EU - what's next?

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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:26 pm

EU pursues “positive realpolitik” in the Balkans, says Hahn

By Andrew MacDowall in Belgrade June 12, 2017


The European Union’s approach to the Western Balkans is “positive realpolitik” rather than turning a blind eye to local autocrats, European Commissioner of European Neighbourhood Policy and Enlargement Negotiations Johannes Hahn said during a visit to Belgrade on June 9.

Hahn also implied that Balkan politicians would not implement reforms without external pressure – and specifically EU pressure – and reaffirmed his determination to bring the Western Balkan countries into the union, despite a growing perception that the enlargement process is doomed. But he insisted it would only happen once European values are “implemented in the genes of the people”.
In response to a bne IntelliNews question about increasingly vocal claims that Brussels backs “stabilocrats” in the region, favouring stability while regional leaders erode the rule of law and democracy, Hahn said that the approach was a pragmatic one, but with an end goal of ensuring countries meet European standards.

“In an ideal world, I’d like to see 100% democrats, but even within the EU, we don’t have 100% democrats,” the Commissioner said at a press briefing on the sidelines of a Western Balkan investment conference. “This is an evolutionary process, it’s about striking the right balance, it’s about a kind of positive realpolitik, to see what is achievable. We have to have in mind our final goal, and I’m always saying that all these countries in the region should be a really full member of the European Union family from the day of their accession. And this includes that they are accepted as a member state because they are performing well in terms of the economy, but also because of the rule of law and [democratic] fundamentals.”

The EU has been accused of ignoring creeping authoritarianism in the Balkans, allowing domestic backsliding as long as the region remains conflict-free and once-warring Balkan states normalise their bilateral relations.
Regional governments are accused of imposing curbs on media freedom, allowing limited exposure for opposition politicians, and monitoring and intimidation of opponents, as well as electoral manipulation. Domestic and international critics say that Brussels is too willing to cosy up to regional strongmen such as Serbia’s Aleksandar Vucic, Montenegro’s Milo Djukanovic, Kosovo’s Hashim Thaci, and former Macedonian Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski. They argue that the EU’s decision to favour the status quo over change for fear of upsetting the Balkan applecart will in the long run lead to a more combustible regional situation as peaceful political development stalls.

“The guys here will never change something on fundamentals without external pressure, I’m also not naïve on that,” Hahn said.


But while admitting Brussels’ “realpolitik” in the region, Hahn insists that over time, Balkan countries must prove themselves to be fully-fledged democracies with European standards of rule of law before they can join the union. He says that the EU’s approach is to start accession by opening chapters (areas of negotiation in which candidate states must harmonise with EU laws and standards) with two of the toughest and most symbolic: 23 on judiciary and fundamental rights and 24 on justice, freedom and security. These will also be the last chapters to be concluded with current candidate states. This approach was partly developed after the accession of Romania and Bulgaria, during which some felt that the most difficult chapters were left too late, and the countries were granted membership before they were fully compliant.

Currently, Serbia and Montenegro have started negotiations on EU accession, Macedonia is an official candidate state but has had its progress blocked by a Greek veto, while Bosnia & Herzegovina and Kosovo are regarded as “potential candidates”. 

“Our new concept to start negotiations with opening chapters 23 and 24, and finishing the process by closing these two chapters, demonstrates that this is for us so fundamental, so decisive, that it has to be at the beginning and at the end of the process,” Hahn said. “Only if we have a very high reassurance guarantee that these European values, this European concept is implemented in the genes of the people, will membership be possible.” 
Hahn acknowledged that bringing the Western Balkans into the European Union will involve convincing often-sceptical electorates in current member states, who will demand high standards of the prospective new members.

Hahn also emphasised that the EU is a soft power, and that he does not have the tools to remove regional leaders or governments. The EU has been accused of powerlessness in recent political crises in Macedonia and Albania, with a perception that agreement between opposing sides was only achieved once US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Hoyt Yee started playing a more active role in mediation. Hahn insists that the US worked in coordination with the EU, and that one of his main aims is to encourage greater cooperation and compromise between players in the otherwise zero-sum world of Balkan politics.
“It is unrealistic to believe that I can pull out a leader and introduce another one, which is sometimes proposed by people who otherwise stress their commitment to democracy,” Hahn said. “So we can only contribute with a lot of time and energy to facilitate soft transitions.”

