PC tiranija

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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:49 pm

U pravu si. I nepotrebno sam usao u diskusiju sasvim desetu od same teme. I to namerno nametnutu, da se ne bi pricalo o onome sa cime je tema i otvorena.


Last edited by Verterdegete on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by William Murderface on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:50 pm



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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:51 pm

Verterdegete wrote:Naravno da je postojala, i ti si toga (makar podsvesno) svestan. Upravo si ti pomenuo desni resantiman, sto implicira da je nesto prvo s leva doslo, a onda se desnicari pobunili. Jedina stvar koju su desnicari tu drugacije uradili, jeste sto su se otvoreno organizovali.

naravno da ne. nista nije bilo tu ranije do neke diverzifikacije polja koja se desila zato sto zene i tzv. manjine vise pisu. eto roman kao sto je sorcerer of the wildeeps je bio nezamisliv pre nekog vremena kao mainstream literatura. e sada ako ti imas problem sa pojedinim piscima i mislis da ih guraju izdavaci onda se organizujes protiv izdavaca i trazis da se obezbede nacini da se oni ne mesaju. ovo je kao da imas problem sa bankom a onda opsujes shloma.

inace jedini liberalni skandal je ta omraza na orson scott carda i ja bih prvi podrzao njegovo plansko stavljanje na listu iako je ludi mormon. moze da bude sta hoce ali je odlican pisac.


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:53 pm

Verterdegete wrote:U pravu si. I nepotrebno sam usao u diskusiju sasvim desetu od same teme. I to namerno nametnutu, da se ne bi pricalo o onome sa cime je tema i otvorena.

pa nije. bas ima veze. mislim mene ova tema dotice i ti ljudi sebe smatraju zrtvama politicke korektnosti.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:54 pm

ostap bender wrote:
Verterdegete wrote:U pravu si. I nepotrebno sam usao u diskusiju sasvim desetu od same teme. I to namerno nametnutu, da se ne bi pricalo o onome sa cime je tema i otvorena.

pa nije. bas ima veze. mislim mene ova tema dotice i ti ljudi sebe smatraju zrtvama politicke korektnosti.


Mogu oni sebe smatrati kako hoce, ali to ne znaci da je to tako.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by William Murderface on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:58 pm

William Murderface wrote:


Mislim da sam sad pogledao ovaj spot po prvi put u poslednjih 20 godina, i mogu da konstatujem da je nešto najsmešnije što sam ikad gledao.


Last edited by William Murderface on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:58 pm

slazemo se. e sada ako imas tu siroku upotrebu te sintagme (tiranija politicke korektnosti) onda imas problem.

to je isto kao sto se kao neka nasledjena pamet provlaci ta zabrana izrazavanja nacionalnih osecanja u sfrj (najcesce samo za svoju etnicku grupu) a da niko ne moze da to zaista utvrdi. mislim bilo je zabranjeno reci da bi klao ljude po nacionalnoj osnovi ili da oni smrde kao etnicka grupa. eto uzasa.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:11 am

Nemamo siroku upotrebu sintage, lepo sam stavio podnaslov. Koristimo izraz u onom znacenju koje je opsterkorisceno u javnosti.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:22 am

procitaj jos jednom sta si napisao.

ovde je teror politicke korektnost i 'zasto ciganin moze da spava u satoru a ja ne' i 'kako bi bilo da ja napravim paradu heteroseksualaca'.


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by паће on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:23 am

ostap bender wrote:
inace jedini liberalni skandal je ta omraza na orson scott carda i ja bih prvi podrzao njegovo plansko stavljanje na listu iako je ludi mormon. moze da bude sta hoce ali je odlican pisac.

И Агата Кристи је исто тако одличан писац док не прочиташ туце њених књига и сконташ како их пише, од чега прави заплет и онда већ можеш да се надмећеш са Поароом, па већ око десете књиге погодиш убицу и пре него што их стрпа све у велику собу.

То што је он мормон и што је писао шта је писао из неког свог убеђења, није много битно, нема добре пропаганде али то не смета писцу да поштено уради свој посао. Кард, међутим брка писање СФа и писање пропаганде. Већ након отприлике пете књиге нема коме није јасно да је свако поглавље само кулиса пред којом ће главни јунак, ака жртва, тог поглавља да буде турен у тзв. ситуацију и да у њој онда мора да донесе тзв. тешку моралну одлуку. То што је успевао да од таквих поглавља састави читаве романе само говори о његовом занатском умећу, али... ето, већ подоста његових књига чекају да их прочитам први пут, а оне што сам ставио на списак за други пут ће још дуже да чекају, ако дочекају. Пропаганда, јебига, што старији теже варим.

ostap bender wrote:to je isto kao sto se kao neka nasledjena pamet provlaci ta zabrana izrazavanja nacionalnih osecanja u sfrj (najcesce samo za svoju etnicku grupu) a da niko ne moze da to zaista utvrdi. mislim bilo je zabranjeno reci da bi klao ljude po nacionalnoj osnovi ili da oni smrde kao etnicka grupa. eto uzasa.

