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    Rat u Ukrajini

    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:20 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:
    Jack Palance wrote:
    Nije mi jasno zbog čega cvile? To nije ofanzivno oružje, neće time gađati Rusiju.
    Cvile jer su cim je pocela ova spec operacija lepo rekli svima da im se sklone sa puta inace ce da bude tumbanje kakvo nikad nije bilo. Taj predlog nije uvazen i sada im nije pravo sto ih svet nije ispostovao.

    Ne, Džek pita zbog čega cvile proputinovska govna iz Kaubojevog posta. Tvoj odgovor bi bio tačan da je upitao zašto cvili (i istovremeno pizdi i prijeti) ruski državni i vojni vrh.


    Last edited by fikret selimbašić on Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Međuopštinski pustolov.

    Kijevljani, Kijevljani, paganski skupe. Da niste Mihajlika izdali, nikad Tatari Kijev ne bi zauzeli.

    A onda, kad mjehne Raspotočje, onda je jebeno.
    fikret selimbašić

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    Post by fikret selimbašić Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:21 pm

    Notxor wrote:
    fikret selimbašić wrote:
    Otežava i odlaže ruski izlazak na Dunav.

    Podseti me... jel' bila ovde vest o ruskoj kupovini tankera? Otprilike su kupili sve što je bilo na prodaju, što za transport, što za deponovanje nafte da ne bi morali da zatvaraju bušotine.
    Inače, koliko vidim, pod ruskom zastavom vozi se na liniji Rusija - Turska kao da je džaba.

    Ne znam da li ovde, tamo ili na nekom trećem mjestu ali jeste bila vijest o kupovini tankera.


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    Međuopštinski pustolov.

    Kijevljani, Kijevljani, paganski skupe. Da niste Mihajlika izdali, nikad Tatari Kijev ne bi zauzeli.

    A onda, kad mjehne Raspotočje, onda je jebeno.
    Cowboy

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    Post by Cowboy Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:52 pm

    Jack Palance wrote:
    Cowboy wrote:

    Jedino sto me tesi u ovom paklu su ova srpska (i ostala) proputinovska govna koja pizde i cvile
    Nije mi jasno zbog čega cvile? To nije ofanzivno oružje, neće time gađati Rusiju.


    Ma nisam mislio na konkretnu stvar vec na sam tok tzv. Specijalne Operacije.


    Cekaju jadni putinofili decenijama da Rusija stavi sva ona zapadnjacka govna tamo gde pripadaju - i odma ćorak, trt, ni Informer ne pomaže. Secam se kada je pocelo koliko je bilo tihe euforije po forumima, mrezama, komentarima na portalima, tacno vidis da se nasmejao brk i digao kurčić svakom usranom putinofilcicu na prve bombe koje su bačene. Vučićević je garant svršavao dok smišljao naslov UKRAJINA NAPALA RUSIJU, Marić trlja ruke, ekipa ispred drakstora u ekstazi.

    A onda umesto klimaksa antiklimaks i nikada jača želja da se racionalizuje i opravda svaki neuspeh putinovih nacosha. Kakvih sam se razloga za neuspeh načitao, čista kreativa. Ni majka rodjeno dete ne bi tako branila kako usrani putinofil brani kepeca.

    Eto to mi leže kao melem na srce, sto su sva govna ujedinjena u zbunjenosti i žalosti jer njihov firer mesecima sve promasuje.

    To ide dotle da im ni nuklearne bombe bacene po Evropi ne bi smetale. Boles'
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:01 am

    Meni je omiljeni pro-Putin momenat bio kad “jedan čo’ek na jednome mjestu ne mogu ti reći na kojem, odmah bi se śetio” par dana pred invaziju veli “ostaje nam da se nadamo da ima normalnih medju američkim generalima”.


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Erős Pista

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    Post by Erős Pista Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:21 am

    Pazi, u principu se u tim krugovima smatra da je duznost "kolektivnog Zapada" da bude normalan, razuman, principijelan i moralan, docim ruska strana nema tih obaveza posto ih generalni zabole za njih i nikad se nisu ni pravili da ih one zanimaju, a ne k'o ovi hipokriti.