In recent years, the EU’s internal problems, “enlargement fatigue” and seemingly intractable political, economic, and territorial problems in the Balkans have led to a rising feeling that the region may never be integrated into the union. Even some moderate public figures in the Western Balkans already openly talk of preparing for a scenario in which EU prospects have dwindled to nothingness, and diplomats in the region talk off the record about the huge challenges stalling the enlargement process. Some say that the EU’s stance is already clearly shifting to an emphasis on political, economic, and social “resilience” and associated institution-building in the region, with reassurances that the countries can be integrated into Europe without necessarily becoming full members.

Hahn, however, gave a robust defence of EU enlargement to the Western Balkans, and Brussels’ much-criticised policies in the region.
“If somebody says the EU doesn’t have a strategy in the region, the answer is simply that it is the future accession of all these countries, and we achieve this sooner rather than later,” he said. “Everything we do is subordinated to this overarching goal – all these countries should become members of the union. This is simply the message.”

To reinvigorate EU engagement with the Western Balkans, Hahn proposes a range of measures, including better communication with citizens by both EU institutions and national governments. Some of the latter, however, seem reluctant to give the EU much credit; recently German Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel noted that the motorway into Belgrade from the airport features a prominent billboard praising Serbian-Russian partnership, but little of the “yellow and blue” of the EU. 

Hahn also proposes changing tack on EU financing in the region, focusing on larger and higher-profile projects that increase the visibility of the union’s work. This is increasingly important as other global players – China, Turkey, and particularly Russia – look to boost their role in the region.

“Europe should not be seen only as a cash machine where you get money and the emotional relations are towards others,” Hahn said. “Our understanding is that the success of Europe is based on our values, and if a society wants to have a similar success story as the European one, it needs to apply the same values.”

Ovi su zabrazdili više nego što sam mislio. EU nema kapacitet da bude realpolitičar, teško i za svoju sitnu korist a kamoli na korist suseda/nas.

Čitajte ovo kao najavu besmislenih PR vežbi dok se sleže ramenima na blentove po okolini.

Pragma...
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Anduril on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:53 pm

Ne znam odakle ti to - poslednjih 10 godina EU ti je samo takav realpolitik sa sve trulim kompromisima i guranjem na malo.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:31 am

Rečima V. Nuland "Fuck the EU!" 


In a landmark ruling, the European Court of Justice (CJEU) told Dutch ISPs today that they must block access to The Pirate Bay because it facilitates an "act of communication" by allowing users to obtain pirated material.

"Making available and managing an online platform for sharing copyright-protected works, such as 'The Pirate Bay,' may constitute an infringement of copyright," the CJEU said as part of its decision, which may now pave the way for other European ISPs to enforce their own crackdowns on The Pirate Bay and other illegal torrent websites.

The case has been ongoing since 2009, after Dutch anti-piracy group Stichting Brein (BREIN) took action against local ISPs Ziggo and XS4ALL. In 2012, the District Court of The Hague ruled that the providers must block customers from accessing The Pirate Bay, but Ziggo and XS4ALL successfully overturned the decision two years later. The case was then referred to the Supreme Court before it eventually ended up at the European Court of Justice.

While judges accepted that content submitted to The Pirate Bay is placed online by users and that it doesn't physically host illegal media, they did say that it does "play an essential role in making those works available." Because the site's operators index files, provide a search engine and categorize content, users are quickly able to locate the files they wish to download.

Today's ruling is the second judgement in as many months that focuses on platforms that facilitate the distribution of illegal content. In April, the CJEU confirmed that the sale of hardware that come pre-loaded with add-ons -- including so-called Kodi boxes -- constitutes copyright infringement. Both cases are expected to set precedents that will allow rightsholders to enact similar blocks in local courts across Europe, even if providers are likely to circumvent any blocks placed on their services.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:19 am

US bill on Russia sanctions prompts German, Austrian outcry

A US Senate bill to toughen sanctions on Russia and Iran has been slammed by German and Austrian Social Democrats.
Sigmar Gabriel and Christian Kern say it will warp Europe's natural gas network in favor of US suppliers.

The bill passed by US senators 98-2 and forwarded to the US House Representatives prompted a joint outburst Thursday from Gabriel, Germany's foreign minister, and Kern, Austria's chancellor.
The nub is Nord Stream 2, apipeline project to pump Russian natural gas via the Baltic Sea to landfall in Germany - involving Russia's Gazprom and European energy firms, including Wintershall of Germany and ÖMV of Austria.

