Desnicarski topik

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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by William Murderface on Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:05 am

Pa ne mogu to da gledam, će mi spojluje. Ali ako i on hejtuje, još jača preporuka za film.

Nego sad nađoh jedno žensko mladunče u akciji. Ne znam šta bi reko Mekinis, verovatno da je buduća lezbejka. Doduše stvarno ne razumem kako može da se igra s pištoljem kad nema upper body strength.



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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by William Murderface on Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:20 am

Pržun wrote:Pa sta ste se sjatili ovde koji moj.   Idite na svoje teme. 



Jos jedan od tupavog milionera, posto vidim da vam je mio. 




Pošto sam u međuvremenu pogledao Arrival, samo da opljunem glupandera. Ne samo što nije shvatio film, nego što, naravno, nije prepoznao ni referencu. Proud to be dumb.

Spoiler:

Walking along one day on the newly-discovered coast of Australia, Captain Cook saw an extraordinary animal leaping through the bush.
"What's that?" he asked one of the aborigines accompanying him. "Uh - gangurru." he replied - or something like that. Captain Cook duly noted down the name of the peculiar beast as 'Kangaroo'. Some time later, Cook had the opportunity to compare notes with Captain King, and mentioned the kangaroo. "No, no, Cook", said King, "the word for that animal is 'meenuah' - I've checked it carefully. "So what does 'kangaroo' mean?" "Well, I think," said King "it probably means something like 'I don't know'..." But it was too late, and so ever since, the English word 'kangaroo' has been based on a misunderstanding, and really means 'I don't know'. At any rate, that's how the story (probably apocryphal) goes.
It may well have been this story which Quine had in mind when he came up with the 'Gavagai' example used in 'Word and Object'. The word has achieved a kind of fame in itself: there is now a species of beetle named after it, and it was used by Umberto Eco as the name of a minor character in his novel 'Baudolino'.
Quine was concerned to give a fundamental explanation of how we manage to use words: 'how surface irritations generate, through language, one's knowledge of the world'. He addressed in particular the problem of radical translation - how we can find a translation for words in an entirely unknown language which has no known correspondence with our own. Utterances such as 'ouch', he suggested, are relatively straightforward - the word properly corresponds with the occurence of pain. But other words, even nouns, do not correspond so exactly to the pattern of stimuli we happen to be experiencing at the time.  
Suppose we have a linguistic explorer and a native subject: a rabbit runs past and the native exclaims 'Gavagai!'. The linguist forms the reasonable hypothesis that 'Gavagai' means 'rabbit', but how can he be sure? Putting aside some difficulties about 'yes' and 'no', he can ask the native in a series of different situations the simple question 'Gavagai?' and see what responses he gets.
Quine wants to build up from 'stimulus meaning', which is equivalent to a list of all the stimuli which would prompt the native to say 'yes' in response to the stereotyped question, to more complex and natural kinds of meaning - 'occasion sentences' which are true in particular sets of immediate circumstances (eg when a rabbit is present) and 'standing sentences' which are true irrespective of what happens to be going on around us at the moment, for example.   
But the upward path proves unexpectedly difficult. As a matter of fact, the native's tendency to agree may be influenced by extraneous factors - he may have seen a rabbit a few minutes before and hence be prepared to accept a mere rustling in the grass as sufficient evidence. Or he may observe a characteristic 'rabbit fly' unknown to the linguist which betokens the prescence of a rabbit even in the absence of any other evidence. Or perhaps he dissents, not because he thinks there isn't a rabbit, but because he presumes the linguist to be a hunter and there isn't at the moment a clear shot available.
But even if we can get round these difficulties, there simply is no guarantee that any finite set of observations pin down the correct meaning of the word 'gavagai'. Even if we can establish identity if stimulus meanings, we cannot thereby verify 'intrasubjective synonymy' of 'gavagai' and 'rabbit'. The native may use the word in exactly those situations in which the linguist would use the word 'rabbit', but it could still mean something different: 'temporal section of a rabbit' or 'set of undetached rabbit parts'. For that matter, it could mean 'rabbit or dalek' or 'rabbit before the year 3000 and bear after that'. Ultimately Quine affirms the 'indeterminacy of translation' - we cannot provide certain radical translations (and since translation is, for Quine, much the same as understanding, we can never be sure we have correctly understood any linguistic utterance either).
A natural reaction to this disastrous conclusion is incredulity. Yes, of course, some degree of uncertainty attaches to everything; yes, we can always come up with a fantastic alternative meaning for any sentence which is logically consistent with the circumstances, but so what? We just know that in practice translation is possible. There are two things which can be said in reply.
First, problems of translation and misunderstanding are not as exceptional as all that. It would be entirely possible for an Englishman and an American to have lengthy conversations about robins without realising that the word refers to entirely different birds on different sides of the Atlantic (hence, in part, the bemusement which generally creeps over a British audience during one particular scene in 'Mary Poppins'); or indeed, to talk about turtles without realising that one used the word in a significantly more inclusive sense than the other.
But second, Quine never denied that in ordinary conversation and translation we seem to manage pretty well - the question is how, exactly? It's not difficult to explain that once you have seen enough examples of the use of 'gavagai' the meaning becomes obvious - but stating exactly how it becomes obvious, and how all those implausible alternatives are recognised as implausible, is extremely difficult, as the creators of translation programs have found. One can liken Quine's attitude to translation to Hume's puzzlement over induction - it seems to work: indeed, without it we should be in grave difficulty, but why it works is an utter mystery.
To quote one last practical example, we can return to poor old Captain Cook. Although the legend of his misunderstanding still thrives, it appears from more recent research that in fact the word he heard all those years ago probably did mean 'kangaroo' in a particular local dialect after all. So what about Captain King's 'meenuah'? It turns out that the word he was reporting was probably one that meant, not 'kangaroo', but 'edible animal'...
http://www.consciousentities.com/gavagai.htm



