William Murderface wrote:Rat je uvek katastrofa, čak i kada je pravedan, pa čak i kada je jedino pravedan.
William Murderface wrote:Ja moram da priznam da u meni čuči jedan pacifista koji je sa godinama sve manje potuljen. Rat je uvek katastrofa, čak i kada je pravedan, pa čak i kada je jedino pravedan.
Ali jbg, ono što je jezivo u proslavljanju Oluje nije to što je to proslavljanje ratne pobede, nego pobede varvarizma, etničkog ekskluzivizma i zločina. Prevideti to, pa preći na opštehumanističko drvljenje o strahotama rata kao takvog je potpuno slepilo, ili, kao u ovom slučaj, bedna manipulacija.
A o prvom svetskom ratu, i srpskoj pobedi u njemu, mnijem, Bazdulj ima malo drugačije mišljenje koje je sad zaboravio da spomene. Meni je inače u njegovoj glorifikaciji Principovog čina i svim pratećim oduševljavanjima, upravo išao na nerve taj potuljeni belicizam i potpuno potiskivanje drugačije, pasicifstičke perspektive na taj rat, koja je itekako postojala i u Srbiji, i pre i za vreme i posle rata.
Ali - postoji zgodan citat za svaku priliku, za svaku fintu, za svaku masku koju Bazda tog jutra sebi stavi na lice. Po Bazdi, mišljenje i nije ništa drugo do nalaženje zgodnih citata za potkrepljivanje onoga što ti je iz drugih razloga zgodno da veruješ, ili da tvrdiš da veruješ.
уместо да буде лоша енгрпштина, скарабуџен не-превод од "win a war", испада тачно. Не победити у рату, него победити сам рат.ja mislim da ima cela jedna generacija koja moze da bude, uz sve ograde, ponosna sto je taj rat pobedila.
ostap bender wrote:pa i ja se malo igram jezikom ponekad
Doduše obnovili su i mafiju.William Murderface wrote:Da, sasvim tačno. A Amerikanci čija je pobeda za Malapartea sramota su njegovu Italiju obnovili i ponovo izgradili. Proslavljanje Oluje je "opet ćemo, opet ćemo".
William Murderface wrote:ostap bender wrote:pa i ja se malo igram jezikom ponekad
Mr.Pink wrote:ne, uopšte nije stvar u brojkama i računicama, pogotovo ne u totalnom ratu. invazija prosto nije bila alternativa. činjenica da nisu kapitulirali nakon prve bombe dovoljno govori o tome dokle bi generali i car išli, a išli bi do kraja. od japana ne bi ostalo ništa.
tako da ja na to gledam kao na svojevrsnu pobedu nad ratom.
Most historians agree the official version from the US government — that the bombs were dropped to force an early surrender and saved up to a million American lives from a bloody invasion — is far too simplistic.
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/50-years-after-hiroshima-2The failure of these reasons to reflect the limits on the conduct of war is evident, so I focus on a different matter: the failure of statesmanship on the part of allied leaders and why it might have occurred. Truman once described the Japanese as beasts and to be treated as such; yet how foolish it sounds now to call the Germans or the Japanese barbarians and beasts! Of the Nazis and Tojo militarists, yes, but they are not the German and the Japanese people. Churchill later granted that he carried the bombing too far, led by passion and the intensity of the conflict. A duty of statesmanship is not to allow such feelings, natural and inevitable as they may be, to alter the course a democratic people should best follow in striving for peace. The statesman understands that relations with the present enemy have special importance: for as I have said, war must be openly and publicly conducted in ways that make a lasting and amicable peace possible with a defeated enemy, and prepares its people for how they may be expected to be treated. Their present fears of being subjected to acts of revenge and retaliation must be put to rest; present enemies must be seen as associates in a shared and just future peace.
These remarks make it clear that, in my judgment, both Hiroshima and the fire-bombing of Japanese cities were great evils that the duties of statesmanship require political leaders to avoid in the absence of the crisis exemption. I also believe this could have been done at little cost in further casualties. An invasion was unnecessary at that date, as the war was effectively over. However, whether that is true or not makes no difference. Without the crisis exemption, those bombings are great evils.
U bombardovanjima pojedinih nemackih gradova stradalo je vise civila nego u Hirosimi i Nagasakiju. I bombardovanja japanskih gradova su u nekim slucajevima odnela vise zivota nego 2 bombe.William Murderface wrote:Apsolutno nije bila nužna. Alternativa je bila invazija. Nije izabrana samo zato što su Amerikanci procenili da je bolje žrtvovati japanske civile, nego američke vojnike. ALi to ne može biti moralno opravdana računica, jer civili ne smeju biti ratna meta, posebno ne sa ciljem zastrašivanja druge strane. To je državni terorizam.
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by Indy Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:17 pm
Erős Pista