"Europe's energy supply is a matter for Europe, and not for the United States of America!" wrote Gabriel and Kern, both center-left Social Democrats.
To threaten European firms also active in the US with sanctions, if they took part in Nord Stream 2, thrust "a completely new, and very negative dimension into European-American relations," the pair wrote.

"In noticeable frankness, the draft US legislation describes what it's really about: the sale of American liquefied petroleum gas and the squeezing out of of Russian natural gas from the European market," said Kern and Gabriel, who was previously economy minister in Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition cabinet comprising her conservatives and Social Democrats.
Two years ago, European Baltic nations aired misgivings because the pipeline would lie on the seabed, bypassing their territories. 

Additions to deter Trump, Russia

The US bill, opposed only by Republican Rand Paul and independent Bernie Sanders, was originally introduced in the US Senate to slap new sanctions on Iran but ended up with its bipartisan amendment on Russia.

Top Senate Democrat Chuck Schumer said the add-on was intended to stop "Russia's meddling in our election" and give Congress the final say should President Donald Trump in the future want to ease sanctions, originally imposed by former president Barack Obama.
"Any idea of the president's that he can lift sanctions on his own for whatever reason are dashed by this legislation," Schumer said.

Schumer wants Trump overruled, should he want to lift sanctions.
"Today, the United States Senate is asserting its responsibilities regarding foreign policy," added Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Bob Corker, a Republican.
The White House subsequently stated that existing sanctions against Russia were effective enough.

Legislative passage unfinished

The bill would penalize key sectors of Russia's economy, including mining, metals, shipping and railways. Individuals identified as hackers who carried out cyberattacks on behalf of the Russian government would also be targeted.

To become law, the bill must still be passed by the House of Representatives and be signed by Trump.
The legislative addition came with Trump's White House embroiled in a allegations that his campaign team colluded with a Russia effort to sway the United State's 2016 presidential election - a charge leveled by US intelligence chiefs but denied by Russia's Vladimir Putin.

The Senate legislation would impose sanctions on persons involved in Iran's ballistic missile program and Tehran's Revolutionary Guard for alleged terrorism.

http://www.dw.com/en/us-bill-on-russia-sanctions-prompts-german-austrian-outcry/a-39270624

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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Zuper on Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:41 am

Ako su tako protiv SAD i njihovog gasa iz skriljaca sto ga oni(ECB) i Japanci finaisraju preko QE? To je jedan od znacajnih razloga za QE, nije, naravno, jedini.
Cela ta opercija u SAD je neprofitabilna ili na pozitivnoj nuli. Gomila kompanija iz godine u godinu gubi novce i ceo proces se finansira ogromnim mahinacijama sa Vol Strita ili cak direktno FED uleti, kao sto je bilo 2016 kada je naredjivao bankama da ne zatvaraju finansiranje kada je nafta pala na isped $30 i ceo taj sektor bio pod goromnom eksploziojom koja bi povukla SAD dole, berza je tih dana pala 20%.
Nego je to dobar-los pandur pristup sada kada Ameri njihovim kompanijama pokusavaju da zavrnu jajca.

Obama se izivljavao nad Evropljanima. Rebnuo je francusku BNP Paribas, ucenjivao nemce preko Deutsche bank i VW...
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Filipenko on Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:25 am

Sigmar Gabriel and Christian Kern say it will warp Europe's natural gas network in favor of US suppliers.


Ma nije moguće Ja mislio da oni iz čistog altruizma i demokratoljublja žele da spreče da se nekvalitetnim gasom sa istoka finansira širenje ruskog zloćudnog uticaja!



To threaten European firms also active in the US with sanctions, if they took part in Nord Stream 2, thrust "a completely new, and very negative dimension into European-American relations," the pair wrote.


Podrška za SŠA. Nord Stream 2 ugrožava bezbednost EU i ne bi valjalo da se izgradi i time nepotrebno stvore podele u jedinstvenom bloku evropskih demokratskih zemalja.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by otto katz on Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:31 am

Kakva šansa za Evropu da artikulira vlastite ekonomske i političke interese između Rusije i USA. 
Tako sam '92. bio ubijeđen da će Evropa napraviti iskorak rješavanjem ex-Yu krize, jer da se politički identitet zadobija jedino hvatanjem u koštac s realnim izazovom. Ali stara kurva zna samo dekadenciju.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:34 am

nije stara kurva nego maltretirana žena, naučila da bude pored lošeg muža, obraduje se povremenoj lepoj reči, govori drugaricama "ma dobar je on, znaš kakvih sve ima" u potajnom strahu da ne izleti na ulicu...
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Filipenko on Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:37 am

otto katz wrote:Kakva šansa za Evropu da artikulira vlastite ekonomske i političke interese između Rusije i USA.
Tako sam '92. bio ubijeđen da će Evropa napraviti iskorak rješavanjem ex-Yu krize, jer da se politički identitet zadobija jedino hvatanjem u koštac s realnim izazovom. Ali stara kurva zna samo dekadenciju.