Ама није било забрањено него си могао да најебеш, ако те се сете. До те мере да су у сваким сватовима имали дежурног момка да склони стрица ако пијан запева "ој Војводо Синђелићу", да се комшије суседи не увреде. Или да неко не цинкари.

Или што сам морао да маневришем кад сам једном књигу комерцијалног садржаја сложио на ћирилици, и то тако што сам се правио луд. Наручилац исто није био луд да изричито тражи ово или оно писмо, а нико није био луд да наглас образлаже зашто да ово а зашто не оно, те је превагнуло моје "зашто да не, јел' забрањено, није, дакле".


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:27 am

pa ko je to najebao? mislim da ne trolujemo o sfrj ali te i takve anegdote su sve sto je ostalo od te uzasne cenzure i zabrane.

a ovo za karda se ne slazemo jebga.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:28 am

In an episode that speaks volumes about cultural institutions, ethnic sensitivity, and the power of protest in the digital age, the Museum of Fine Arts is hastily pulling back on an event that protesters labeled a latter-day form of racist minstrelsy.
MFA officials announced Tuesday they would recast “Kimono Wednesdays,” an attraction scheduled to run throughout July. It is extremely rare for the MFA to change exhibition plans in the wake of protests; it appears such action had not been taken for decades.


Created as a light summer distraction, “Kimono Wednesdays” invited visitors to “channel your inner Camille Monet” by donning museum-provided kimonos and posing for photos in front of Claude Monet’s “La Japonaise,” a painting of the artist’s wife wearing a kimono.


But the event quickly raised the hackles of protesters, who charged that the museum was perpetuating racist stereotypes by presenting Asian culture as quintessentially exotic.
At a celebration for departing MFA director Malcolm Rogers on June 24, a small group of protesters stood vigil. “This is appropriation, this is Orientalism,” read one sign. Rogers himself didn’t seem fazed, telling the Globe, “A little controversy never did any harm.”
“Asian-Americans in this country have a history of being mis- or underrepresented — they’re either completely absent from the media or only depicted as Kung Fu, exoticized, mystical, dragon ladies, prostitutes, or what have you,” said Christina Wang, 29, who held a sign that read, “Try on the kimono, learn what it’s like to be a racist imperialist !!!today!!!” She added: “This event that the MFA is putting on — asking the public to come don the kimono — is part of that legacy.”


On Tuesday afternoon, the MFA issued a statementthat read in part, “We apologize for offending any visitors.” Starting Wednesday, visitors will be able to touch, but not to wear, the kimonos, which will be presented with an educational talk until the event ends on July 29.
“It’s fair to say we were all quite surprised by the response,” said MFA deputy director Katie Getchell. “We thought it would be an educational opportunity for people to have direct encounters with works of art and understand different cultures and times better.”
The protests have been small by almost any standard, with only two protesters showing up last Wednesday (and one person “in support”) to hold signs as patrons tried on the kimonos and posed for pictures. (Suggested hashtag: #mfaBoston.)
Still, their presence made some visitors uncomfortable.


The museum initially stood its ground, presenting staffers with an internal memo defending the event and saying it would continue. “We don’t think this is racist,” states the memo, a copy of which was obtained by the Globe (and by protesters, who posted it online).
But if the protests were small on the ground, the core group of activists garnered wider support online, setting up a Facebook event page and a Tumblr account. And nowhere was the outrage greater than on the MFA’s own Facebook page, where commenters decried the event as “vilely racist” and called for the museum to apologize.
“Just stop,” said Ames Siyuan, 26, a protest organizer, who declared that the MFA can “do better.” “I don’t see how this is arts education. If anything, it perpetuates Halloween costumes of various races.”
Monet’s 1876 painting, which shows his wife, Camille, wearing a blazing red kimono, is thought to be the artist’s wry commentary on the craze for all things Japanese that swept Parisian art circles in the 1870s. Surrounded by fans, Camille posed in a blond wig, an intentional choice to highlight her European descent.


Art historians believe Monet was poking fun at his contemporaries and the movement known as “japonisme.” Today, however, some activists and scholars regard the 19th-century European fascination with Asia in a more sinister light, dubbing it “Orientalism,” a handmaiden of Imperialism whereby nonwestern cultures are reduced to a handful of mysterious traits — unknowable exotics and therefore less human.
“We should have a conversation about Orientalism and why it’s wrong,” said Siyuan. “They’re perpetuating Orientalism. They don’t give any context. They’re like, try this on, and that’s it. That’s not the way to do it.”


