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    Kino klub 10. The Tenant (1976)

    Bluberi

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    Post by Bluberi Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:44 pm

    Ne znam ja te rabote oko titlova i tako to. Evo sa jutjuba.


    Last edited by Bluberi on Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Bluberi

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    Post by Bluberi Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:46 pm

    Ceo film.
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:47 pm

    Nisi morao ni to, samo plakat možeš da staviš. E, da i promeni da bude "Kino klub 10". Kino klub 10. The Tenant (1976) 1143415371
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:48 pm

    Ako je moguće, naravno. Kino klub 10. The Tenant (1976) 1143415371
    Bluberi

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    Post by Bluberi Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:49 pm

    Done.
    Ajant23

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    Post by Ajant23 Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:39 am

    Pročitah sad na imdb-u, pa prenosim ovde lep tekst jednog korisnika o filmu:

    "What right has my head to call itself me?"
    31 October 2007 | by Steffi_P (Ruritania) – See all my reviews

    After his classic film noir homage Chinatown Roman Polanski returned to the themes that had given him his greatest hits in the 60s with this creepy psychological horror which, like Repulsion and Rosemary's Baby, deals with the paranoia and claustrophobia generated by apartment living.

    Claustrophobic environments are the ones which Polanski is best at creating, and this has to be the most suffocating and confined picture he ever created. The emphasis on side walls and distant vanishing points is greater than ever, and even in the small number of exterior scenes the sky is rarely glimpsed. But The Tenant is not just confined spatially, but also in the intensity with which it focuses on its protagonist. Trelkovsky, played by Polanski himself is not only in every scene, he is in virtually every shot. When he is not on screen more often than not the camera becomes Trelkovsky's point of view. And of course almost everywhere he looks he sees his own reflection staring back at him in a mirror.

    I can't think of any film that is more about the internalisation and solitude of one character. Some psychological thrillers, like M or Peeping Tom, manipulate us into feeling sorry for the mentally ill protagonist. Others, like Psycho, attempt in-depth scientific analysis of his mental condition. The Tenant fits into neither of these categories – it simply immerses us completely inside Trelkovsky's experience without demanding we actually understand or appreciate what is going on inside his head. We feel his paranoia and obsession even though it is constantly revealed to us that they are irrational.

    Polanski was also a master of the slowly unfolding horror film. Often in his horrors there is an ambiguity as to whether there is actually anything sinister going on, but they are among the most effective at frightening audiences. Why? Precisely because they unfold so slowly and invest so much time in painstakingly setting up situations that they immerse the viewer in paranoia. A much later Polanski horror, The Ninth Gate is a bit of a mess plot-wise but at least it still manages to achieve that creeping sense of dread.

    This is a rare chance to see Polanski himself in a major role. His talent in front of the camera was as good as behind it, and he is absolutely perfect as the meek Trelkovsky. Another standout performance is that of the all-too-often overlooked Shelley Winters as the concierge. In actual fact it is rather a stellar cast, although many of the familiar faces look out of place in this strange, Gothic European movie. Also sadly many of the French actors in supporting roles are atrociously dubbed in the English language version.

    The Tenant is more polished and less pretentious than Repulsion, but it lacks the suspense and the character that make Rosemary's Baby so engrossing and entertaining. The Tenant is good, with no major flaws, and Polanski was really on top form as a director, but it's not among his most gripping works.
    Ferenz

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    Post by Ferenz Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:41 am

    Zbog nedostatka vremena odgledao pola. So far so good.
    Film naprosto "klizi".
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:14 pm

