislim da reditelji mnogo jednostavnije razmišljaju nego njihovi tumači
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R. B. od ranije poznat policiji, zverski ubio autora (foto 18+).
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PPP dumre, rasprava decenije
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Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.