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Улични ходач wrote:

https://twitter.com/welt/status/1725832368269799654

Filipenko wrote:Samo da u poplavi dezurne tviteroznalice ukazem na jednu cinjenicu.

Izrael ne samo da je lagao za broj zrtava Hamasa u inicijalnom napadu, vec se ta cifra plasira kao da je rec o ubogim civilima. Zapravo natpolovican broj od 1200 stradalih u tom napadu pripada IDF-u, koji je potpuno legitimna meta. Dakle, Hamas je u inicijalnom napadu roknuo vojsku i civile u odnosu pola-pola, otprilike. A kakav je taj odnos u izraelskom genocidu, gledamo svakodnevno.

Filipenko wrote:Zapravo natpolovican broj od 1200 stradalih u tom napadu pripada IDF-u

The Israel Defense Forces has published the names of 372 soldiers, officers, and reservists — many of whom are local security officers — killed during the ongoing war with Palestinian terrorists since October 7, mostly on the border with the Gaza Strip and at least 52 during a ground offensive in the Hamas-run territory. Meanwhile, the Israel Police has listed 59 officers who were killed confronting the terrorists. (...)
The Shin Bet also named 10 members and veterans killed during the Hamas attack.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/these-are-biblical-lands-promised-to-us-jewish-settlers-in-west-bank-hope-gaza-conflict-will-help-their-cause

‘These are biblical lands promised to us’: Jewish settlers in West Bank hope Gaza conflict will help their cause
Human rights groups say settlers, empowered by the their right-wing government, are exploiting the Israel-Hamas war


Jason Burke in south Hebron hills, West Bank
Sat 18 Nov 2023 15.35 CET

Tamal Sikurel pats her belly, swollen with her sixth child, and smiles. “It is part of the war effort,” she says. Behind her is a school empty of pupils and homes empty of their former inhabitants. Beyond the buildings are dry hills sloping down to the Jordan valley.

“For thousands of generations we have always had to fight to justify our existence … I feel the power of that history every day. We have all the biblical rights, historical rights and moral right to keep ourselves safe here,” Sikurel said.

The 35-year-old and the other 500,000 Jewish settlers on the West Bank are now at the centre of a growing storm of violence and controversy as the war between Israel and Hamas moves into its seventh week. Some are motivated by religious or nationalistic reasons, and others by the cheaper cost of living. What was once seen as a pioneer lifestyle is now often very comfortable: some early settlements, once tiny rudimentary “wildcat” outposts, are now well established and wealthy, with security guards at the entrance and fences topped with cameras and barbed wire. Their population has surged 16% in the last five years.

Israeli human rights groups say settlers, already empowered by the most rightwing government in Israel’s history, have exploited the conflict to pursue their own agenda, intensifying efforts to force Palestinians out of their homes on the West Bank.

France on Thursday condemned a “policy of terror” and urged Israeli authorities to protect Palestinians from “violence which has the clear objective of forced displacement”. President Biden, a staunch ally of Israel, said last month the attacks by “extremist settlers” amounted to “pouring gasoline” on the already burning fires in the Middle East.

Such calls may explain a recent public relations effort by settlers to improve their image. Usually hostile to international journalists, Regavim, a pro-settler NGO, on Thursday drove a busload to the heart of the south Hebron hills while lecturing them about the conflict.

One stop on the tour was Zanuta, a village where the Guardian had previously reported that weeks of intense settler violence had forced its 150 Palestinian residents to make a reluctant collective decision to leave just two weeks ago. Armed settlers – some in reservist army uniforms, some covering their faces – had begun breaking into their homes at night, beating up adults, destroying and stealing belongings, and terrifying the children.

Naomi Kahn, a spokesperson for Regavim, denied any campaign to displace Palestinians, and claimed the former residents of Zanuta were “squatters” who were the “foot soldiers of Palestinian independence”, paid to live in the village by the EU. They had simply decided to “move on” when the payments stopped.

“Israel is powerless because of international pressure. The EU is making a situation that can only be resolved by force,” Kahn said.

Many of the settlers who spoke to the Observer said they believe they had been vindicated by the 7 October attacks launched by Hamas into southern Israel that killed 1,200 Israelis, mostly civilians in their homes or at a festival. Yochai Damari, the leader of the Har Hevron regional council, which administers settlements across a swath of the southern West Bank, claimed the 7 October attacks had given “Arabs courage and inspiration”.

“Most of all, there is a very strong feeling that this is the moment to destroy Hamas and destroy the same agenda among the Arabs here,” he told the Observer.

After an Israeli soldier was killed at a checkpoint on the West Bank’s route 60, Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel’s national security minister, said last week that Israel needed to deal with Hamas in the West Bank “exactly like we are dealing with Gaza”.

Gaza health authorities say at least 11,500 people have been confirmed killed in an Israeli bombardment and ground invasion – more than 4,700 of them children. At least a million have been displaced.