    Lepo je bilo posle tridesetak godina pogledati ponovo Stanara. Film svakako još uvek drži pažnju, naročito u drugom delu. Neke stvari (ljudi koji stoje u toaletu) su mi bile šokantne ranije, sad sam ih hladnije primio, ali to ide s godinama. Ono što je nekad bio apsurd, danas se prima gotovo kao realizam, to nije ništa novo, danas čak i Beketa možete da tretirate realistički.
    Film, naravno, jeste politički, mada ima i širu dimenziju. Ako gledamo samo tu politčku dimenziju, čini mi se da bi moglo da se kaže da gledamo (pazi sad timure) rađanje resentimana. To je ono što bi u današnjem vremenu svakako moglo da se kaže o Stanaru, mada je ideja Polanskog šira, opštija.
    Ključan rediteljski zahvat Polanskog i njegova modernost se bazira najviše na tome što je nemoguće odvojiti vizuru glavnog lika i neku filmsku realnost. One su isprepletane, pa.... savršeno. Taj postupak ne samo da stvara paranoju, već i govori metaforično sam za sebe o društvu i pojedincu, što je bila omiljena umereno leva tema u ta vremena, rekao bih.
    Polanski je umešno izgradio klaustrofobičnu atmosferu, što mu je trejdmark bio u to vreme. Film u ovom vremenu nije toliko prepoznat kao druga dva iz trilogije, ali to je verovatno zbog toga što, za razliku od njih, nije žanrovski film. Međutim zbog toga je i bilo lakše plasirati mnogo više komedije, što filmu daje potpuno originalan šarm.
    Obožavam filmove u kojima igra Izabela Ađani, to me tako podseća na prve hronike FEST-a, kad sam počeo da se ložim na filmove i da se tripujem da ih gledam ozbiljno i nešto tu da razmišljam.
    Ferenz

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    Post by Ferenz Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:05 pm

    Anđe'o wrote:
    Polanski je umešno izgradio klaustrofobičnu atmosferu, što mu je trejdmark bio u to vreme

    Da li je slučajno da se začetak te atmosfere dešava u crkvi?
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:06 pm

    Ne bih rekao.
    Ferenz

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    Post by Ferenz Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:13 pm

    I još jedno zapažanje za koje nisam siguran da li učitavam ili ne.
    Naime, u dva navrata Trelkovsky podseća različite sagovornike da je on francuski državljanin.
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:18 pm

    Tako je.

    Inače, sad si me podsetio - možda sve kreće od crkve, ali u zgradi u kojoj Trelkowski živi, toalet je crkva. Kino klub 10. The Tenant (1976) 1143415371
    Ferenz

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    Post by Ferenz Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:20 pm

    Ali i grobnica? Hint:hijeroglifi na zidovima toaleta.
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:25 pm

    Ali to nije mesto gde su mrtvi, nego mesto gde se dešava nekakav čudni nerazumljivi ritual. Trelkowskog zbunjuje tajna toga. Onda, kad sam tamo dođe, vidi sebe u zajedništvu s mrtvima ( prvo vidi sebe u sobi, pa onda vidi Simon Šul u toaletu) Posle krene da se oblači kao Simon Šul, prihvata mesto koje mu sugeriše okruženje. Prihvata da se žrtvuje, polako.
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:29 pm

    Mada, kad bolje razmislim, može da se čita i tako kao što ti kažeš.
    Ferenz

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    Post by Ferenz Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:38 pm

    No, vremenom ipak pokušava da se odupre tome, zar ne, ali čini se uzalud?
    Krug je zatvoren, mumificiran je i više nema povratka ( poslednja scena, uvijen u zavoje )

    Ja sad nabacujem neka pitanja koja su meni zanimljiva, a koja nisam video da su "obrađena" na internetu.
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:45 pm

    Ja nisam ništa čitao na internetu, osim ovog jednog reviewa sa imdba koji je ovde stavio Ajant.
    Međutim, čini mi se to pitanje koji se postavio zanimljivim - on se bori protiv onoga što mu društvo nameće - protiv svoje uloge (žrtve) u zgradi, pokušava na različite načine da "ne igra njigovu igru" - zato sam i napisao da se dešava "rađanje resentimana" koji nastaje iz želje da se ne učestvuje u društvu. Ima i ona scena kad ošamari bez razloga dečaka u parku - kako ti se to čini?
    Mislim, malopre sam pogledao film, tako da je ovo više neki brainstorming, nego što sam u nešto zaista siguran. Kino klub 10. The Tenant (1976) 1143415371
    Ferenz

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    Post by Ferenz Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:51 pm

    Kad sam pomenuo internet, mislio sam pre svega na citate iz filma poput: "At what precise moment does an individual stop being who he thinks he is? Cut off my arm. I say, 'Me "
    A to možda upravo i ilustruje resentiman koji pominješ.