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    "Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

    Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:55 am

    https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/zlyftg/pov_of_russian_tank_in_city_fighting/


    Prizor iz Bahmuta. Pandemonijum.


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    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:57 am

    @Pišta

    Tako je. Zapad mora bonton viljuškom boc, a Rus može rukama da jede i da prdi za stolom taka mu priroda, kamo razumevanje za drugačijeg od sebe o licemerni Zapade?


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    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:02 am

    kondo

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    Post by kondo Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:06 am

    Летећи Полип wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/zlyftg/pov_of_russian_tank_in_city_fighting/


    Prizor iz Bahmuta. Pandemonijum.


    kamo javelini ili barem korneti? ovaj ko dete kad izađe u pesak da se igra...


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    #FreeFacu

    Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.
    Cowboy

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    Post by Cowboy Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:35 pm

    Vilmos Tehenészfiú wrote:Meni je omiljeni pro-Putin momenat bio kad “jedan čo’ek na jednome mjestu ne mogu ti reći na kojem, odmah bi se śetio” par dana pred invaziju veli “ostaje nam da se nadamo da ima normalnih medju američkim generalima”.

    Pretpostavljam da nije na Stormfrontu pisao nego na nekom civilizovanijem mestu Rat u Ukrajini - Page 30 1399639816

    Realno to je taj lom mozga koji zivimo - ako rus krene na Ukrajinu Zapad je kriv, ako ekskalira opet je Zapad kriv... a Rus je jednostavno lud i to je tako.

    Ako Rus napadne Ukrajinu i srusi do temelja grad velicine Niša, NATO je kriv. Ako ubija decu bombama po Kijevu iz ciste osvete, Amer kriv. Ako Putin pocne da vadi atomske bombe iz podruma, ko je kriv - NATO. Ne mozes tu "logiku" ubiti logikom nikako. Ne secam se da je iko normalan u Srbiji onomad (kada je Amer ganjao Sadama i izmisljao mu nuklearni program) ovde vukljao Bushove slike uz ikone po ulicama i drao se kako su Rusi krivi sto je NATO napao Irak.

    Zivimo u ludnici jbg.
    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:26 pm

    rumbeando

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    Post by rumbeando Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:05 pm

    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:39 pm

    Kačim tekst ne zato što je u celini važan nego zato što nagoveštava (iz anonimnih ruskih vojnih izvora) jedan moguć tip ruskih ofanzivnih akcija (ukoliko su za to uopšte sposobni) koje se zapravo uklapaju u dugoročni rat i strategiju odustajanja od okupacije cele ili većine zemlje i svrgavanja vlasti (dakle računa se sa budućim ostatkom Ukrajine kao dugoročnim neprijateljem). Uklapaju se i u ovo što Ukrajinci sada govore (mogući novi napad ka Kijevu). 
    A koncept je na liniji rejderskih provala i sjebavanja važne infrastrukture usput koji treba da uspostave novu široku zonu razdvajanja, bez želje da se drži teritorija i da se pridobijaju hearts and minds lokalaca, dakle jeza:

    Caveat: načitao sam se xyz ruskih "planova" o svemu i svačemu pa i ovo uzimam sa kutlačom soli, no eto.

    http://johnhelmer.net/ukraine-armistice-how-the-udz-of-2023-will-separate-the-armies-like-the-korean-dmz-of-1953/

    ...
    The Kherson manoeuvre, announced  by Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and General Sergei Surovikin on November 9; the electric war campaign  which has followed*; and the cutoff of troops, arms and supplies by train from Kiev to the eastern front, first announced by the Russian Defense Ministry on November 24,  foreshadow how the military are preparing to establish the Ukrainian Demilitarized Zone (UDZ), its depth to the west of the Dnieper River, and the cities to be included in Russian-controlled territory.

    This is a future to be established by the Russian General Staff, negotiated and signed by military officers of the NATO-controlled commands in Kiev and Lvov. The outcome is an end to  hostilities with an armistice that is not a peace treaty.

