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    Ratovi 90tih na prostoru SFRJ

    паће

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    Post by паће Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:18 am

    Ћуј сад, видео сам то 2007. Тако добро изгледа да ми је скоро жао што ми не треба Ratovi 90tih na prostoru SFRJ - Page 12 1143415371.


    _____
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    Zuper

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    Post by Zuper Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:41 pm

    Kao sto sam onomad na ovome zboristu zborio:


    Jedan od najiskusnijih ratnih izveštača na svetu i dobar poznavalac prilika na Balkanu o tome je, između ostalog, pisao u svojoj knjizi „Rat i smrt vesti“. Bel je 32 godine radio za „BBC“ i izveštavao iz 11 ratova, među kojima su oni u bivšoj Jugoslaviji, Vijetnamu, Bliskom istoku, Alžiru, Rodeziji, Salvadoru, Nikaragvi i Iraku. Prenosimo odlomke iz njegove knjige „Rat i smrt vesti“ o tome kako je Velika Britanija priznala secesiju Hrvatske:
    – Lord Karington je bio predsednik Haške konferencije zadužen da pronađe mirovna rešenja pošto se Jugoslavija raspadala. Nevolje mu je zadavala kampanja Nemačke u korist Hrvatske. Drugog decembra 1991. godine, on je napisao evropskim ministrima spoljnih poslova: „Rano priznanje Hrvatske bi nesumnjivo značilo slom konferencije. Postoji realna opasnost, a moguće i verovatnoća da bi i Bosna i Hercegovina takođe zatražila nezavisnost i priznanje što bi bilo potpuno neprihvatljivo za Srbe u toj republici… To čak može biti varnica koja će zapaliti Bosnu i Hercegovinu“. Ovo je upravo ono što se desilo.
    U to vreme, dugogodišnji ministar spoljnih poslova Nemačke Hans-Ditrih Genšer je odgovorio da napomene Lorda Karingtona, „verovatno ohrabruju one snage u Jugosaviji koje su se do tada čvrsto opirale zaključcima mirovnog procesa“.
    Nemačka je pritiskala za priznanje Hrvatske i zbog pritisaka koje je imala u svojoj vladajućoj koaliciji. Genšerova Slobodno-demokratska partija je tada bila u koaliciji sa Hrišćansko-demokratskom unijom tadašnjeg kancelara Helmuta Kola i taj posao priznanja su priželjkivali za sebe. Genšer, koji je ranije kao ministar spoljnih poslova odigrao važnu ulogu u reunifikaciji Nemačke, sada je predvodio kampanju za priznanje Hrvatske. On se lično solidarisao sa Hrvatima, saglasio se sa vladom u Hrvatskoj i molio u njihovoj katedrali. Neke ulice i trgovi u Hrvatskoj su po njemu nazvani.

    Sudbonosni sastanak Saveta ministara Evropske zajednice održan je u Briselu 16. decembra 1991. U početku su Nemci na svojoj strani imali samo Dance i Belgijance, koji su podržavali njihov stav prema Hrvatskoj. Ostali su se tome suprotstavljali. Međutim, nakon dugog sastanka i radne večere, aritmetika se promenila. U ranim jutarnjim satima 17. decembra, „Dvanaestorica“ se dogovorila da prihvati priznanje. Kako se desila promena?

    Kasno te noći, Daglas Herd, tadašnji britanski ministar spoljnih poslova, pozvao je telefonom svoju vladu u Londonu. Teško je odupreti se zaključku da je to bilo u vezi sa ministarskim sastankom koji je održan dve nedelje ranije, kada je Nemačka bila od izuzetne pomoći Britaniji da dobije izuzeća iz Mastrihtskog ugovora, koji se tada pregovorao. Evropom je bio od presudne važnosti za britansku politiku. Tadašnji britanski premijer Džon Mejdžor je smatran zaslužnim za izuzeća koja je Britanija dobila Mastrihtskim ugovorom i dobio je generalne izbore koji su ubrzo usledili. Majdžor je tu pobedu nazvao, „gejm, set i meč“.




