Gejmerstina
- Guest
- Post n°1
Re: Gejmerstina
prelistao Svet Kompjutera da pročitam recenzije igrica...sačuvaj i sakloni šta tamo ima. Neki slaboumnik ima kolumnu, prostački "duhovitu", u kojoj je najogavnije izvredjao feministkinje, ono, nedojebane babe, bljuv bljuv, grok, ja sam mačo nerd.
- Posts : 6735
Join date : 2012-02-11
- Post n°2
Re: Gejmerstina
Greshni Vasilije wrote:prelistao Svet Kompjutera da pročitam recenzije igrica...sačuvaj i sakloni šta tamo ima. Neki slaboumnik ima kolumnu, prostački "duhovitu", u kojoj je najogavnije izvredjao feministkinje, ono, nedojebane babe, bljuv bljuv, grok, ja sam mačo nerd.
Nelogican mi je i nekako izvestacen taj sukob izmedju "nerdova" i feministkinja, posto bi oni trebalo da su prirodni saveznici protiv macho muskaraca i patrijarhalnog konformizma.
_____
"Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.
My Moon Che Gavara.
- Posts : 82754
Join date : 2012-06-10
- Post n°3
Re: Gejmerstina
Bojim se da u gejmerskoj podkulturi, ili barem nekim njenim delovima cveta vrlo jaka mizoginija, pa i mačizam.
Death to the Gamer
by Ian Williams
Of all the strands of geek culture, gamers have always seemed to be the group most likely to explode in anger at challenges to their subculture. Like all geek culture, that culture is little more than the consumption of media as a means of identity formation.
Gaming media, of course, can be particularly noxious, flirting with overt misogyny and largely created by a corporate culture resistant to any change that could jeopardize profit.
The gamer kettle has finally boiled over. Over the past two weeks, the immediacy and tangibility of the danger of geek culture’s toxic identity politics have crossed from potential to real, with threats of violence toward women and elaborate conspiracy theories being concocted to explain the small shifts toward inclusiveness in the gamer clubhouse.
A truncated version of the controversy: First, an independent game developer named Zoe Quinn had salacious details of her personal life posted online by a jilted ex-boyfriend. As it turns out, some of her relationships were with industry journalists, including one at a major outlet. After the news broke, the gamer community took a sudden interest in journalistic ethics, demanding people be fired and harassing Quinn with an unrelenting viciousness.
Second, Anita Sarkeesian, a creator of videos offering feminist critiques of common video game tropes, was harassed out of her home after her latest offering, a thirty-minute video in which she gives examples of violence against women serving as a backdrop in video game plotlines, regardless of genre. Sarkeesian has been dealing with this sort of harassment from gamers ever since she started a Kickstarter to fund her video series.
The backlash in the wake of this has been swift and loud, with some very good writing declaring the death of gamers as an identity. The idea is that gamers, as a slice of geek culture, are reacting so harshly because they think they’re dying. This, in turn, allows for a new definition of gamer to emerge, one that is more inclusive and shorn of it odious elements.
There are a few small issues with this analysis. One is the notion that the slights imagined by gamers are just that: imaginary. But they aren’t, and gamers must be taken at face value when they claim to feel threatened. Gamer culture is under threat, though the notion that it’s dead or dying is both overstated and premature.
When your identity has been manufactured by corporations urging you to consume certain things in prescribed ways, then any change, no matter how small, is an existential threat. When women challenge decades of almost exclusively male fantasies of sex and power, this alters the content the gamer consumes. And when that content is altered, gamer identity itself under threat. The vitriol isn’t contrived or artificially manufactured. It has a source.
Which brings me to the second problem. There are cries from some quarters that this is not representative of gamer culture, that the word “gamer” should be reclaimed as something good. But it was never good. It was never worth saving.
Gamer identity is tainted, root and branch, by its embrace of consumption as a way of life. If gamers suddenly became completely inclusive, if all of the threats and stamping of feet went away and the doors were flung open, conspicuous consumption would still be the essential core of their identity. The mythical gamer who does not exist to consume is not a gamer. A raisin is not a grape, and no amount of rehydration will turn it into one.
