pedofilija

timur chevket wrote:zar to nije nalicije ideje o normalnoj seksualnosti?

gagorder wrote:

timur chevket wrote:zar to nije nalicije ideje o normalnoj seksualnosti?

Mozes da razradis ovo pls?

gagorder wrote:Mene muci ovaj izraz orijentacija. Receno je, ako dobro razumem, da imas neku orijentaciju za koju nisi odgovoran (valjda zato sto te je zadesila bez tvoje volje) sve dok ne postupis u skladu s njom. Je li to osobina u potenciji, ili je to vec ispoljena osobina uz to sto je tesko ne delati onako kako ona nalaze (a kao, ona mnogo intenzivnije "zahteva" delanje ako je pedofilska nego ako nije) ili nesto trece? Ja sam uvek laicki kapirala da nemas nista osim praksu i da je ta praksa jedino sto moze da se normira i da je ta norma nuzna da razgranici dve slobode. Ne znam cemu taj izraz orijentacija uopste sluzi i sta opisuje.

Zanimljiva mi je ta ideja da pedofilija pretstavlja gotovo mandatornu teznju, neki unutrasnji poriv kome se mnogo teze odupreti nego drugim oblicima seksualnosti.

bemty wrote:uh, ne znam brojke (posebno za incest, niko ne zna brojke jer je tabu), ali svakako su to ljudi sa vise kontakta s decom, pa je time i verovatnoca veca. a autoritet pomaze da se dete ubedi da ne isprica nikom, sto opet povecava verovatnocu.

meni je bilo zanimljivo zapazanje iz prvog linka kako veci deo ljudi koji pocini pedofilski cin nije imalo fantazija o deci prethodno. deluje da se najcesce radi o ljudima koji sadisticki uzivaju u poziciji moci, gde je seks samo bonus. i to lici na ove grupe koje si pobrojao.

zizek wrote:We reach thereby the "heart of darkness" of habits. Recall numerous cases of pedophilia that shatter the Catholic Church: when its representatives insists that these cases, deplorable as they are, are Church's internal problem, and display great reluctance to collaborate with police in their investigation, they are, in a way, right - the pedophilia of Catholic priests is not something that concerns merely the persons who, because of accidental reasons of private history with no relation to the Church as an institution, happened to chose the profession of a priest; it is a phenomenon that concerns the Catholic Church as such, that is inscribed into its very functioning as a socio-symbolic institution. It does not concern the "private" unconscious of individuals, but the "unconscious" of the institution itself: it is not something that happens because the Institution has to accommodate itself to the pathological realities of libidinal life in order to survive, but something that the institution itself needs in order to reproduce itself. One can well imagine a "straight" (not pedophiliac) priest who, after years of service, gets involved in pedophilia because the very logic of the institution seduces him into it. Such an institutional Unconscious designates the obscene disavowed underside that, precisely as disavowed, sustains the public institution. (In the army, this underside consists of the obscene sexualized rituals of fragging etc. which sustain the group solidarity.) In other words, it is not simply that, for conformist reasons, the Church tries to hush up the embarrassing pedophilic scandals; in defending itself, the Church defends its innermost obscene secret. What this means is that identifying oneself with this secret side is a key constituent of the very identity of a Christian priest: if a priest seriously (not just rhetorically) denounces these scandals, he thereby excludes himself from the ecclesiastic community, he is no longer "one of us" (in exactly the same way a citizen of a town in the South of the US in the 1920s, if he denounced Ku Klux Klan to the police, excluded himself from his community, i.e., betrayed its fundamental solidarity). Consequently, the answer to the Church's reluctance should be not only that we are dealing with criminal cases and that, if Church does not fully participate in their investigation, it is an accomplice after the fact; moreover, Church AS SUCH, as an institution, should be investigated with regard to the way it systematically creates conditions for such crimes. 

• Catholic priests do not commit sexual abuse against minors at a rate higher than other faiths or occupations, and in fact may have rates of sexual abuse less than that of many or most other professions
  
• that the incidence of "pedophilia", i.e., sexual relations with pre-pubescent child, as compared with "ebophilia," sexual relations with post-adolescent teenagers, is extremely small
  
• the popular perception of pedophilia and Catholic priests owes much to deeply imbedded historical, American anti-Catholic prejudice and a confluence of sociological factors, including the breakdown of Catholicism as a key identity of Catholics, and the fact that because of its structure, the Catholic Church has "deep pockets" that make it an attractive "target" for suits.
  

bemty wrote:sve mi to zvuci blisko razumu. s druge strane, na to pitanje sam nasla i ovaj odgovor na jednom mestu:

The most exhaustive analysis on this question was performed by Philip Jenkins in his book Pedophiles and Priests: Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis. Jenkins conclusions, in a nutshell, are that:

• Catholic priests do not commit sexual abuse against minors at a rate higher than other faiths or occupations, and in fact may have rates of sexual abuse less than that of many or most other professions
  
• that the incidence of "pedophilia", i.e., sexual relations with pre-pubescent child, as compared with "ebophilia," sexual relations with post-adolescent teenagers, is extremely small
  
• the popular perception of pedophilia and Catholic priests owes much to deeply imbedded historical, American anti-Catholic prejudice and a confluence of sociological factors, including the breakdown of Catholicism as a key identity of Catholics, and the fact that because of its structure, the Catholic Church has "deep pockets" that make it an attractive "target" for suits.
  

Jenkins' study was performed in the late '90s, but its conclusions have held up over time. The recent John Jay College Report on the Causes and Context of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests in the United States, 1950 - 2010, published in May of 2011, confirms that the number of priests accused of child abuse was around 4% of the total number of priests, that the number of priests who were true pedophiles was around 5% of priests acccused of child abuse, and that the incidence of child abuse peaked around 1970 and has fallen since that time. [One should also be aware that not all "child abuse" allegations involve allegations of physical impropriety.]

The John Jay Report contains information about the incidence of child abuse within other faiths and child service organizations. Making a precise comparison of other institutions with the Catholic Church is hampered by the fact that while the Catholic Church has made its data known, other faiths and institutions have engaged in pretty much the behavior that the Catholic Church engaged in prior to the child care scandal shining the light on the issue on the Catholic Church. The publicity given to the Catholic Church has permitted other institutions to escape attention. For example, a report by Charol Shakeshaft in 2004 has been largely ignored. That report synthesized data found from a variety of sources and concluded that 7% of students in grades 8 to 11 had experienced an unwanted sexual contact, with 21% of those being perpetrated by educators. There has, as yet, been no public outcry against schools or educators with respect to "pedophilia" as there has been against the Catholic Church.

The John Jay Report purports to exonerate homosexuality and celibacy as the "causes" of the pedophilia crisis, preferring instead to assign the cause to the general breakdown of social mores during the "Woodstock era." Given the fact that celibate priests are no more likely to engage in pedophilia/ebophilia than other groups, and that the number of child abuse incidents have declined notwithstanding the continuation of the celibacy requirement, it seems contrary to the facts to argue that celibacy causes child abuse or that Catholicism has some propensity toward child abuse.

William Murderface wrote:Mislim da nakon Savilovog i Sendaskievog slučaja, nemamo nikakvog razloga da verujemo da katolička crkva odskače od bilo koje slabo transparentne institucije sa zaštićenom elitom.