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Pravoslavlje - eshatologija, egzegeza, patristika, savremeni razvoji

Mór Thököly

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Post by Mór Thököly on Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:09 pm

plachkica wrote:dodik kao političar mora da ubije čoveka u sebi, ja to tako čitam


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Post by buffalo bill on Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:24 pm

Pritom je Konjević polje jedno od mesta gde je bila zarobljena/locirana jedna od većih grupa zarobljenika nakon pada Srebrenice.
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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:19 pm

Crkva je izgrađena u vrijeme Kačavendinog stolovanja Z/T eparhijom, u vrijeme dok je Fata Orlović još bila u izbjeglištvu. Uporna je bila i decenijama se borila i izborila za izmiještanje crkve iz svog dvorišta. Prije desetak godina je pričala kako su joj milion maraka nudili (mislim da ih je baš Dodik nudio) za taj komad zemlje na kom je crkva ali je odbila ponudu.
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Post by Ferenc Puskás on Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:40 pm

Svetinja.


_____
Ha rendelkezésre áll a szükséges pénz, a vége általában jó.
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Post by beatakeshi on Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:50 pm

Kakvo je nedavanje svetinja po SAD-u? Neka reorganizacija?
kapetanm

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Post by kapetanm on Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:30 pm

Pravoslavlje - eshatologija, egzegeza, patristika, savremeni razvoji - Page 4 Images11
Začuđujući mi je forumaški znak jednakosti između ateizma i levičarstva ili makar naprednih shvatanja.
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Post by Janko Suvar on Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:49 pm

beatakeshi wrote:Kakvo je nedavanje svetinja po SAD-u? Neka reorganizacija?
Fanariot Maksim kaze da je to samo oko odnosa te tri eparhije sa SAD i da je bolje tako posto drugojacija pravila vaze za eparhije u Kanadi i Argentini.
beatakeshi

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Post by beatakeshi on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:20 pm

U VNovostima je to na naslovnoj strani.
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Post by Janko Suvar on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:32 pm

pa fanariot Maksim je nesto pricao protivu Vucica, pa eto prilike da se ukaze da cepa crkvu i pisa po svetom Savi.

Misilm ima svasta lose kod fanariota Maksima, bar po mom osecanju stvari, sto se vidi po tome da ga zovem fanariot Maksim, ali ovo su samo rezimski tabloidi, protiv nekog sto se buni.


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Post by Mór Thököly on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:33 pm


bar po mom osecanju stvari

Moras prestati da toliko puno slusas profesora Lompara
Janko Suvar

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Post by Janko Suvar on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:50 pm

Ovako on to vidi 

 Sasvim je jasno da ne možete Ustav zamišljati da pokriva dva kontinenta kada se njegove odredbe poštuju samo u SAD. Ustav nije sakralni nego organizacioni dokument koji definiše okvire u kojima se kreće Crkva, između ostalog, i u određenom vancrkvenom kontekstu. Različiti status Crkve u pojedinim društvima utiče i na unutarcrkvenu organizaciju i zbog toga je apsurdno da npr. Eparhija u Brazilu i ona u SAD imaju isti ustav. Nema nikakvog izdvajanja ili težnje ka pripajanju tuđoj jurisdikciji. Naši episkopi i sveštenici u SAD bez prestanka svedoče o svom hrišćanskom i srpskom identitetu. U našim Eparhijama i među velikom većinom sveštenstva u kom plamti žar služenja, primetna je sloboda i blagodat Božija.