Nikakva. Niko i ne razmišlja o interesima Evrope, ovde je isključivo reč o interesu Nemačke, kao i prilikom blokiranja Tužnog Toka, kao i prilikom gradnje Nord Stream 2. Samo se Angela pita, samo je nemačnost™ važna, jedino je bitan Hans i pošto je njegova schnitzel, a i to sve manje, već kako stoje akcije nemačkog neradništva™ po silnim firmama na menadžmentsko-pr-marketinškim pozicijama, najvećih lenština u evropskim okvirima, pa i šire. Rasisti već polako koriste sintagmu "nemačka lenština", ispravno zamenjujući Rome Nemcima u istoj.

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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Zuper on Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:43 am

GREECE PICKS DEUTSCHE INVEST-LED GROUP FOR THESSALONIKI PORT
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Sve se moze kada se hoce
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:16 pm

Pa daće Pirej Kinezima.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Zuper on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:20 am

Latest poll sees Merkel's Conservatives stretch election lead to 16 points

-----------

Nesrecnici iz SPD bolje da malo poguraju AfD ili lete iz vlasti.
Cela igra od kraja Drugogo sv. rata u nemackoj poltiici je da CDU nema konkurenciju na desnici. Pravili su samo one cobane budale iz NPD za obracun sa levim elementima na ulici ali nikada za ozbiljnu politiku. Zato je CDU imao kancelara, od uspostavljanja izbora posle Drugog sv. rata, 49 godine od mogucih 68.
Dok se SPD batrga sa Linke(svesno dozvoljeno od CDU da komunisti iz DDR formiraju stranku kako bi uzimali SPD-u), zelenima pa cak i FPD.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Filipenko on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:25 am

Nije moguće, ja sam čuo da Šulc dobro stoji i da će biti sledeći kancelar, a i Milovan je kod Anđusa ustvrdio da SDP dolazi na vlast

Ipak je nacistički sin Zigmar Gabrijel prevejan do bola, ladno je pustio Šulca u prvi plan znajući šta ih čeka. No dobro, po svemu sudeći, SDP će morati u opoziciju, umesto da poput SPSa učestvuje u apsolutnoj vlasti Babašvabe™.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:40 pm

Zanimljiv intervju šefa FDPa, Krisijana Lindnera; oni sada stoje dobro u anketama pa je vlada CDU-FDP (povratak na 2013) izgledna:




German liberal chief targets conventional wisdom


Christian Lindner, a potential coalition partner for Angela Merkel, wants a hard line on Greece and a soft Brexit.

By  Janosch Delcker and Matthew Karnitschnig  

6/21/17, 4:07 AM CET


BERLIN — Germany’s liberal Free Democratic Party is on the verge of resurrection and eager to challenge the status quo, whether the issue is Greece, Trump or even that holiest of all German subjects — the economy.

“Overall, there’s a deceptive feeling of economic invincibility in Germany,” FDP leader Christian Lindner told POLITICO, saying the economy could become “the biggest challenge for the coming years. We find ourselves on a historically high plateau in Germany, but the end is on the horizon.

Following a string of strong showings in regional elections, the FDP has polled well at the national level, reaching a high of 10.5 percent in a survey published Tuesday by the respected Allensbach Institute. If the polls are borne out at the ballot box in September, the FDP would be in good position to join a government led by Angela Merkel’s conservatives.

That may not seem surprising, given the liberals’ long history of alliances with Merkel’s center-right bloc. Except that the Free Democrats haven’t seen the inside of the German parliament since 2013, when they suffered a humiliating general election thrashing that left the party without any seats in the Bundestag for the first time since 1949.

Even if the FDP ends up joining the government as many expect, it’s unlikely to play the pliable sidekick of old. Four years in the political wilderness have left the the party leaner, meaner and itching to fight for its core liberal values.

The credit for the FDP’s budding comeback rests largely with its youthful leader. A former adman turned full-time politician, Lindner, 38, has returned the FDP to its liberal roots and sharpened its tone.

In a wide-ranging interview in his Berlin office, he made clear he wasn’t afraid to take on his party’s longtime allies in Merkel’s Christian Democrats.