One of the tells is the aforementioned silence in the face of decades of questionable coziness between games journalism and corporations. Up until recently, there was no independent games press. The entire apparatus was quite openly an arm of the industry’s PR machine, focused exclusively on reviews. Until the past few years, there was no labor reporting of note. Industry conventions, with their unveiling of new products, are meant to impress and dazzle more than inform, and most of the press is still only too happy to regurgitate press releases.
With games journalism of the recent past displaying the crassest corporate obeisance imaginable, it’s no accident that the present controversy was kicked off by a small press developer and foreshadowed by a woman deigning to give the most recent Grand Theft Auto a positive review, while also questioning its treatment of women. It’s not just the challenge to rote misogyny that has gamers up in arms, but even the smallest challenges to the assembly line spoon-feeding of retrograde culture to the consumer.
The corporations who make games are quite willing to make their content more inclusive (indeed, that they’ve begun to do so is the impetus for the current fury) without altering the basic DNA of a gamer.
The obvious reason is sales. Games make enormous amounts of money through their primary consumers, who each buy dozens of games a year. The gamer and his mass purchases are necessary to keep games with obscenely bloated budgets profitable.
But the industry also has a deeply exploitative relationship with labor.
Gaming companies are a place where the constant, deafening appeals to love and passion are predicated on its consumers being its employees. Fans make good workers because they’re living the dream. The abuses in the industry rely on this blurring between dedicated consumer and overworked employee. In fact, it’s the only way for the industry to survive in its current form. Gamers will never truly die; the industry will have no workers willing to put up with the deplorable conditions if they do.
As traditional industries begin to run out of stuff to sell, you can watch them try to tap into this deep vein of manufactured identity in real time. It’s present in snacks marketed as “Gamer Grub” and in car ads featuring the two actors who have portrayed Star Trek’s Mr. Spock.
These are crude and hamfisted, but make no mistake: the depth of misplaced passion on display in these two recent, awful examples of geek culture at its worst is something that every corporation wants in on. It may be ugly, but it also makes big money.
All of this comes with the usual caveats. It’s all right to enjoy video games. I love a lot of video games. I suspect that I’ll love new ones in the years to come. But to define oneself by media consumption is not just unhealthy, it’s vacuous. To do so is to go beyond the necessary distractions from the real world’s tedium and travails. It’s a demand for a Huxley-esque perpetual childhood.
Gamers won’t die because there will always be, in capitalism, people who define themselves by what they buy. When their imaginary identity politics are challenged, they’ll lash out, angrily, with as much vitriol as they can muster.
Their opprobrium points to the silver lining in all of this, small as it is. The open savagery of the gamers’ revolt, coupled with their manifest hypocrisy — embodied by their collective ease with the web of games press, advertising, and corporate access — has laid bare the inherent problems with this mode of identification.
The ties between consumption and identity are being examined in more and more mainstream outlets. Questioning leads to answers, answers can lead to rejection of a rotten status quo. With any hope, the burgeoning business of corporate identity creation, in the gaming industry and elsewhere, can be replaced by real bonds of solidarity and empowerment.
_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
- Posts : 6735
Join date : 2012-02-11
- Post n°4
Re: Gejmerstina
Citao sam taj tekst i mislim da je nacelno tacan, osim u jednom: "gejmeri" nisu isto sto i gikovi (ni nerdovi), odnosno prestali su to da budu kada se igranje toliko omasovilo da je postalo norma. Gejmeri su sada sarenolika skupina, skoro koliko i opsta populacija, a ovi koji imaju problem sa feministinjama su polupismeni klinci koji igraju onlajn pucacine, sto bas i ne odgovara definiciji gikova.
_____
"Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.
My Moon Che Gavara.
- Guest
- Post n°5
Re: Gejmerstina
Misim da sam upotrebio pogrešan termin i da je Radagast mnogo bliži meti.
- Posts : 82754
Join date : 2012-06-10
- Post n°6
Re: Gejmerstina
Da, slažem se.