    Debata je bila vrlo, vrlo oštra, ali je rezultat bolji nego što smo ga očekivali“. Ugovor u Mastrihtu i priznanje Hrvatske su, naravno, bile dve odvojene i nepovezane stvari – Genšer je o tom sastanku rekao. I Džon Mejdžor i Daglas Herd su negirali postojanje neke veze i trgovine njima. To je bilo više kao nezapisana razmena usluga između prijatelja, nezapisana, ali ne i da se o njoj nije govorilo.
    – Ono što je istina je da kada smo došli do odlučujućeg momenta u Briselu po pitanju Hrvatske i Slovenije, Nemci su mi stvarno rekli – rekao je Daglas Herd. Setite se da smo se pobrinuli za vaše probleme prije 2-3 nedelje u Mastrihtu, tako da vas zamolimo da imamo jedan moralni i politički problem – dodaje on. Predviđanja Lorda Karingtona su se ostvarila i rat jednom kada je počeo postao je nezaustavljiv. ”
    Esterházy Márton

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    Post by Esterházy Márton Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:48 pm

    A sta je poenta ovog teksta? Da velike sile trguju oko svojih interesa?

    Ima i ona balvana Borisava Jovica koji je kukao sto su im Kinezi pred uvodjenje sankcija u UN porucili da mogu samo da budu uzdrzani od glasanja i uputili ih da se "o svemu dogovaraju sa Nemackom". Balvanu verovatno i dalje nije jasno zasto su dobili pedalu.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:36 pm

    talas priznanja je bio u pripremi mesecima pre toga, ništa tu nije lomljeno preko kolena. niti je posebno bitno da li je bilo u novembru, decembru, januaru ili februaru.
    Zuper

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    Post by Zuper Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:53 pm

    Na osnovu cega to tvrdis?
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:52 pm

    pa za početak predlog haške konferencije sredinom oktobra je već predviđao nezavisnost republika uz dogovor o modalitetu veza. milošević je, uz podršku skupštine srbije, to odbio. to je jedna stvar, a i to ima uvertiru.

    mihael libal, nemački diplomata i (sa)učesnik nemačkih odluka (ne nepristrasni posmatrač, nikako,  ali je bitno zarad shvatanja mišljenja o temi):


    Let me recall that the decision of the EU in favour
    of recognition came on 16 December 1991. What lay before that date? After a brief
    war in Slovenia at the end of June 1991 intensive fighting accompanied by ethnic
    cleansing had started in Croatia already at the end of July and had grown ever more
    intense and disturbing over the following months. On 7 September the EC
    Conference on Yugoslavia had opened in The Hague. After the Serbs had put a de
    facto end to the Yugoslav state on October 3 by usurping control of the Federal
    Presidency, EU Foreign ministers had two days later agreed on the principle of
    recognition at the end of the negotiation process conducted under the auspices of
    the community. Five days later, on October 10, the EC presidency had set a limit of two months for these negotiations. Serb procrastination had followed and had been
    accompanied by the shelling of Dubrovnik and the shocking “liberation” of
    Vukovar (on 18 November). And on 7 December the arbitration commission of the
    EC Conference on Yugoslavia in The Hague, the so-called “Badinter Commission”,
    entrusted with arbitrating the difficult legal matters that would come up during the
    search for a political settlement, had recognized the disintegration of the Yugoslav
    Federation, thereby implicitly confirming the German view of the disappearance of
    the Yugoslav state and of the conflict as a Serbian war of territorial expansion.

    ...

    There was one other
    element in German policy which took the sting out of the loose talk about
    “self-determination": the resolute refusal to a priori consider the possibility of a
    change in the frontiers of the individual republics. Self-determination by these
    republics could only be exercised in the framework of the existing frontiers. It
    could not be combined with claims to the territory of other republics in the name of national or ethnic “self-determination”. Thus any aspirations towards a “Greater
    Croatia” or a “Greater Albania” were as unacceptable to Germany as the “Greater
    Serbia"-policy pursued by Belgrade. For Genscher in particular, to throw open the
    question of the intra-Yugoslav borders (as suggested at one point in the early
    summer of 1991 by the Dutch presidency of the EC) was to open a Pandora's box
    for the whole of Europe. Thus, from the German point of view it was not the
    Slovene and Croatian leaders and even less Germany herself which threatened the
    status quo in the Balkans and in Europe in general. It was Milosevic and the
    Yugoslav army with their general attack on the principles of the Paris Charta of the
    CSCE and on the possibility that these principles would now be applied throughout
    all of Europe.
    ...