Perhaps most controversially, he said Greece should be granted debt relief and forced out of the euro on a temporary basis until its economy recovers, despite the hard-fought deal Athens reached last week with its creditors.

“Debt relief has to be combined with at least a temporary departure from the eurozone,” Lindner said. “A separate currency for Greece carries risks, but also marks a strategic change with new opportunities for Athens.”

Allowing Greece to remain while writing off some of its debts would create “moral hazard,” he warned, and be unfair to countries such as Portugal that have coped with harsh strictures of a bailout program in recent years.

The idea for Greece to exit was originally floated by German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble at the height of the Greek crisis in 2015 but later dropped after Athens agreed to Europe’s tough bailout conditions.

Lindner said Greece should remain a member of the EU but vowed to withhold his signature from any deal on debt forgiveness that would allow Greece to remain in the common currency.

That’s significant because the deal agreed last week between Greece, its creditors and the IMF to end a more than year-long standoff would need the endorsement of Germany’s next government in order to go forward. Lindner said the pact, endorsed by Berlin, constituted a violation of the bailout terms approved by the German parliament in 2015.

Lindner’s position is one shared by many in Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union and its Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union, suggesting that if the parties do form a government, the question of how to deal with Greece could be on the front burner again.

Macron’s ‘Soviet’ system


When it comes to his economic vision for the European Union, Lindner is the “anti-Macron.”

Although he sports striking similarities with the French president — both are charismatic leaders of centrist parties in their late 30s — the German liberal left no doubt that he believes Macron’s ideas for EU reforms will do economic and political harm to the bloc.

“Macron suggests to move towards standardization and, eventually, pooling debt,” he said, warning that this process will lead to “a Soviet Union-style system, in which at some point, the systematic losers will turn against the European Union and the euro.”

It’s something you do not hear often in the German capital these days.

Since Emmanuel Macron won the French presidency campaigning on a staunchly pro-EU platform last month, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and her Social Demcoratic challenger Martin Schulz have increased the emphasis on Europe in their campaigns.

Part of both of their strategies: Claim Macron as one of their own.

Schulz, a former president of the European Parliament, said earlier this month that the new French leader “needs a dynamic politician with experience in European politics as his partner.”

This week, Merkel used an appearance in front of Germany’s business lobby to endorse some of Macron’s suggestions for the eurozone.

Don’t expect Lindner to join their choir.


He stressed that he was happy about the pro-EU candidate winning the presidency instead of far-right nationalist Marine Le Pen, but slammed Macron’s key suggestions for European reforms.

The eurozone needs neither a budget or a parliament of its own, he said.

Instead, Lindner believes it’s time to toughen up on rules inside the EU, which could include linking EU subsidies to adhering to budget rules.

Instead of pursuing a new master plan to force EU countries to integrate, Lindner said he supported a “Europe of diversity.” If Germany and France, for example, wanted to harmonize corporate tax rates, they should do so, but others shouldn’t be compelled to follow. He also rejected the idea of requiring non-euro countries such as Poland to join the currency area.

“When it comes to the question whether all EU member states should join the euro, I don’t share [European Commission President Jean-Claude] Juncker’s euphoria without reservation,” he said. “The eurozone has a number of systematic and economic problems that need to be solved before we can expand the circle.”

Bastion of economic reason


When Lindner took over in 2013, his party was in ruins. Just four years earlier, a triumphant FDP had joined Merkel’s government after winning 15 percent of the vote, a record for the party. Once in power, however, its leadership faltered and failed to make good on a campaign promise to push through tax cuts.

The FDP’s defeat was so total that some observers doubted it would ever recover. Handing the reins to the youthful Lindner, the party’s former general secretary, was seen by many as an act of desperation.

As it sought to broaden its appeal over the years, the FDP had strayed from its traditional focus on self-determination anchored in individual freedom. Lindner has taken it back there, while also embracing a conservative approach to law and order.

The clearest indication that the strategy is resonating came in May in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany’s most populous state.

In a regional election widely considered a key indicator of the national mood ahead of September’s parliamentary poll, the FDP — whose campaign was spearheaded by Lindner — won more than 12 percent of the vote, four percentage points higher than their 2012 result.

But the party knows it will have to work hard to stand out from the crowd in the national campaign, as it goes up against high-profile figures such as Merkel, Europe’s pre-eminent leader, and Schulz.

A big part of Lindner’s strategy is to push the image of his FDP, long a favorite of the business community, as a bastion of economic rationalism.