_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
- Posts : 37659
Join date : 2014-10-27
- Post n°7
Re: Gejmerstina
uh kako se uzme. jos se secam kako je rpgpundit (inace konsultant za 5e D&D i blogerski mini selebriti u rpg svetu) tvrdio da su deca na utoji stradala zato sto ih savremeno, post-moderno, humanisticko obrazovanje nije spremilo za to da se bace i zubima zakolju brejvika u nekoj milijusovskoj fantaziji tipa red dawn.
vaso, kako se vika taj lik iz sk? onaj lik sto ima kolumnu satro redovnu?
vaso, kako se vika taj lik iz sk? onaj lik sto ima kolumnu satro redovnu?
- Posts : 22555
Join date : 2014-12-01
- Post n°8
Re: Gejmerstina
Pretpostavljam da aludirate na Miodraga Kuzmanovića.
Inače, batalite te priče o gejming medijima kojima se u poslednje vreme puni mejnstrim štampa. Idioti pronalaze nove razloge za postojanje u novim krstaškim ratovima za prava virtuelnih žena koje se maltretiraju u igricama...Kapiram da je mnogim nevladinim organizacijama diljem SŠA ponestalo tema zarad opravdanja sopstvenog postojanja, a ne valja se fajtati tamo gde problema zaista ima. Gejming je laka meta.
Inače, batalite te priče o gejming medijima kojima se u poslednje vreme puni mejnstrim štampa. Idioti pronalaze nove razloge za postojanje u novim krstaškim ratovima za prava virtuelnih žena koje se maltretiraju u igricama...Kapiram da je mnogim nevladinim organizacijama diljem SŠA ponestalo tema zarad opravdanja sopstvenog postojanja, a ne valja se fajtati tamo gde problema zaista ima. Gejming je laka meta.
- Posts : 37659
Join date : 2014-10-27
- Post n°9
Re: Gejmerstina
ne aludiram. ne znam kako se zove ali sam mu citao par onako nabrijanih kolumni. prostakluk sto kaze vasa ali ja mu nisam publika.
sto se gejmergejta tice to je skandal mimo price o virtuelnim zenama. nedavno je zakukala i felicia day posto su je neki kreteni stalkovali.
ne znam kako je u video igrama ali u svetu stripa neke stvari tek sada izlaze na videlo i dobro je sto se o tome prica. :cough: brian wood :cough:
sto se gejmergejta tice to je skandal mimo price o virtuelnim zenama. nedavno je zakukala i felicia day posto su je neki kreteni stalkovali.
ne znam kako je u video igrama ali u svetu stripa neke stvari tek sada izlaze na videlo i dobro je sto se o tome prica. :cough: brian wood :cough:
_____
And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
- Guest
- Post n°10
Re: Gejmerstina
Kuzmanović, da. Ma o čemu ti pričaš, pročitao sam kolumnu i zgrozio se tupošću, ne znam ništa o tom odijumu virtuelnih žena, NVO iz SŠA i tako dalje :lol:Filipenko wrote:Pretpostavljam da aludirate na Miodraga Kuzmanovića.
Inače, batalite te priče o gejming medijima kojima se u poslednje vreme puni mejnstrim štampa. Idioti pronalaze nove razloge za postojanje u novim krstaškim ratovima za prava virtuelnih žena koje se maltretiraju u igricama...Kapiram da je mnogim nevladinim organizacijama diljem SŠA ponestalo tema zarad opravdanja sopstvenog postojanja, a ne valja se fajtati tamo gde problema zaista ima. Gejming je laka meta.
- Posts : 82754
Join date : 2012-06-10
- Post n°11
Re: Gejmerstina
Daj, Filipe, šta pričaš to?
Nema nikakvih NVO, nego jedna devojka, za svoj račun skupljala pare preko kickstartera za analizu ženskih likova u video igrama, i nakon toga stoka počela da joj preti silovanjem i smrću.
Nema nikakvih NVO, nego jedna devojka, za svoj račun skupljala pare preko kickstartera za analizu ženskih likova u video igrama, i nakon toga stoka počela da joj preti silovanjem i smrću.