    In retrospect it even seems surprising how long Genscher resisted domestic
    pressures for recognition. What he did refuse though, was to consider the principle
    of non-recognition as an absolute dogma and the questioning of that dogma as an
    unacceptable heresy. All through the summer and fall of 1991 he respected the
    refusal of the EC to recognize Slovenia and Croatia , but as a merely pragmatic
    decision of the EC, based on the recognition that success of EC policies depended
    on the individual member states abstaining from unilateral actions (not from
    expressing independent opinions). For the common policy of the EC after July
    1991 did no longer aim at preserving the old Yugoslavia at all cost and for its own
    sake. The aim was to help the parties to the conflict to find a peaceful solution,
    possibly including a new association between the Yugoslav republics. The policy of
    non-recognition aimed at keeping open such an option. Gradually it lost its purpose
    once it became clear that Serbia was not really interested in negotiating a new
    constitutional order on the basis of equality with the other republics. Genscher just
    saw earlier than most of his colleagues that the Serbian blockade of the negotiation
    process rendered the principle of non-recognition obsolete.


    vrlo rano je nemačka kao centralno pitanje postavila tezu da se nije radilo o očuvanju jugoslavije nego o među-republičkim odnosima, gde je srbija bila neko ko je narušavao odnose tj hoće da menja granice. jugoslavija kao celina je apstrahovana iz debate.


    dalje, holanđani:


    The EC Foreign Ministers, who also met on March 4, briefly discussed
    Yugoslavia during lunch, repeated their call for a dialogue between Belgrade and the republics. Five days later, however, Serbian security forces
    backed up by tanks crushed student demonstrations in Belgrade.44 The
    event prompted Germany to circulate a tough draft-declaration, which
    spoke of the need for a ‘creation of a new Yugoslavia’. Other member
    states argued that Germany was racing ahead of developments and it
    proved impossible to reach agreement.

    The political directors decided to suspend the issuing of a declaration
    pending further developments in Yugoslavia. The Eastern Europe working group was asked to advise on the matter whereby it was to pay specific attention to the problems involved in the attempts to ‘issue a balanced
    declaration which would do right to the tension that existed between the
    principles of unity of the central state on the one hand and the right to
    self-determination on the other.Given the struggle for independence of
    individual Yugoslav republics as well as former Soviet republics, notably
    the Baltic States and Ukraine, the working group was asked to advise on
    the question of to what extent the unity of Central European states
    should be supported under all circumstances.

    ...

    When the Eastern Europe working group met, on March 19 and 20, it
    seemed initially that there was considerable support for the Dutch (and
    German and, probably, Danish) line of thought. The working group concluded that for the Soviet Union as well as for Yugoslavia, a ‘double track
    policy’ was needed whereby the EC would maintain contacts, both with
    the central authorities and, independently, with the republics. However,
    this conclusion was thought to contradict the established policy of maintaining a formal distinction between the central authorities and the independent Yugoslav republics. As a result, the working group’s meeting
    ended in confusion. The report of the meeting, drafted and circulated by
    the EPC secretariat, qualified the conclusions: the contacts should primarily serve to convince the Yugoslavs to stay together.

    In May, developments in Yugoslavia finally turned the crisis into an acute
    political problem for the European Community’s Foreign Ministers. In a
    clash in the Serb-held village of Borovo Selo in Croatia, Serb militiamen
    killed twelve Croatian policemen, while three Serbs also lost their lives.45
    Further complicating the situation was the announcement on 15 May by
    Serbia that it would block the rotation of the Yugoslav federal Presidency
    to the Croat Stipe Mesic.