Taj detalj oko promene imena doveden je u vezu sa odlukama Kritskog Sabora, na kome je Vaseljenska patrijaršija nanovo položila pravo na upravljanje crkvama u tzv. Varvarskim zemljama/narodima pozivajući se na 4. Vaseljenski sabor 451. godine u Halkidonu, iz čega sledi da treba da postoji samo jedna Pravoslavna crkva u Americi, u kojoj bi bili svi: Srbi, Grci, Rusi, Arapi, Jermeni, Gruzini…Ima li osnova da se povezuju ove dve stvari/događaja/čina?
-To dvoje se samo u mašti pojedinaca može dovesti u vezu (a vidim da ima takvih sa vrlo bujnom maštom). Koliko mi je poznato, Vaseljenska patrijaršija nije zvanično saopštila da u praksi primenjuje svoje tumačenje 28. kanona Halkidonskog sabora. Ona svoje tumačenje čuva za sebe jer da ga primenjuje tada bi nastupio problem. Međutim, jedno su želje a drugo su mogućnosti. Štaviše, ista ta Vaseljenska patrijaršija je inicirala da se pitanje dijaspore rešava saborno, a ne unilateralno. Plod toga je dokument o dijaspori Svetog i Velikog Sabora usvojen i pre Krita i na samom Kritu. Kada pročitate taj dokument videćete da on ne sadrži sporne elemente, a najmanje primese tobožnjeg istočnog papizma ili nečeg slično tome. On upućuje na sinergijsko delovanje Crkve i onemogućava bilo čija jednostrana rešenja. .

Međutim, ako ćemo da budemo iskreni, tada treba da se setimo da je o budućoj jednoj Crkvi u Americi govorio još pre skoro 70 godina Episkop Žički Nikolaj dok je boravio u SAD. Obratite pažnju šta je on napisao: „Možda nije daleko vreme kada će u Americi biti stvorena jedna Pravoslavna Crkva Amerike, u kojoj će se ujediniti svi pravoslavni narodi Amerike. To će biti jedinstvena Pravoslavna Crkva sa jednim centrom i sedištem crkvene vlasti u Americi. Primećujem i sada kod pojedinih pravoslavnih naroda ovde, takvu težnju i takvo raspoloženje… Kada, Božjim Promislom, dođe i sazri vreme za ostvarenje jedinstva, biće to radost mnogih. Ne sumnjam da će velikodostojnici i poglavari naših Crkavâ, Evrope, Azije i Afrike, rukovođeni mudrošću Svetoga Duha, pokazati ljubav i razumevanje, dajući saglasnost i blagoslov za uspostavljanje jedne nove sestrinske Crkve u Americi“. Što se nas tiče, dodao je negde drugo Episkop Nikolaj, „mi Srbi želimo da to (stvaranje jedne autokefalne Crkve u SAD) gurnemo što dalje u budućnost… Ali SPC treba da je dalekovidna, i da misli o budućnosti svoga naroda u ovoj zemlji“


tako da zajeban je fanariot, a vole ga podjednako nacionalisti jer ne da Kosovo i liberali jer govori amerikanskim jezikom demokratije, sekularizma i multikulturalizma, a i nije moron veruje ™ u evoluciju.


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Post by Erős Pista on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:59 pm

kapetanm wrote:Pravoslavlje - eshatologija, egzegeza, patristika, savremeni razvoji - Page 4 Images11
Začuđujući mi je forumaški znak jednakosti između ateizma i levičarstva ili makar naprednih shvatanja.


Ne znam na šta tačno misliš, rekao bih da niko ovde (dok se Filip ne vrati) nema problem sa crkvom kao takvom, ali činjenica je da ovaj objekt o kojem je reč nije bio nikakva crkva, nego živo svedočanstvo zločina. Došli, pobili, proterali, a onda na tom otetom posadili crkvu, pa još neće da je pomere. Najgora instrumentalizacija religije u zločinačke svrhe protiv koje bi prvi trebalo da se pobune sami vernici.


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Mór Thököly

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Post by Mór Thököly on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:10 pm

Ti, Suvare, gledas na crkvu iskljucivo sa nacionalnog stanovista. Mnogi u crkvi, bilo kojoj crkvi, na to ne gledaju tako.
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Post by Janko Suvar on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:17 pm

pa ne, nisu autokefalne crkve nacionalne, samo autokefalne.