    I ne samo da ne želi da igra njihovu igru, već je spreman i na samouništenje kako ne bi postao "jedan od njih", te dva puta pokušava samoubistvo skačući s prozora. Tolika je ta odlučnost!

    Vidiš, na tu scenu s dečakom sam zaboravio. Nemam "tumačenje" toga za sada.
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:56 pm

    Da, taj quote se uklapa u tezu o resentimanu. "Resentiman u apartmanu", kao podnaslov filma. Kino klub 10. The Tenant (1976) 1143415371
    Ferenz

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    Post by Ferenz Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:03 pm

    'ladno Kino klub 10. The Tenant (1976) 1143415371

    I za kraj: Tarkowsky "na vreme" biva upozoren da se treba suprotstaviti "komšiluku" je l',  od starne drugara s posla ili već... Jedan mu čak i praktično demonstrira kako to da izvede, no on ne shvata ozbiljno taj save tj. ne vidi problem.

    Ok, od mene toliko za sada.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:55 am

    Evo mojih prvi impresija, doklen su još vruće - meni se čini da ovo jeste vrlo politički film i da je zapravo vrlo aktuelan u kontekstu rasprave o Šarli Ebdou i frencuskom republikanizmu. Ne samo da, kao što je Ferenz već primetio, naš junak više puta ističe da je francuski državljanin (to no avail), već mu i vlasnik zgrade pripreti nakon onog obijanja stana, da ne ide u policiju, jer, ako nije Francuz, to neće na dobro da izađe. Takođe, i on, i druga komšinica koju izbacuju iz zgrade (madam Gaderian), nisu etnički Francuzi. A po imenu, rekao bih da je Simon Šule Jevrejka (mada vidimo da se sahrana održava u crkvi).

    Na zidu WC-a na kojem su ispisani hijeroglifi, nalaze se i svastika i srp i čekić. Ne znam kako to treba protumačiti, ali rekao bih da su hijeroglifi ovde simbol jezika koji naš junak ne razume, u koji nije iniciran. Svi ostali stanari deo su nekakvog kulta, u koji on nikako ne može da uđe.

    Ukratko, mislim da film uopšte nije psihološki horor kako ga često opisuju, već je fim o sećanju na Holokaust, i odnos Francuske prema tom sećanju. Jevreji su skočili sami, a ako se mnogo raspituješ, i ti ćeš.

    Inače, mislim da je film a bit of a mess, i pomalo raznizan.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:51 am

    Ma, film trpaju u horor zato što smo svi jednostavno hipnotisani Holivudom/industrijom, pa mislimo da je obavezno da postoje žanrovi. Onda kad ne možemo da utvrdimo tačno koji je žanr kažemo na primer "film je psihološki horor sa primesama trilera u duhu neo-noara (no pun)", ili neku sličnu glupost. Forma ovog filma je određena spirala koja ide na dole, kao stepenice zgrade u koju Trelkovski dolazi, ne izražava se kroz žanrovske klišee, to je ulazak u onu rupu na sudoperi, pa kroz nju na dole, ne samo vizuelno, nego sa svom živom dinamikom koju taj pad ima.
    Sigurno da stoji i ovo za Francuze, mada ne bih preterivao i sužavao film samo na to, tim pre što je Polanski čitav život bio stranac manje više u svim zemljama u kojima je živeo, a lagani pregled njegove biografije govori da je Francuska sigurno zemlja na koju ima najmanje razloga da bude kivan.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:53 pm

    Ma slažem se, mada je naglašavanje francuskog državljanstva i njegovog nefrancuskog etničkog identiteta, zaista upadljivo.