    The model is the armistice of Panmunjom of July 27, 1953, which ended the Korean War. The terms of the armistice took two years to negotiate by US, Korean and Chinese officers. The Korean demilitarized zone (DMZ) which was the outcome was four kilometres in depth. The Ukrainian demilitarized zone (UDZ) will be up to one hundred kilometres in depth, depending on the range of the US and NATO missile and artillery weapons deployed on the Kiev side of the Dnieper.  On the ground inside the UDZ there may be no electricity, no people, nothing except for the means to monitor and enforce the terms of the armistice.
    ...
    One Moscow source: “I cannot see Russians risking massive armoured movements or repeating their March manoeuvres. I believe the General Staff will wage the electricity war and put pressure on Kiev and on Europe while continuing a slow, inch-by-inch movement in Donbass. General Patience is more important than General Winter. Those two are on a par with General Iskander taking out electric substations and transport corridors. Putin will only come under pressure if he puts himself under pressure to take territory and takes thousands of casualties in the process. He does not want this. The General Staff does not want this. They have made this explicitly clear. So they have come up with new forms of warfare. Just how new these are hasn’t dawned yet in Kiev or Washington or Brussels.”

    This is not positional warfare by Russian forces, all sources agree. But the outcome of highly mobile deployments (known as РЕЙД – “reyd” – in Russian military terminology) will be geographical.

    The РЕЙД will consist of several heavy armoured spearheads with the objective of occupying and destroying enemy logistical hubs and transportation routes as well as any infrastructure. This will include whatever remains of the Ukrainian electrical grid in the target zone. Once the destruction of these targets has been completed, the remnants of the infrastructure will be mined, and the area planted with sensing devices. The armies will then begin a rapid, staged withdrawal behind Russian lines where the process of fortification and entrenchment has already begun.”

    “Civilians and disarmed Ukrainian troops – except for the Ukro-Nazi units — will be allotted one or two corridors through which they will be permitted to leave the zone. They’d better not dawdle.”

    The sources agree there will be a new military demarcation line before the thaw next spring; they differ on how it is being drawn now, and how it will look next April. “For now the line will be on the Dnieper with the zone extending from the west bank into the rump Ukraine – my guess is at a depth of not less than 100km. This will put Russian territory out of the range of most Ukrainian artillery. A 100km-deep zone will also give the Russian forces time to detect and intercept anything in flight. In the central sector, Kherson City will remain without population for an as yet undecided period. For as long as this lasts, the city is likely to be part of the zone rather than part of Russian territory. Time and armistice negotiations may change that.”

    “In the northern sector – that’s from Kramatorsk and Slovyansk to Kharkov, then northwestward to Sumy and Chernigov – these are garrisons and staging areas of hate on or near to Russia’s borders; they will not be spared. It’s lights out for them. They made their decision in February-March and during the pull-back last spring. The shelling, sabotage, and other attacks on Bryansk, Belgorod and Kursk have qualified them for de-electrification, de-population, and de-nazification.”

    “The point to emphasize, especially in the Russian operations in the north, is that they will be РЕЙД operations – they will not seize and hold territory. The penetrations will be deep, but not as deep as last February-March. This time they will include a massive security element,  including drones and infantry support. The idea won’t be to occupy the territory, let alone administer it, for any length of time. The goal will be to destroy enemies who raise their heads and the infrastructure they rely on; lay mines and sensors; and then withdraw.”

    “Once the assigned transportation and logistics nodes have been taken, the job of destroying them by engineer units will begin. Bridges, roads, railroads, marshalling yards, rolling stock, airfields, fuel storage and dispensaries, electrical substations, transmission and communications towers, central offices, warehouses, laydown areas,  agricultural equipment – anything that could possibly be used to support the Ukrainian-NATO effort east of the zone’s western border will be destroyed. That will be also be the ground forces’ job – more comprehensive and thorough than missile and drone strikes can achieve.”

    “Civilians and disarmed fighters, without their motorized equipment, will be permitted to walk out of the zone to specially prepared buses (as Surovikin supervised in Syria) with whatever they can carry on their backs.
    ...
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:47 pm

    Tako su osmanlije i tatari nekad osvajali.

    The outcome is an end to  hostilities with an armistice that is not a peace treaty.