Many of the most hardline settlers say they want peace but are “on the frontline of the war”. Sikurel claimed that last month’s attacks were a “wake up call”, demonstrating “that we live on different planets”. “We in the western world want to live in faith and safety in the normal world, and time after time they are showing us that they do not think the Jews have a right to exist,” she said.

Such rhetoric is common across Israel after last month’s attacks but has long characterised the views of many settlers, leading to accusations of racism. “I have heard so much … about the violence of the settlers, and it is so weird. When I go out of my settlement, I am afraid. They work with us, we give them coffee, but I do not know if one of them will kill me,” said Orit Marketinger, a 24-year-old from the settlement of Otniel, whose father was shot dead in 2016 by a Palestinian.

“We want peace and we believe in the law. They believe in hate, and they kill us just because we are Jewish,” she said.

A total of 138 Israelis and 1,012 Palestinians have been killed on the West Bank from 2008 to September this year, according to the UN. Since 7 October, Israeli internal security services are aware of four cases in which the settlers shot and killed Palestinians, the local Haaretz newspaper has reported.

Just a kilometre or so to the south of Zanuta is the line where the West Bank – occupied by Israel after the 1967 war – ends and the internationally recognised territory of the Jewish state begins. For many settlers, this delimitation is aberrant. They refer to the West Bank as Judea and Samaria, two ancient Israelite kingdoms, terms also used administratively by the Israeli government.

“These are the biblical lands that were promised to the patriarchs thousands of years ago, and they walked on these lands, and now it is my generation that walks here,” said Damari.

The settlers deride the widely held view that their presence is not merely a major obstacle to any possible progress towards peace, however unlikely at this current moment of conflict, but is a source of much of the violence sweeping the occupied territories.

This year was already the deadliest in at least 15 years for West Bank residents, with some 200 Palestinians and 26 Israelis killed, according to UN data. Earlier this month, Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, blamed violence on “a tiny handful of people [among the settlers] who take the law into their own hands”.

Nathalie Sopinsky, originally from Delaware in the US, has lived in the settlement of Susiya for 16 years, and leads a first-response medical service for settlers. Sopinsky said she had been extremely busy with “normal injuries, terrorism injuries” but had made a “lifestyle choice” to live in the occupied West Bank. “There is no traffic, plenty of parking,” she said. “I go out to walk with my daughter in the morning. There are goats and shepherds. It’s all fresh and natural.”

Likud Party: Original Party Platform (1977)

The Right of the Jewish People to the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel)

a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria [= West Bank] will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.

b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel and frustrates any prospect of peace.

(...)

The Mongol army conquered hundreds of cities and villages and killed millions of people. One estimate is that about 11% of the world's population was killed either during or immediately after the Mongol invasions, around 37.75–60 million people in Eurasia.[8] These events are regarded as some of the deadliest acts of mass killing in human history.

Those who agreed to pay the Mongols tribute were spared invasion and left relatively independent.

Јанош Винету wrote:Произвољношћу и дивљаштвом.

Чак ни Римљани нити Монголи нису овако радили.

Уколико се град мирно преда и потчини Монголској империји, становништву не би фалила длака са главе. Уколико пак убију Монгола или пруже оружани отпор, одмазда је била сразмерна и зависила је од количине отпора коју су пружали.
Дакле никада превентивно ратовање и напад, увек прво дипломатија и слање изасланика тј. амбасадора. Тако нешто су радили и Римљани. Де јуре никад нису објавили рат против супарника него су увек имали ”специјалне војне операције” или је против њих објављен рат.
Нису затрли ни једну културу нити народ, већ су их инкорпорирали у своју империју а често и примили њихове обичаје, веру и културу ако би сматрали да су боље организовани и примеренији.

This much is clear: A two-state solution is the only way to ensure the long-term security of both the Israeli and Palestinian people. Though right now it may seem like that future has never been further away, this crisis has made it more imperative than ever. (...)
As we strive for peace, Gaza and the West Bank should be reunited under a single governance structure, ultimately under a revitalized Palestinian Authority, as we all work toward a two-state solution. I have been emphatic with Israel’s leaders that extremist violence against Palestinians in the West Bank must stop and that those committing the violence must be held accountable. The United States is prepared to take our own steps, including issuing visa bans against extremists attacking civilians in the West Bank.

Filipenko wrote:Samo da podsetim da cak i kada su se u biblijskim vremenima doseljavali tu isto su izmasakrirali neke Filistince, sto me cak i zvucno podseca na Palestince. Doktrinu su javno upisali u bibliju, satri svakog coveka, zenu, dete i stoku. Dakle, cak i tada je tu bilo starosedelaca.

Zapravo, kada se prisetim njihovih "ropstava", od egipatskog, preko asirskog i vavilonskog, do rimskog, svaki put su pravili ozbiljna sranja i masakrirali pogranicno stanovnistvo tih imperija pre nego sto im je nanosena grozna (ne)pravda. Sto je najsmesnije, niko bas i nije bio narocito rad da ih iseljava odatle i naseljava se u tu pustinju daleko od vecih recnih tokova.