    As had been the case with the violent suppression of the student demonstration in Belgrade, Germany wanted the EC to issue an unequivocal and
    strong response to the Borovo Selo incident. A German draft declaration
    no longer mentioned the words ‘unity’ and ‘territorial integrity’ and concluded that the fundamentals of a durable solution were democracy, right
    to self-determination, respect for human rights and the rights of minorities as well as the rule of law. The subsequent discussions revealed that the
    majority of EC member states still believed that Yugoslavia’s territorial
    integrity should remain the key principle of EC policy. In the final declaration, again, German thinking was left out and the ‘unity’ of Yugoslavia
    again advocated.

    The shared wish to stick to a consensus that had been reached in late 1990
    continued to paralyse the European Community until the Slovenian and
    Croatian declarations of independence of June 25, 1991 forced the Europeans to face up to a new reality. The first occasion on which to reassess
    the European Community’s policy of support for the territorial integrity
    of Yugoslavia came with the European Council of June 28 and 29 in Luxembourg. The declarations of independence now constituted a fact and
    armed conflict between Slovenian police and the Yugoslav Army had
    erupted the day before. A worst-case scenario that took into account such
    developments had not been worked out. The Eastern Europe working
    group and the CoPo had decided that a wrong signal would go out to
    Slovenia and Croatia if the EC worked out potential responses to a crisis
    situation triggered by their coming declarations of independence. Instead,
    it had been decided to adopt a ‘wait and see’ attitude. Existing policy
    would have to be continued right up until the moment of actual secession
    and there would be no recognition before all possible consequences for
    peace and security had been evaluated. There were to be no deals with
    Slovenia that could not be reproduced with other republics, so as to keep
    alive the possibility of a confederation. No wonder that the European
    Council ‘had difficulty with the new situation’, as Prime Minister Ruud
    Lubbers put it. According to Lubbers the main question faced by the European Council was: ‘How was one to handle the right to self-determination
    within Yugoslavia?’.46 This was the question the EC Foreign Ministers had
    found impossible to address seriously without splitting the European
    Community. Not surprisingly the European Council did not, within the
    space of two days, manage to find satisfying answers either. Van den Broek
    remembers a ‘vehement debate about CSCE principles’ between French
    President François Mitterrand and German Chancellor Helmut Kohl.
    ‘Mitterrand emphasised the importance of territorial integrity and Kohl
    that of the right to self-determination.’47 Indeed, in his remarks to the
    press, Mitterrand said that the EC ‘must not be accused of trivialising the
    territorial integrity of Yugoslavia’, while Kohl declared ‘that the priorities
    now were human rights, the rights of minorities and the right to selfdetermination’ [of individual Yugoslav republics].48 As some sort of conclusion, according to Lubbers, the European Council agreed that to ‘keep
    Yugoslavia together as a country seemed neither a realistic nor a desirable
    option. Nor was an uncontrolled departure by the constituent republics.
    The process instead had to be managed and behind that aim the European
    Community would rally in unison and with all strength.’4

    ...

    Between July 8 and 12, Van Walsum immersed himself in ‘nothing but
    Yugoslavia’.12 His conclusion was that the ‘real choice was between the
    recognition of individual republics within their existing borders whereby
    the protection of minorities would have to be guaranteed by legal instruments, or the redrawing of the republics’ borders in order to achieve a
    maximum degree of ethnic homogeneity.’13 By July 12, Van Walsum had
    worked out both options in a memorandum, which he sent to Van den
    Broek, who was then in the regular Friday meeting of the Cabinet. According to Van Walsum, Van den Broek telephoned him that afternoon to say
    that, while an interesting academic analysis, the paper did not actually
    constitute policy. For his paper to be policy, Van Walsum would have to
    make a case for one of the two options. Van Walsum told Van den Broek
    over the phone that, despite obvious objections against border changes,
    this was nonetheless the option he favoured. According to Van Walsum,
    the Foreign Minister replied that once the author’s preference was reflected in the paper, it could go out to the EC capitals as a Coreu telegram’
    (Coreu stands for ‘Correspondence Europeenne’, the telegram system
    through which the EU capitals communicate).14 This telegram was sent on
    Saturday July 13, with only the initials of the Director-General for Political
    Affairs on it. The key section of the proposal was a carefully worded case
    in favour of a ‘voluntary redrawing of internal borders as a possible solution.’15