But if the protesters were certain of their message, their meaning was lost on some visitors.
“They’re obviously here to make a point,” said Katelin Hardy, who arrived at the MFA last week intending to try on a kimono. After speaking at length with the protesters, however, she decided to forgo the opportunity, even if she wasn’t “quite sure” about their objections.
“They said everyone was racist,” said Hardy. “Maybe there needs to be a little more context to it, but by the time I was done, we were leaving, and I just couldn’t.”
The kimonos, which are replicas of the garment in the painting, were commissioned by the Japanese broadcaster NHK to accompany “La Japonaise” for the recent traveling exhibit “Looking East”; visitors to museums in Tokyo, Kyoto, and the MFA’s sister museum in Nagoya could try them on as part of the exhibit.
“It was very successful in Japan, and we wanted to provide an opportunity to further the visitor experience in Boston,” said Getchell, who added that the MFA presented an educational talk on the event’s inaugural night. “People really appreciated the opportunity to see the kimonos, to try it on, to feel it, to appreciate its craftsmanship, and to think about what it would be like for a Parisian woman to have worn that at the time for her husband to paint her.”


But Siyuan and Wang say that things are more complicated in the United States, where Japanese and other Asians represent an often-overlooked minority. The event amounted to “cultural appropriation,” Siyuan said. “It’s white person after white person after white person saying this is not racist.”
In its statement, the MFA acknowledged the protesters’ concerns and hoped the programming change would further dialogue.
“We hope that it will be an opportunity to achieve our original goal to understand the artwork and the culture of its time,” said Getchell. “We didn’t intend to offend.”


Naravno, posle su dosle (zapravo prave) Japanke da im jebu majku...


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Mr.Pink on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:29 am

prva žrtva tiranije političke korektnosti - jugoslavija. dok su se pričali masni vicevi o crnogorcima, slovencima, muji i hasi sve bilo ok.


Last edited by Mr.Pink on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:35 am

uzas! ukinuli su kimono sredu.


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:37 am

Mr.Pink wrote:prva žrtva tiranije političke korektnosti - jugoslavija. dok su se pričali masni vicevi o crnogorcima, slovencima, muji i hasi sve bilo ok.


To i Zizek kaze.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Ointagru Unartan on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:38 am

Verterdegete wrote:Cekaj, hoces da kazes da savremeno obelezavanje Noci vestica, uz svu ikonografiju koja uz to ide, vredja osecanja nehriscana/nepagana?

Tamo je deo konzervativnih hriscana (otprilike cetvrtina svih born again evandjelista) i deo veoma religioznih hriscana (cetvrtina svih koji u crkvu idu najmanje jedanput nedeljno) protiv obelezavanja Noci Vestica, zbog paganstine poistovecene sa satanizmom.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/25282/roughly-americans-religious-objections-halloween.aspx

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_re.htm


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Mr.Pink on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:44 am

Verterdegete wrote:
Mr.Pink wrote:prva žrtva tiranije političke korektnosti - jugoslavija. dok su se pričali masni vicevi o crnogorcima, slovencima, muji i hasi sve bilo ok.


To i Zizek kaze.


ne, žižek bi rekao nešto tipa: bili smo na jebem ti mater i to je tako funkcionisalo.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by William Murderface on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:47 am

ostap bender wrote:uzas! ukinuli su kimono sredu.

Tiranija


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:47 am

Radagast wrote:


Tamo je deo konzervativnih hriscana (otprilike cetvrtina svih born again evandjelista) i deo veoma religioznih hriscana (cetvrtina svih koji u crkvu idu najmanje jedanput nedeljno) protiv obelezavanja Noci Vestica, zbog paganstine poistovecene sa satanizmom.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/25282/roughly-americans-religious-objections-halloween.aspx

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_re.htm


A vidis to je meni najjaci deo. Svetkovanje Noci vestica nije zabranjivano na zahtev hriscana, jer bi to bilo mesanje religije u javne poslove. A sad se zabranjuje jer se radi o mesanju religije u drzavu.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:49 am

Mr.Pink wrote:



ne, žižek bi rekao nešto tipa: bili smo na jebem ti mater i to je tako funkcionisalo.