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Post by Mór Thököly on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:24 pm

ne radi se o tome. sve pravoslavne svestenike prevashodno zanima koliko ce biti pravoslavnih vernika. Mislim, ok, zanima ih (ove iz SPC) i koliko ce biti Srba, ali samo pod uslovom da su, jelte, pravoslavni. Meni licno je potpuno svejedno da li ce se neki "pravoslavni Srbin" koji zivi u US ozeniti Grkinjom, Ruskinjom, WASP Amerikankom, crnkinjom ili hispano devojkom (izmeniti potrebno za "pravoslavnu Srpkinju"). Ali njima nije, tj svestenicima. A posto u US i dalje sasvim lepo funkcionisu te "zajednice", neki mozda misle (tj za neke znam da misle) da je bolje da imaju 1 veliku takvu zajednicu (pravoslavnu) i da ce tako lakse opstati.
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Post by Mór Thököly on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:29 pm

Da ne pricam o onim drugim stvarima kao sto su lobiranje i tako dalje.
kapetanm

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Post by kapetanm on Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:58 am

William Murderface wrote:
kapetanm wrote:Pravoslavlje - eshatologija, egzegeza, patristika, savremeni razvoji - Page 4 Images11
Začuđujući mi je forumaški znak jednakosti između ateizma i levičarstva ili makar naprednih shvatanja.


Ne znam na šta tačno misliš, rekao bih da niko ovde (dok se Filip ne vrati) nema problem sa crkvom kao takvom, ali činjenica je da ovaj objekt o kojem je reč nije bio nikakva crkva, nego živo svedočanstvo zločina. Došli, pobili, proterali, a onda na tom otetom posadili crkvu, pa još neće da je pomere. Najgora instrumentalizacija religije u zločinačke svrhe protiv koje bi prvi trebalo da se pobune sami vernici.
Nisam razumeo da je reč o nekom konkretnom objektu izvinjavam se onda. Ali podstakao me je opsti smer misli koje pristizu  sa svih tema.
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Post by buffalo bill on Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:16 pm

The Orthodox Church & Social Teaching
‘For the Life of the World’
By John Chryssavgis
March 23, 2020

In January the Ecumenical Patriarchate approved a social document, titled For the Life of the World, that formulates guiding principles for the role of the Orthodox Church—and the responsibility of Orthodox Christians—in the modern world. In his letter of endorsement, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew praised the theological commission that drafted the document for having addressed “the complex challenges and problems of today’s world, without at the same time overlooking the favorable potential and positive perspectives of contemporary civilization.” The document will be available on the website of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America and published in print by Holy Cross Orthodox Press in April.

For the Life of the World, which runs to about 33,000 words, provides helpful general guidelines for Orthodox Christians struggling to navigate contemporary challenges. It begins with the fundamental contours of an Orthodox Christian worldview and concludes on a prayerful note, with an expression of hope for personal and social transformation. Its approach to critical and controversial issues—including racism, poverty, human rights, bioethics, technology, and climate change—is both rigorous and pastoral. The work of a dozen scholars throughout the world (including Commonweal contributor David Bentley Hart), the document is an unmistakably collaborative “achievement,” as the Ecumenical Patriarch describes it in his endorsement. It is the tangible result of extensive hierarchical assessment and comprehensive synodal approval. In their preface, the editors describe the project as “a complicated, not to say contentious, undertaking.” The aim was to delineate an Orthodox “ethos”:

It is impossible for the Church truly to follow Christ or to make him present to the world if it fails to place this absolute concern for the poor and disadvantaged at the very center of its moral, religious, and spiritual life. The pursuit of social justice and civil equity—provision for the poor and shelter for the homeless, protection for the weak, welcome for the displaced, and assistance for the disabled—is not merely an ethos the Church recommends for the sake of a comfortable conscience, but is a necessary means of salvation, the indispensable path to union with God in Christ; and to fail in these responsibilities is to invite condemnation before the judgment seat of God. (§33)

Notwithstanding its broad scope, the document does not hesitate to offer pointed commentary on controversial topics. For example, it has this to say on inequality:

Among the most common evils of all human societies—though often brought to an unprecedented level of refinement and precision in modern developed countries—are the gross inequalities of wealth often produced or abetted by regressive policies of taxation and insufficient regulation of fair wages, which favor the interests of those rich enough to influence legislation and secure their wealth against the demands of the general good. (§35)

On the refugee crisis:

The developed world everywhere knows the presence of refugees and asylum-seekers, many legally admitted but also many others without documentation. They confront the consciences of wealthier nations daily with their sheer vulnerability, indigence, and suffering. This is a global crisis, but also a personal appeal to our faith, to our deepest moral natures, to our most inabrogable responsibilities. (§66)