    As was pointed out, Van Walsum did not believe that legal instruments
    could solve Yugoslavia’s minority problems. ‘It was unthinkable that
    the Serbs in the Krajina, for example, would reconcile themselves to an independent Croatia on the basis of a minority statute.’16 ‘If Yugoslavia
    was being destroyed by its ethnic differences, it did not seem very sensible
    to choose precisely that option which would result in the creation of new
    independent states (most notably Bosnia-Herzegovina), that would be
    plagued by exactly the same ethnic differences.’17 Moreover, Van Walsum
    believed the means to stop the moves towards partition from the outside
    were lacking. Crucially, while Van Walsum recognised that the Serbs
    stood to gain most from a revision of borders, the proposal was applicable to all of Yugoslavia, including Kosovo, where the ethnic Albanian population had similar ambitions to the Croats and Slovenes, Bosnians and
    Serbs. As such, the proposal was intended to function both as a carrot and
    a stick in the EC’s relationship with the Serbian leadership.
    The Dutch border changes proposal was rejected out of hand by virtually
    all the EC partners (only Denmark expressed some sympathy). It clashed
    with the German approach, as presented by the acknowledged Yugoslavia-expert at the German Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Michael Libal,
    which was founded precisely on recognition of the republics within their
    existing borders as the juridical instrument to render illegal the Yugoslav
    army’s intervention in Croatia.1

    ...

    The Dutch text, which had been drafted on August 27, explicitly condemned Serbia and the Yugoslav People’s Army for their fait-accompli
    policy in Croatia. It warned that this policy could never succeed in effectively protecting the Serbs in Croatia because the international community would never recognise borders that had been changed through force.
    The text stated that an effective cease-fire, monitored by the international
    community, was an absolute precondition for fruitful negotiations and
    called upon Serbia to give up its resistance to an expansion of the EC
    Monitoring Mission to Croatia. Crucially, the sanction proposed by the
    Dutch Presidency, if Serbia were to refuse to heed these calls, would be
    the exclusion of Serbia (and Montenegro) from EC-chaired negotiations
    regarding the future of Yugoslavia. The implicit threat was clear: without
    Serbia such talks could easily result in an agreement to recognise individual Yugoslav republics as independent states.

    The Dutch EC Presidency thus for the first time showed a willingness to
    adopt an anti-Serbian selectiveness.It was prepared to try and build a
    consensus around the possibility of a settlement to which Serbia and
    Montenegro would not be party, which would in turn open the way for an armed response of some sort to Serbian cross-frontier military
    activities. The Dutch were not yet ready to give explicit support to an
    early recognition as such; nor were they eager to repeat the debate of June
    and July over that issue, the deceptive simplicity of which – one was either
    for or against recognition – had divided the member states. Nevertheless,
    the Presidency’s draft should have taken away any doubts on the part of
    Germany as to whether the Netherlands was prepared to accept recognition as the eventual outcome.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:29 am


    Dragan Vasiljković, poznat i kao kapetan Dragan, rano jutros pušten je iz zatvora u Lepoglavi i protjeran iz Hrvatske, javili su hrvatski mediji.

    Vasiljkovića su u Lepoglavi preuzeli policajci koji su ga prebacili do graničnog prelaza Bajakovo, gdje je oko 9.30 časova protjeran iz Hrvatske.
    Njemu je izdato rješenje sa zabranom ulaska i boravka na području "Evropskog privrednog prostora" u trajanju od 20 godina.
    U Ministarstvu pravosuđa su potvrdili da je Vasiljković pušten nakon što je odslužio zatvorsku kaznu.
    Vasiljković je izdržao zatvorsku kaznu od 13,5 godina na koju je bio osuđen u Hrvatskoj, zbog ratnog zločina. 
    Budući da mu je u izdržavanje kazne uračunato i vrijeme provedeno u ekstradicionom zatvoru u Australiji od osam godina i devet mjeseci, te u istražnom zatvoru u Hrvatskoj, kazna mu je istekla u martu ove godine.
    Ranije su mu u čak tri navrata odbijani zahtjevi za uslovnim prijevremenim otpustom.
    Kapetan Dragan, koji ima srpsko i australijsko državljanstvo, uhapšen je u Australiji gdje je živio i bio trener golfa. Hrvatskoj je izručen u maju 2015. godine.
    kondo

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    Post by kondo Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:32 am

    jadnicak, sad mora u karantenu


    _____
    #FreeFacu

    Дакле, волео бих да се ЈСД Партизан угаси, али не и да сви (или било који) гробар умре.
    паће

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    Post by паће Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:33 am

    Ма неће га ни пустити да уђе, јер највећа опасност су ти наши што се враћају.