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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Filipenko on Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:59 am

Pa naravno, oni nastupaju iz pozicije "ako stvarnost nije u skladu sa mojim uverenjima, tim gore po stvarnost." Sad, nisam gledao Arrival pa da mogu da sudim, ali ovakve likove je lako pročitati. 



I zapisati.


Spoiler:
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:28 am

Filipenko wrote:Pa naravno, oni nastupaju iz pozicije "ako stvarnost nije u skladu sa mojim uverenjima, tim gore po stvarnost." Sad, nisam gledao Arrival pa da mogu da sudim, ali ovakve likove je lako pročitati. 



Z
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:17 am

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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:08 pm


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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Gargantua on Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:29 pm

opa, domaćim reptilijancima ni gumene gaće neće pomoći!
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:50 am

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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:38 am




Sirimo portfelj teme zanimljivim licnostima iz sveta desnice.
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:27 am

Przune, zasto su meni privlacne samo i iskljucivo bele zene, ne mora bas iz istocne evrope, al preferabilno je?
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:37 am

Zato sto imaju vece sise. A iz istocne Evrope, to ti je zato sto su najzenstvenije od belih zena. Nisu Tramp, Mel Gibson i tamosnji bogatasi budale. Znaju sta valja.
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by William Murderface on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:41 am

A mozda je i ono sto kaze Hanibal Lekter - "We covet what we see".


Last edited by William Murderface on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Filipenko on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:43 am

Pržun wrote:Zato sto imaju vece sise. A iz istocne Evrope, to ti je zato sto su najzenstvenije od belih zena. Nisu Tramp, Mel Gibson i tamosnji bogatasi budale. Znaju sta valja.



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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:45 am

Pa dobro. Ova druga s leva i nije tako losa.
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by William Murderface on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:07 pm

Sta ce Srbin da otrpi za rusku ljubav



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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by bruno sulak on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:57 pm

zastitnik gotama wrote:Przune, zasto su meni privlacne samo i iskljucivo bele zene, ne mora bas iz istocne evrope, al preferabilno je?




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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:30 pm

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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:23 am

Suvare, ja razumem da ostali Burundjani sabotiraju. Medjutim, nisam od tebe ocekivao da mi podmetnes ovog degenerika. Nista, okrece se novi list u diplomatskim odnosima.
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Filipenko on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:08 am

Čekajte, naciji ladno citiraju Mendelu? Onog Mendelu koji se borio protiv aparthejda? Onog Mendelu čije je hapšenje američki predsednik st. Regan iz samo njemu znanih razloga   pozdravio jer se radilo o, po njemu, opasnom komunističkom teroristi?


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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:07 am

Pržun wrote:Suvare, ja razumem da ostali Burundjani sabotiraju. Medjutim, nisam od tebe ocekivao da mi podmetnes ovog degenerika. Nista, okrece se novi list u diplomatskim odnosima.
ali ona je degenerik u toj raspravi
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:39 am

Nacoš zajebo manekenku i druge male alt rajh radosti.


_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:09 am

posto se forum fokusira samo na velike pobede inace.
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:17 am

propali radijski voditelj, komunista koji reklamira banku reko dezurnoj internet budali da je glup - 15 postova!
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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by otto katz on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:22 am

zastitnik gotama wrote:propali radijski voditelj, komunista koji reklamira banku reko dezurnoj internet budali da je glup - 15 postova!
A?


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Re: Desnicarski topik

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:26 am

Ma život se sastoji od malih radosti, forumski pogotovu, samo kažem - to each his or her own.


_____
"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

Dragoslav Bokan, Novi putevi oftalmologije

Re: Desnicarski topik

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