UK - Politika i društvo

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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Tue May 23, 2017 11:40 pm



Ne vidim kako to pomaže, ali ajd.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Filipenko on Tue May 23, 2017 11:40 pm

Koliki je bilans na kraju ovih etnički motivisanih incidenata? Šta je bilo sa incidentima van Mančestera, navodno istovremenim? Pominjali ste Viktorija stanicu i slično, tamo izgleda nije bilo ničega? Lažne uzbune?
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Filipenko on Tue May 23, 2017 11:40 pm

Hubert de Montmirail wrote:

Ne vidim kako to pomaže, ali ajd.


Ponašaju se poput Slobodana Miloševića.

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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Zuper on Tue May 23, 2017 11:47 pm

Hubert de Montmirail wrote:

Ne vidim kako to pomaže, ali ajd.

Pomaze njoj u kampanji.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Tue May 23, 2017 11:48 pm

Nisam baš ni u to siguran. Ona je PM a bila je i Home Secretary od 2010. Ako škripi, škripi zbog nje.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Filipenko on Tue May 23, 2017 11:59 pm

Da, ali ko će se setiti šta je tada bilo. Sada je gospodarica-zaštitnica.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Wed May 24, 2017 12:07 am

Hubert de Montmirail wrote:Da li je taj Salman Abedi domaći?




Manchester Arena attacker named by police as Salman Ramadan Abedi

Manchester police say 22-year-old was responsible for suicide attack that killed 22 and injured 59 at Ariana Grande concert

Tuesday 23 May 2017 19.54 BST

The man who murdered 22 people and injured 59 others has been named as Salman Ramadan Abedi, a Mancunian of Libyan descent.

Police confirmed the 22-year-old’s identity after officials in the United States passed it to news reporters, apparently against the wishes of the British police and security services.

Abedi was known to the security services but was not part of any active investigation or regarded as a high risk. He was viewed as a peripheral figure in much the same way as the Westminister attacker, Khalid Masood.


The police and security services are trying to establish whether he worked alone or was part of a wider network that helped him with the bomb. Although Islamic State has claimed responsibility, the police have found no evidence to support this.

Even before Abedi was named, several members of south Manchester’s Libyan community wondered whether the suicide bomber was one of their own: perhaps one of the young men who had fought in Libya during the 2011 revolution, some of whom came home traumatised and angry.

But none appear to have suspected that British-born Abedi a slightly withdrawn, devout young man, always respectful to his elders – would become a mass murderer.

“Salman? I’m astonished by this,” one member of Manchester’s Libyan community told the Guardian. “He was such a quiet boy, always very respectful towards me. His brother Ismail is outgoing, but Salman was very quiet. He is such an unlikely person to have done this.”

Salman and his brother Ismail worshipped at Didsbury mosque, where their father, who is known as Abu Ismail within the community, is a well-known figure. “He used to do the five and call the adhan. He has an absolutely beautiful voice. And his boys learned the Qur’an by heart.

Abu Ismail will be terribly distraught. He was always very confrontational with jihadi ideology, and this Isis thing isn’t even jihad, it’s criminality. The family will be devastated.”

Abu Ismail Abedi, who worked as an odd-job man in Manchester, is thought to be in Tripoli. His wife, Samia, is thought to be in Manchester. The couple are believed to have another son, Hashem, and a daughter, Jomana.

“Abu Ismail comes and goes between here and there,” the family friend said. “I can’t believe [Salman Abedi] would have been radicalised in Tripoli. All those types have been driven out of the city. It must have happened here.

“But what was he doing, murdering all those people. There must have been somebody influencing him. It’s terrible. He was off his head.”

But others had a different recollection. Mohammed Saeed, the imam of Didsbury Mosque and Islamic Centre, said Salman Abedi had looked at him “with hate” after he gave a sermon criticising Isis and Ansar al-Sharia in Libya.

Saeed said he gave a strong sermon against terrorism and about the sanctity of life in 2015. He said 2,000 members of the mosque were with him; a small number were not; and a few signed a petition criticising him.

“Salman showed me a face of hate after that sermon,” he said. “He was showing me hatred.”

Saeed said a friend was so worried that he got his adult children to sit beside Salman Amedi in case he attacked the imam.

Saeed, who was born in Libya and came to the UK in 1980, said he was worried he would be labelled a “snitch”. But he said: “I have to speak out to protect our community, to protect innocent people.”

Didsbury mosque, he said, was a moderate place that welcomed Muslims from Arabia, Africa, Asia and Europe. It also had new converts and held an open day once a week for non-Muslims to learn more about the mosque.

However, there were other problems in the Manchester Libyan community.

Abdalraouf Abdallah, 24, was jailed for nine and a half years last year after being convicted of funding terrorism and preparing acts of terrorism. Abdallah had helped a number of men travel to Syria so they could fight in the civil war. He was unable to travel himself because he is paralysed from the waist down after being shot during the Libyan revolution.

One of the people he helped to send to Syria was Stephen Gray, who had converted to Islam after leaving the air force in 2004. He was jailed for nine years after pleading guilty to terrorist offences.

The family friend said Abedi and Abdallah knew each other: “All the Libyan lads in Manchester know each other”. That relationship will come under renewed scrutiny by the police and MI5.

Isis’s claim of responsibility for Abedi’s crime was posted in Arabic and English on channels that the group uses on the encrypted Telegram instant messaging service.

The English version said the bombing in the “shameless” concert arena was “in revenge for Allah’s religion, in an endeavour to terrorize the [infidels], and in response to their transgressions against the lands of the Muslims”.

Earlier, armed police sealed off Elsmore Road, a street in the Fallowfield area of south Manchester, and then carried out a controlled explosion at the terraced house where Abedi lived.