_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
- Posts : 22555
Join date : 2014-12-01
- Post n°12
Re: Gejmerstina
Sve su to idiotizmi. Ja pogrešno bacim magiju u Doti i dobijem te iste pretnje, plus svašta drugo. Ne kapiram te stvari. Svako, kada hoće da te uvredi, gađa ono gde te najviše boli. Ako vidi da si žensko, pričaće ti to, ako vidi da si npr. Rus pljuju te jer si glupi Rus, ukoliko vide da ti je komp sporiji, psuju te jer si siromašan i tvrde da su ti roditelji narkići. To što su se SŠA mejnstrim mediji zgranuli nad nečim što je jednostavno tako jer se uklapa u njihove uređivačke politike, to je njihov problem, a ko se upeca, upecao se. Mislim, vaspitavanje internet gejmera, zaista zvuči kao veliki cilj.
Kuzminu kolumnu nisam pročitao, da se razumemo. A mogao bih sada u stilu gejmera svašta da kažem Vasi što se o igrama informiše iz SK...
Kuzminu kolumnu nisam pročitao, da se razumemo. A mogao bih sada u stilu gejmera svašta da kažem Vasi što se o igrama informiše iz SK...
- Posts : 37659
Join date : 2014-10-27
- Post n°13
Re: Gejmerstina
ne znam. objavljivanje privatnih podataka devojaka je zaista onako odvratno.
_____
And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
- Posts : 22555
Join date : 2014-12-01
- Post n°14
Re: Gejmerstina
Jeste, i ne spada u gejming problematiku pa da sada to predstavlja gejmersgejt kao što pokušava da se predstavi, odnosno problem igranja i igrača širom sveta.
- Posts : 37659
Join date : 2014-10-27
- Post n°15
Re: Gejmerstina
pa od toga je pocelo. a i ne vidim zasto bi neko nekome pretio smrcu i silovanjem zbog feministicke analize narativa video igara.
_____
And Will's father stood up, stuffed his pipe with tobacco, rummaged his pockets for matches, brought out a battered harmonica, a penknife, a cigarette lighter that wouldn't work, and a memo pad he had always meant to write some great thoughts down on but never got around to, and lined up these weapons for a pygmy war that could be lost before it even started
- Posts : 82754
Join date : 2012-06-10
- Post n°16
Re: Gejmerstina
Ne razumem čemu relativizacija. Nije ona igrala s njima, pa se psovala. Žena im se zamerila jer je tražila 6000 dolara na kickstarteru da snimi vlog o ženskim likovima u video igricama. To je sve. I na to su usledili meseci intenzivnog harramenta, pretnji, obaranja sajtova, itd.
_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
- Posts : 82754
Join date : 2012-06-10
- Post n°17
Re: Gejmerstina
Filipenko wrote:Jeste, i ne spada u gejming problematiku pa da sada to predstavlja gejmersgejt kao što pokušava da se predstavi, odnosno problem igranja i igrača širom sveta.
Stvarno ne razumem šta pokušavaš da kažeš. Da li postoji masovan i jeziv gejmerski backlash prema ženama koje nisu nikome učinile ništa nažao? Postoji.
I šta sad tu "pokušava da se predstavi"?
_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
- Posts : 22555
Join date : 2014-12-01
- Post n°18
Re: Gejmerstina
Pokušava se predstaviti da je to problem cele igračke zajednice i da su gejmeri generalno takvi, što nema veze sa mozgom.
Uopšte ne kapiram šta je odgovor na to, da se svi gejmeri deklarišu da nisu skloni mizoginiji? Ko preti i obara sajtove podleže odgovornosti za to i gotovo. Ali ne, cilj je da se kompletna zajednica pokaže gomilom ludaka i da je to veliki problem cele gejmerske populacije.
Uopšte ne kapiram šta je odgovor na to, da se svi gejmeri deklarišu da nisu skloni mizoginiji? Ko preti i obara sajtove podleže odgovornosti za to i gotovo. Ali ne, cilj je da se kompletna zajednica pokaže gomilom ludaka i da je to veliki problem cele gejmerske populacije.
- Posts : 6735
Join date : 2012-02-11
- Post n°19
Re: Gejmerstina
timur chevket wrote:pa od toga je pocelo. a i ne vidim zasto bi neko nekome pretio smrcu i silovanjem zbog feministicke analize narativa video igara.