Ne, ne. Bas je rekao to sto si ti rekao. Iliti "Drti dzoukz" su odrzale Jugoslaviju. Imas to na onom klipu sto sam okacio.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:51 am

ja se secam jedne prilike, kada sam bio bas mali, u kojoj su se pricali vicevi o muji i hasi u nekom vecem drustvu u kojem je bio i moj cale. iznenada je neko iz ekipe shvatio da je moj tata, jelte, 'mujo' i nastala je neka neprijatna situacija. ta neprijatnost nije bila izazvana nekom politickom korektnoscu ili strahom od posledica vec cinjenicom da je moj tata zapravo ono sto bi fernoux nazvao intelektualcem i da dolazi iz malog bosanskog mesta. drugim recima ti vicevi su bili besmisleni. i onda je goran njima rekao: samo nastavite ako se uvredim recicu vam.

to meni makar govori dve stvari:

prvo, dinamika tih viceva je bila takva da su ljudi znali da oni nisu tacni. mujo i haso su bili neke tacke u koje je projektovana  auto-identifikacija. zizek, na jednom drugom mestu kaze, da su mujo i haso bili neophodni da veruju u jugoslaviju za sve nas. oni su zapravo paradigmatski jugosloveni, naivni subjekti, koji veruju za sve nas u tu i takvu drzavu. svi su znali da je 'pravi' bosanac nesto drugo ali mujo i haso su nama svima trebali. takodje i mujo i haso cesto izrazavaju probleme 'obicnog' stanovnika sfrj i sam stos na kraju vica razotkriva nesto o funkcionisanju ideoloskog aparata vracajuci se onome ko ga prica.

uporedi to sa gomilom rasistickih posalica koje kruze internetom. one nisu smesne ne zato sto su odvratne vec zato sto nemaju neki tvist koji je neophodan za dobru salu i ravni su od pocetka do kraja.

drugo, ti vicevi bi prestali istog trenutka da je to moj cale zahtevao. i to je isto ok. vic je jedna jezicka igra a ljuti bosanac je ljuti bosanac.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by fernoux-h on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:58 am

Problem sa Žižekom je što je njegova kritika suviše načelna i što se iznosi uglavnom u kontekstu zapadnih društava. To se vidi i ovde. Zato nama treba neka žižekijanska kritika za ove naše prostore.

Bilo tvista ili ne (moraćemo da se senzibilišemo i za tvist sad) ovde u tome uopšte nije reč već o toj otuđujućoj distanci koja se uvodi među ljude. Žižek je spomenuo vrlo specifične stereotipske predstave što je tebi dalo povod da ponoviš ovo što si pisao i na PPP. Ali uzmi bilo koji drugi stereotip i nema 'tvista' (znam, ako nema 'tvista' onda je to već traumatično za nas), a sve što je rekao Žižek i dalje važi. Mislim on je ovde dao ovaj primer iz JU, ali svi dobro znamo da je drugde pisao upravo o tim rasističkim pošalicama "bez tvista" sa kojima ti imaš problem.


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Re: PC tiranija

Post by Guest on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:59 am

ostap bender wrote:
prvo, dinamika tih viceva je bila takva da su ljudi znali da oni nisu tacni. mujo i haso su bili neke tacke u koje je projektovana  auto-identifikacija. zizek, na jednom drugom mestu kaze, da su mujo i haso bili neophodni da veruju u jugoslaviju za sve nas. oni su zapravo paradigmatski jugosloveni, naivni subjekti, koji veruju za sve nas u tu i takvu drzavu. svi su znali da je 'pravi' bosanac nesto drugo ali mujo i haso su nama svima trebali. takodje i mujo i haso cesto izrazavaju probleme 'obicnog' stanovnika sfrj i sam stos na kraju vica razotkriva nesto o funkcionisanju ideoloskog aparata vracajuci se onome ko ga prica.


Sto nas dovodi do pitanja, zasto bi se tvoj otac onda uopste i ljutio na viceve o Muji i Hasi? Uzgred receno, ti vicevi su upravo i nastali u Bosni.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:19 am

pa i nije se naljutio, zar ne? ali da je neko pricao da su bosanci ovakvi ili onakvi ili da je pricao kako bosanke smrde (poput onog zaista rasistickog i glupog unproforofskog vica - koji su posle prihvatili skinsi - po kom je sejla napravila rad) verovatno mu ne bi bilo svejedno. s druge strane u toj i takvoj jugoslaviji on se osecao dovoljno emancipovano da ne izbegava potencijalni sukob. ukoliko mu nesto smeta, on bi rekao.

@fernoux: pa ovo valjda samo govori o razlici izmedju tih i ovih jugo viceva. ne znam da je pricao vicevima bez tvista. mislim ne verujem da je onda uopste i vic. na primer onaj cuveni cut the balls naizgled se sprda sa silovanjem ali zapravo je toliko udaljen od svoje teme, i njoj prilazi iz pozicije zrtve, da je zaista smesan. s druge strane napisati: osetim nesto smrdi kad ono camuga nije smesno. vicevi o ciganima nisu uglavnom smesni (iako ima i brilijantnih).


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: PC tiranija

Post by bruno sulak on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:20 am

inace izvinjavam se sto se ponavljam pa cu vas ostaviti da nastavite esencijalnu borbu za slikanje u kimonu i masakriranju bundeva po skolama. mahmud abdul rauf se odjavljuje.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.

Re: PC tiranija

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