    Evo jednog zanimljivog, mada malo nametljivo postrukturalističkog, pogleda na film.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Somlói Galuska

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    Post by Somlói Galuska Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:00 pm

    Veoma zanimljiv review, mestimično nategnut doduše, pre svega u smislu tumačenja određenih radnji i motivacija koje imaju pojedini likovi u filmu. Ipak dopada mi se što pomera akcenat sa okruženja Trelkovskog, na Trelkovskog samog, što jeste dobro za razumevanje filma.
    Interesantno mi je da gledano kroz prizmu ovako postavljene tematike filma, nalazim da dosta od ovoga u kritici može da se primeni na Glazerov Under the Skin, čak sa mnogo više rezona, nego na Stanara.
    Evo još jedne interesantne recenzije, koja drugim, prostijim jezikom, bližim filmadžijskom negde ide na istu vodenicu. 

    Art thou not, fatal vision, sensible
    To feeling as to sight? or art thou but
    A dagger of the mind, a false creation
    Proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?
    Macbeth
    In The Tenant Roman Polanski explores again the psychic terrain of guilt, dread, paranoia, fears of sexual inadequacy and hysteria he made so familiar in Repulsion, Rosemary’s Baby, Macbeth, and Chinatown. Much of The Tenant bears residual traces of Repulsion‘s treatment of insanity and the creaky Gothic nightscape of Rosemary’s Baby. The film is chockfull of the attic-thumpings and disembodied sounds Polanski is so fond of rendering. A bit of lace drifting in the breeze becomes an omen of dread; sidelong glances from normal faces acquire an insidious grotesqueness. Is there in fact a conspiracy against M. Trelkovsky (Tchaikovsky? Porchovsky?—everyone seems to pronounce it differently), the new young tenant who takes over the apartment of Mlle. Schoul, the victim of a suicide leap from her window? Are the other tenants in league to drive T. into jumping as well? What about the burglary of his apartment? The human tooth he finds hidden in a hole in the wall plugged by cotton? The Egyptian postcard? The hieroglyphics in the toilet? Are they all elements of a vast conspiracy to drive him mad?
    It’s fair to reveal that in this film there is no conspiracy afoot, because the meaning of the film doesn’t hinge on that revelation. Unlike Rosemary’s Baby and Chinatown, where the point is to document the reality of conspiracy, the point of The Tenant is to illustrate how an unstable mind foments paranoia and creates imaginary persecution. T. believes that his neighbors have designed to turn him into another Simone Schoul, and the disintegration of his personality is signified by his adoption of her habits. He begins to drink chocolate instead of coffee, smoke her brand of cigarettes, and even to move in her old circle of friends. Eventually, after having dabbled with some makeup of Mlle. Sehoul’s which he finds in the apartment, T. dons an old dress from the wardrobe and a bright red wig he buys him self. He begins to spend his evenings sitting rigidly before the window with binoculars obsessively watching the other tenants in the toilet across the courtyard. (The Tenant is specifically reminiscent of Hitchcock’s Rear Window here; in other places it reminds us of Vertigo and Psycho.) Whether there is a plot or not becomes of secondary importance. Polanski’s strategy is to illustrate that the terrors hallucinated by the mind are every bit as powerful and destructive as the terrors of a so-called real world.
    Much of this is, again, familiar territory for Polanski, although the confusion of sexual roles is more pronounced here than anywhere else in his work. The slightly decadent and fetishistic, but innocent, bedtime games of Cul-de-sac have developed into the signs of a basic confusion concerning sexual identity. T.’s acquisition of feminine costume and habits speaks to a repressed and disturbing need. He is not attracted to women, in fact cannot perform sexually when Stella (Isabelle Adjani) takes him home. In this respect he is again the counterpart of Simone Schoul who, he is told, was never interested at all in men. As he is drawn more completely into the idea of becoming this woman, T. pauses to speculate about what defines him. If a man loses an arm, he wonders, does the arm or the remaining body define his selfhood? How much can a man lose, change, or give away and still remain “himself”? Or, to paraphrase the advertisers, does the cigarette make the man?