    Ok, to verujem, to sam uvek mislio da je najverovatniji tip prekida neprijateljstva.
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:22 pm

    Vajb srednjeg veka
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:25 pm

    Moram reci da osim bombardovanja yrenutno ne vidim naznake tako necega. Bez obzira na to sto nece biti cilj da okupira nego da zulumćari, za to su potrebne snage koje sad ne vidim. Ako je ovo prica sta ce da rade od proleca...to je jako dug period u ovom ratu. Kako misle da izvode te operacije prema Krivom Rogu na primer?
    Del Cap

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    Post by Del Cap Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:29 pm

    Preko Dnjepra raketama i slično. Ovo kopnenom vojskom je vrv za Harkovsku oblast, delove D-Petrovske, Poltavsku, možda ka Sumiju, sve gore uz UKR-RU granicu.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:32 pm

    Videcemo. To su veliki prostori i ozbiljne operacije.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Dec 16, 2022 3:32 pm

    Nije to Koreja, sa morem sa jedne i druge strane
    Летећи Полип

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    Post by Летећи Полип Fri Dec 16, 2022 5:05 pm

    Oni ne mogu da uzmu Bahmut, a razvući če DZ široku 100km, i to blic naletima. How yes no.

    Inače upadljiva je ova ruska uporna opčinjenost brzinom, koju oni nemaju.


    _____
    Sve čega ima na filmu, rekao sam, ima i na Zlatiboru.


    ~~~~~

    Ne dajte da vas prevare! Sačuvajte svoje pojene!
    паће

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    Post by паће Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:28 pm

    Летећи Полип wrote:
    Inače upadljiva je ova ruska uporna opčinjenost brzinom, koju oni nemaju.

    Ко о чему...


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       commented, fermented, demented, mementoed, cemented, lamented.
       анархеологистика: оно кад не знаш где си га затурио, и кад.
    Bleeding Blitva

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    Post by Bleeding Blitva Fri Dec 16, 2022 7:58 pm

    https://newrepublic.com/article/169481/russia-ukraine-colonies-future-westsplaining

    Malo o westsplainingu


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    my goosebumps have goosebumps
    Јанош Винету

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    Post by Јанош Винету Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:34 pm

    Летећи Полип wrote:Oni ne mogu da uzmu Bahmut, a razvući če DZ široku 100km, i to blic naletima. How yes no.

    Inače upadljiva je ova ruska uporna opčinjenost brzinom, koju oni nemaju.

    Намерно сада немају брзину, то је свесна одлука. "Темпо операција" је нешто што су научили од Немаца и то је кодификовано у њиховој тактици и оперативном поступању. Не
    могу сад да елаборирам о томе, али "темпо операција" је конкретан и валидан војни термин који постоји и у Америчкој војној доктрини.

    Људство је један ограничен ресурс. Рачуна се на мртве и рањене ако се врше активна борбена дејства.

    По америчким наводима, Руси свесно жртвују људе зарад постизања оперативног темпа тј. постизања одређених крупнијих циљева (то су они силни "котлови" о којима сањаре русофили). Жртвујеш неке јединице да направиш пробој и окружиш непријатеља. Али ако се противник одсудно брани за сваки педаљ, ако је укопан и врши бочне нападе те не седи скрштених руку, од тога нема ништа.

    На почетку смо имали безглаве јурише и десанте на аеродроме у дубину да би се непријатељ довео у стање дисбаланса, да се не зна ни где су њихови ни где су наши, али са циљевима које треба да се узму. То је пропало па је намерно дошло до повлачења и артиљерског изнуривања, све док Химарс није изједначио предност Руса у артиљерији.


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    Burundi is an exception among other nations because it is a country which gave God first place, a God who guards and protects from all misfortune.
    Burundi... opskurno udruženje 20ak levičarskih intelektualaca, kojima je fetiš odbrana poniženih i uvredjenih.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:52 pm

    Bleeding Blitva wrote:https://newrepublic.com/article/169481/russia-ukraine-colonies-future-westsplaining

    Malo o westsplainingu

    [size=33]Any discussion of the region’s future shouldn’t give short shrift to the possibility of new nations emerging from under Putin’s yoke.[/size]

    Na primer - Srbi  Rat u Ukrajini - Page 30 2304934895
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Fri Dec 16, 2022 8:54 pm

    Da nije bilo Miloševića ne bi bilo Kosovara, zna autor šta priča.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”

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