On science:

And the Church encourages the faithful to be grateful for—and to accept—the findings of the sciences, even those that might occasionally oblige them to revise their understandings of the history and frame of cosmic reality.  The desire for scientific knowledge flows from the same wellspring as faith’s longing to enter ever more deeply into the mystery of God. (§71)

For the Life of the World has special significance when viewed against the background of Orthodox history. The Eastern Church has long been wary of—even allergic to—social statements of this kind. At some point in its long Byzantine excursion, Eastern Christianity stopped dealing with questions related to the present and instead focused on the reiteration of formulas from the past. The Eastern Church considered itself well equipped for handling otherworldly or sacred things, whereas the state was entrusted with worldly or secular things. This understanding of a clearly defined role for the church in relation to the clearly designated responsibility of the state inevitably narrowed the Eastern approach to social justice. Issues having to do with politics and policy (especially as they relate to power and corruption), or with economy and science (especially as they relate to poverty and prosperity), were either minimized or dismissively delegated to Western Christianity. In fact, the West excelled in these domains. By contrast, matters of personal maturity and spiritual integrity became the principal interest and mystical investment of Eastern Christianity.

It wasn’t always this way. The Eastern church once had a bold voice on social justice. A cursory reading of fourth-century writers like Gregory the Theologian and John Chrysostom reveals the prominence of the social dimension of the Gospel both in their thinking and their ministry. Certainly Basil the Great strenuously disapproved of retreat from the world. Any eschatology that encouraged escapism from one’s time and place was denounced as heretical and hazardous. Over time, however, an emphasis in the Christian East on monasticism (as the silent withdrawal into the heart) and mysticism (as the spiritual enchantment of the heavenly) provided a justification for disengagement from the world, with various important consequences for Orthodoxy’s ecclesiology, liturgy, and ethos. Even the conventional safety-valve of Orthodox Christian ethics—the relationship between spiritual elder (almost exclusively male) and spiritual disciple—is frequently a way of evading concern for universal principles and surrendering to the personal discretion of an individual.

More recently, Orthodoxy’s social doctrine has been further reduced to an emphasis on nationalism as the means of survival in times of persecution and oppression. During such periods, the church instinctively turned inward, identifying with the early martyrs and focusing on the mere preservation of the faith at the expense of evangelization. Yet another reason Orthodox Christianity has either abandoned or failed to develop a clear social vision is the tendency to denounce or dismiss anything that resembles Western Christianity.

In 2000, the Church of Moscow published “The Basis of the Social Concept,” an admirable though rudimentary effort to outline the social principles of the Orthodox Church in Russia after an extended period of state suppression. The overall approach of that document was critical of “the world,” regarding it as a threat to be defied and defeated. Such a defensive posture may survive and even thrive under conditions of confessional isolation, but it doesn’t fare as well in a more ecumenical context.

In contrast, it was at least partly the encounter with other traditions and cultures, other branches of Christianity and even other religions, that inspired the worldwide Orthodox Churches to convene the Holy and Great Council in Crete in 2016. Meeting together for the first time in almost a millennium, Orthodox patriarchs and hierarchs—together with a handful of consultants—issued a formal decree as well as an encyclical message on “the role of the Orthodox Church in the contemporary world.” The new document complements the work of the Council and can be understood as part of the process of its reception.

For the Life of the World is the fruit of an unprecedented collaboration between the official Orthodox hierarchy and lay Orthodox scholars and theologians. The Orthodox Church could still do much more to involve and inform the laity on matters related to doctrine and polity—a hardened nucleus of clericalism persists in Orthodox Christianity—but this project is a mark of important progress. The fact that Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew commissioned and endorsed such a forward-looking document demonstrates a welcome and refreshing shift in mentality for a church that has often been more comfortable keeping its attention fixed on the past. It is the work of a religious tradition that will no longer settle for mere survival.

https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/orthodox-church-social-teaching

Mór Thököly

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Post by Mór Thököly on Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:26 pm

We're all commies now
bradilko

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Post by bradilko on Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 pm

😄

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