    The element completely new in this film, which raises interesting problems, is Polanski’s personal relationship to the project. Like Bergman’s Face to Face, The Tenant feels like a film contrived to work out a special psychological project, to exorcise a particular ghost. Can we ignore the fact that the character T., who is Polish and troubled about problems of violence, obsessiveness, dread and guilt, is played by Polanski himself, whose films have consistently dealt with those subjects? To what extent ought we use knowledge external to the film to discuss its implications?
    While it would be unwise to assert an incident-by-incident likeness between the lives of T. and Polanski, I think we can still suggest an identity between them. They share, to the extent that a real person can share something with a relatively two-dimensional figure of art, many of the same fears. T. is a theoretical alter self to Polanski, the man he “might have been” or “could be” under certain circumstances. In some ways they are exactly alike: how they walk, speak, look. Quite literally in this instance, Polanski is becoming his own films as T. becomes Simone Schoul. I can almost hear Polanski asking himself, “If a man makes a film, /how much of his identity is in that film? How many films must he make before his reality lies there and not in his mind?”
    In this sense, The Tenant marks a departure for Polanski. By inviting the examination of the film in the way he does, and by dramatizing his interior life in the film product itself, Polanski aligns himself with a very specific screen tradition whose most notorious exponent is Bergman. I think it is significant that Polanski’s cinematographer on the project was Sven Nykvist, one of Bergman’s regular collaborators. Though never literally in front of the camera (save for a couple jokey bits), Bergman is always giving us a tour of his “interior studios” and Nykvist’s camera is always more than ready to oblige.
    The problem with being this kind of personal, subjective director is that one must walk a fine line. He can create a personal vision, but he must also communicate it coherently by means of objective structures. The personal experience must never engulf its form, though the personal artist works where form is most fragile and experimental. Being a personal director, as they would tell us themselves, is a little like chasing waves on the seashore: one has to be wary of getting swamped.
    In spite of the one-man-show quality of the film, with Polanski obsessively at the center of all scenes, it retains a remarkable degree of distance. The Gothic machinery prevents it from being too unbearably personal, and the film has an eerie beauty of its own that is often hard to account for. And there is a good deal of very funny material: T. spilling garbage down the immaculate stairway, the masher watching T. and Stella grope each other in the theater. There is, as well, some material that is funny in a purely existential (that is, grim) way: T.’s response to the funeral sermon, or finding so unlikely a thing as a tooth in so unlikely a place as a hole in the wall behind the wardrobe.
    The only troubling aspect of this film is the abundance of self-parody characteristic of so much of Polanski’s work. One finds it hard to separate the unintentional cliché from· the intentional; I find it hard to locate a consistent body of beliefs and attitudes immune to the parody. At base, the film is cold and it reveals a troubled vision at the heart of Polanski’s work—a vision of a world of self-hatred and dread, a world in which there is no grace for anybody.
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:23 pm

    Mislim da ovaj prikaz previše lako presuđuje da je "sve u njegovoj glavi" - to jest da, za razliku od Rozmerine bebe. ovde imamo slučaj, ne zavere, već paranoje. Tačno je da nam film (u onoj sceni u ulazu) jasno razdvaja njegovu subjektivnu, od objektivne perspektive. Ali to ne znači da subjektivna perspektiva ne otkriva pravu istinu o društvu u kojem živi.

    Inače, još malo sam šrvljao po netu, pa naišao na još jedno zanimljivo zapažanje - Polanskijev Pianist  koji je eksplicitno o Holokaustu - zpravo je priča o čoveku zatvorenom u stanu, koji se plaši svojih komšija.


    _____
    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije

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