Nije, pocelo je sa jednom drugom, a ta je posle stradala kao kolateralna steta kad se rasprava zahuktala te je par virtuelnih zajednica krenulo u pohod protiv feminista.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy
Ali poenta naravno stoji.
_____
"Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.
My Moon Che Gavara.
- Posts : 82754
Join date : 2012-06-10
- Post n°20
Re: Gejmerstina
Filipenko wrote:Pokušava se predstaviti da je to problem cele igračke zajednice i da su gejmeri generalno takvi, što nema veze sa mozgom.
Uopšte ne kapiram šta je odgovor na to, da se svi gejmeri deklarišu da nisu skloni mizoginiji? Ko preti i obara sajtove podleže odgovornosti za to i gotovo. Ali ne, cilj je da se kompletna zajednica pokaže gomilom ludaka i da je to veliki problem cele gejmerske populacije.
Ko pokušava? Pa i same ove devojke su gejmerke.
Ne znam šta te uhvatilo.
_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."
Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
- Posts : 6735
Join date : 2012-02-11
- Post n°21
Re: Gejmerstina
Filipenko wrote:Pokušava se predstaviti da je to problem cele igračke zajednice i da su gejmeri generalno takvi, što nema veze sa mozgom.
Te budale ne predstavljaju igracku zajednicu (u kojoj je inace oko 40% zena), ali je fora u tome sto su organizovani i radikalizovani, pa su zahvaljujuci tome uspeli da se nametnu, uz neblagonaklonu pomoc medija, kao glasnogovornici te zajednice.
_____
"Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.
My Moon Che Gavara.
- Posts : 6735
Join date : 2012-02-11
- Post n°22
Re: Gejmerstina
William Murderface wrote:
Ko pokušava?
Death to the Gamer
...
Which brings me to the second problem. There are cries from some quarters that this is not representative of gamer culture, that the word “gamer” should be reclaimed as something good. But it was never good. It was never worth saving.
Gamer identity is tainted, root and branch, by its embrace of consumption as a way of life.
Inace, mislim da autor gresi, jer ne postoje "gamer identity" i "gamer culture" koje bi trebalo napadati ili braniti. Kompjuterske igre su zanrovski i kvalitativno raznovrsne (skoro) koliko i knjizevnost i kinematografija. Postojanje na njima zasnovanog identiteta verovatno je koliko i postojanje identiteta zajednickog za fanove Drajva i Transformersa.
_____
"Ne morate krenuti odavde da biste dosli tamo. Moguce je krenuti odavde i vratiti se ponovo tu, ali preko onoga tamo."
Aca Seltik, Sabrana razmisljanja o topologiji, tom cetvrti.
My Moon Che Gavara.
- Posts : 22555
Join date : 2014-12-01
- Post n°23
Re: Gejmerstina
William Murderface wrote:Filipenko wrote:Pokušava se predstaviti da je to problem cele igračke zajednice i da su gejmeri generalno takvi, što nema veze sa mozgom.
Uopšte ne kapiram šta je odgovor na to, da se svi gejmeri deklarišu da nisu skloni mizoginiji? Ko preti i obara sajtove podleže odgovornosti za to i gotovo. Ali ne, cilj je da se kompletna zajednica pokaže gomilom ludaka i da je to veliki problem cele gejmerske populacije.
Ko pokušava? Pa i same ove devojke su gejmerke.
Ne znam šta te uhvatilo.
Radagast je u međuvremenu odgovorio, a i ja sam to nagovestio u uvodnim postovima. U toku je velika kampanja oko toga i svaki idiotski mejnstrim sajt/medij u SŠA ima potrebu da unese reč-dve osude "gejmerske populacije". Nisam naravno mislio da vi sa foruma pokušavate nešto, već da je to jedna vrsta priče koja je veštački nametnuta sa prilično nategnutim opravdanjima, uz svu osudu onoga što se desilo đevojkama đejmerima.
- Posts : 6159
Join date : 2014-11-04
- Post n°25
Re: Gejmerstina
Every woman I know in the industry is scared