For Lindner, that means making sure the EU and Britain maintain a close relationship after Brexit. Germany has “a great interest … in a strong and economically prosperous Great Britain,” he said. It also means Germany should not turn away from the United States as one of its most important global partners — no matter which president resides in the White House.

“We continue to depend on the U.S. as our partner when it comes to economic and security policy,” Lindner said.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:43 pm

Makron vs Makron


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:44 pm

Jbmti, ovo je zlo.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:06 pm

Mogu da objašnjavam zašto je ovo što je rekao za Grčku (izlazak iz EZ, vraćanje drahme i prateći otpis dugova) možda i bolje rešenje nego ovo sad.

S druge strane, nema izlaska iz EZ a da se istovremeno ne izađe iz EU. Šojble nije insistirao na ovoj razlici, tj bilo mu je svejedno (ako se ne varam), Lindner je jasan da Grčka treba da ostane u EU, što otklanja najveći deo političke štete.

Sve ostalo je standardni deo diskursa, u granicama već postojećeg.


Brexit je dovoljno razdrmao stavove, ono što je bilo "nemoguće" sad je naravno moguće. Da ne pominjem nas (Z. Balkan) koji, bože zdravlja, neće ući u EU u iole zamislivoivo vreme (osim možda CG). Složeni mehanizam se sad pokrenuo i to ne na sinhronizovan način.


Last edited by Gargantua on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:09 pm

Da, razumem da je to za Grčku možda i bolje (da li je izvodljivo da izađe iz EZ, a ne iz EU?), ali jbt, mrcvare tu zemlju već godinama i sad će još i da ih šutnu. I jebala ih više ekonomska racionalnost, tako može da se vodu STR "Micko", ali ne i ozbiljna evropska politika. Ako ovakvi pobede u EU, razvaliće je, to ti garantujem.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:12 pm

Pa moguće je to, evo editovao sam gore, više stvari se sada kalkuliše i otvaraju se vrata za koja se do pre koju godinu nije ni "znalo" da postoje.

Mislim da nije izvodivo u pravnom smislu da izađe iz EZ a da ostane u EU (nije predviđena takva opcija) ali mogu da zamislim da nije teško omogućiti izlaznu opciju.

Msm dobrodošli u Evropu u više brzina.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:25 pm

Ne mislim da je EU u više brzina sama po sebi problem, možda je bar na kratke staze i rešenje, ali zavisi čega će se tačno ticati te brzine i čemu će služiti. Ono što je problem je što je suština Lindnerovog diskursa - jebite se, ne nameravamo da žrtvujemo svoje interese ni za koga. Ko oće da igra po našim pravilima, oće, ko neće, ne mora, eno tamo su vrata. Možda je to neka kratkoročna ekonomska racionalnost, ali politička, pa ni dugoročno gledano ekonomska, nije.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:54 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/kohl-widow-maike-kohl-richter-wanted-viktor-orban-not-angela-merkel-to-speak-at-memorial-service/?utm_content=buffer8afba&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Kinder Lad on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:56 pm

the systematic losers will turn against the European Union and the euro

Nikako. Mi znamo (a mislim da znaju i oni) da se upravo "sistemnski dobitnici" okreci protiv zajednickog interesa ili osmisljavanja istog


William Murderface wrote:Ne mislim da je EU u više brzina sama po sebi problem, možda je bar na kratke staze i rešenje, ali zavisi čega će se tačno ticati te brzine i čemu će služiti. Ono što je problem je što je suština Lindnerovog diskursa - jebite se, ne nameravamo da žrtvujemo svoje interese ni za koga. Ko oće da igra po našim pravilima, oće, ko neće, ne mora, eno tamo su vrata. Možda je to neka kratkoročna ekonomska racionalnost, ali politička, pa ni dugoročno gledano ekonomska, nije.

Buvalno je Merkel bolje od njega. Mislim, vreme za "ekonomsku racionalnost" je prosto isteklo.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:56 pm

Pa zna žena ko mu je pravi naslednik.

et Ostap


Last edited by William Murderface on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:59 pm; edited 2 times in total


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Daï Djakman Faré on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:58 pm

ostap bender wrote:http://www.politico.eu/article/kohl-widow-maike-kohl-richter-wanted-viktor-orban-not-angela-merkel-to-speak-at-memorial-service/?utm_content=buffer8afba&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
bbbrateu



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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:59 pm

Udovica mu 64-o godište! Jarac matori.


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Re: EU - what's next?

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