    _____
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       Морони на власти чешће мењају правила него гаће.
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:33 am

    A onda kod Marića, Teše...
    No Country

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    Post by No Country Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:35 pm

    Тренер голфа.


    _____
    Међутим у Србији-мук, када вам кажем-мук!
    Vilmos Tehenészfiú

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    Post by Vilmos Tehenészfiú Sat Mar 28, 2020 5:59 pm

    13,5 godina odležao već? Kako brzo vreme prolazi kad nisi u zatvoru... ili samoizolaciji.


    _____
    "Burundi je svakako sharmantno mesto cinika i knjiskih ljudi koji gledaju stvar sa svog olimpa od kartona."

    “Here he was then, cruising the deserts of Mexico in my Ford Torino with my wife and my credit cards and his black-tongued dog. He had a chow dog that went everywhere with him, to the post office and ball games, and now that red beast was making free with his lion feet on my Torino seats.”
    bradilko

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    Post by bradilko Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:22 pm

    ni mardelj nije sto je bio. ja mislio doci ce mu glave hrvati da mi ne prljamo ruke a on ziv i zdrav.
    hm mozda donese neki respijator iz dijasere
    avatar

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    Post by beatakeshi Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:48 pm

    Niko da izvesti o novom muralu ispred tzv .Marakane?
    ficfiric

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    Post by ficfiric Sat Mar 28, 2020 7:55 pm

    Kojem?


    _____


    Uprava napolje!

    avatar

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    Post by beatakeshi Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:02 pm

    Trenera golfa, ima u VNovostima, ne mogu sa telefona.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Mar 28, 2020 8:04 pm

    Ratovi 90tih na prostoru SFRJ - Page 12 90988261_229928818381142_7850902296681512960_n_1000x0
    disident

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    Post by disident Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:59 pm

    Ratovi 90tih na prostoru SFRJ - Page 12 91692220_225826865447798_9199804700898099200_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=9zCjgGQN-n4AX9ghifw&_nc_ht=scontent-vie1-1


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    Post by Janko Suvar Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:40 pm

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1246405178217152512
    Anonymous
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    Post by Guest Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:10 am





    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:21 am

    Kad kaze "mi nemamo gospodare" ono sto misli je "ja nemam gospodara". I, btw, ta politika kvazi-suverenizma je daleko od mrtve. Najnoviji njen pojavni oblik je recimo upravo odbijanje ovog povoljnog kredita od nekoliko 100tina miliona evra. Ta politika je samoubistvena jer male drzave nikada nisu na taj nacin suverene, cak ni ako su veoma bogate.
    паће

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    Post by паће Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:39 am

    А на који начин су суверене, кад јесу?


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       Морони на власти чешће мењају правила него гаће.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:54 am

    паће wrote:А на који начин су суверене, кад јесу?

    Pa ne moze tako, prvo se mora utvrditi sta je danas u stvari drzava, odnosno koji su sve izvori legitimiteta sredisnje vlasti
    паће

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    Post by паће Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:56 am

    Mór Thököly wrote:
    паће wrote:А на који начин су суверене, кад јесу?

    Pa ne moze tako, prvo se mora utvrditi sta je danas u stvari drzava, odnosno koji su sve izvori legitimiteta sredisnje vlasti

    Аха, за "јесу" треба редефиниција, за "нису" може из рукава.


    _____
       I drove a škodilak before it was cool.
       Морони на власти чешће мењају правила него гаће.
    Nektivni Ugnelj

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    Post by Nektivni Ugnelj Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:00 am

    Da, zato sto pricamo konkretno o onome kako je Milosevic to video. Na konkretan iskaz konkretan komentar

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