Officers also searched the home of his brother Ismail in the Chorlton area of south Manchester. They arrested a 23-year-old man near an address where the family had previously lived, prompting speculation that Ismail Abedi had been detained.

A police helicopter hovered over Elsmore Road, and a fire engine was parked nearby as police searched the property where they had carried out the controlled explosion, apparently to blow off the front door.

Tina Ward, 32, who lives on the same road as the raided house, said she came out of her home at around midday to see about 30 armed police entering the front garden of that house. She said it was home to a large Asian family with sons.

“They seem to be quiet,” she said. “I’ve been in my house 10 years and they’ve been there longer than me.”

Farazana Kosur said she and her children had lived on Thelwall Ave, around the corner from the house that was raided on Elesmore Rd, for four years. She knew the family in the house, she said, though not very well.

The family had sons in their 20s, and a younger son and daughter, and the older sons would wear religious dress and attend a mosque. The mother was a “very nice woman” and taught Kosur’s friend’s daughter to read the Qur’an.

“It’s terrible,” she said. “I hate the bombing and everybody is scared. It’s a nice area. We’ve had no problems.”

On Elsmore Road there was also some indication that Abedi was not always quiet and respectful. One neighbour said that when he spoke to him about parking his car so that others could not exit their drives, “all I got was this”, and he held up his middle finger.

There were also reports that in recent weeks he had taken to chanting Islamic verses loudly in the street.

Meanwhile, one former school friend was reported to have said that the last time he saw Abedi he had been a Manchester United fan who rarely discussed his faith. “He always had a bit of an attitude problem. I can’t say I really liked the man.”
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Filipenko on Wed May 24, 2017 12:27 am

Navijač Junajteda. Zašto nisam iznenađen? Murinjo je dakle odgovoran, ove sezone opet ispuš za Ligu Šampiona, uprkos stotina potrošenih miliona po prelaznom roku svake godine u više navrata...
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Wed May 24, 2017 10:41 am

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/23/british-intelligence-warned-tony-blair-of-manchester-like-terrorism-if-the-west-invaded-iraq/

...

On February 10, 2003, one month before the war began, the U.K.’s Joint Intelligence Committee — the key advisory body for the British Prime Minister on intelligence matters — issued a white paper titled “International Terrorism: War With Iraq.”

It began:
The threat from Al Qaida will increase at the onset of any military action against Iraq. They will target Coalition forces and other Western interests in the Middle East. Attacks against Western interests elsewhere are also likely, especially in the US and UK, for maximum impact. The worldwide threat from other Islamist terrorist groups and individuals will increase significantly.

And it concluded much the same way:
Al Qaida and associated groups will continue to represent by far the greatest terrorist threat to Western interests, and that threat will be heightened by military action against Iraq. The broader threat from Islamist terrorists will also increase in the event of war, reflecting intensified anti-US/anti-Western sentiment in the Muslim world, including among Muslim communities in the West. [emphasis added in both cases]

The same report concluded that Saddam Hussein’s Iraq “would aspire to conduct terrorist attacks against Coalition interests” only in the event of an invasion. Moreover, “authoritative reporting suggests that Iraqi Intelligence (DGI) has little reach or [terrorism] capability outside Iraq.”

Specifically regarding WMD terrorism, the JIC elsewhere judged that Iraq “would be unlikely to undertake or sponsor such terrorist attacks,” that the threat of it if Iraq were not invaded was “slight,” and that there was no “credible evidence of covert transfers of WMD-related technology and expertise to terrorist groups.”

Tony Blair’s case for war, as most clearly expressed in his March 18, 2003 remarks in the House of Commons, essentially turned all of this on its head. The possibility, Blair said, of terrorist groups obtaining WMD from a state like Iraq was “a real and present danger to Britain and its national security.”

“The real problem,” Blair proclaimed, “is that, underneath, people dispute that Iraq is a threat, dispute the link between terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, and dispute, in other words, the whole basis of our assertion that the two together constitute a fundamental assault on our way of life.” Blair did not mention that the people disputing this included his own intelligence services.

Then Tam Dalyell, a Labor MP from Scotland, asked Blair this key question:What could be more calculated to act as a recruiting sergeant for a young generation throughout the Islamic and Arab world than putting 600 cruise missiles — or whatever it is — on to Baghdad and Iraq?”

Blair did not reveal the explicit warnings from the JIC that exactly this would happen. No, he told Dalyell, “Unless we take action against [Al Qaeda], they will grow. That is why we should act.” Terrorist organizations wouldn’t be motivated, as the JIC had told him, by an invasion of Iraq, because their true motivation was that “they detest the freedom, democracy and tolerance that are the hallmarks of our way of life.”

Blair’s stunningly fraudulent case for war carried the day, 412-149. The current British Prime Minister Theresa May, then a Conservative front bencher, voted for it. Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn voted against.

Then exactly what the JIC had predicted occurred.
...

In her testimony before the Chilcot inquiry, Baroness Eliza Manningham-Buller, head of MI5 at the time of the Iraq invasion, explained all of this:
Our involvement in Iraq radicalized, for want of a better word … a few among a generation … [who] saw our involvement in Iraq, on top of our involvement in Afghanistan, as being an attack on Islam.
An increasing number of British-born individuals … were attracted to the ideology of Usama Bin Laden and saw the West’s activities in Iraq and Afghanistan as threatening their fellow religionists and the Muslim world.

If British officials had read the JIC’s warnings, Manningham-Buller said, they could “have had no doubt” that this was likely to happen.

So did Blair read the intelligence, specifically the February 2003 paper on international terrorism?
He absolutely was aware of it, Blair told the inquiry, “but I took the view then and take the same view now that to have backed down because of the threat of terrorism would be completely wrong.”

But of course this was just another brazen misrepresentation by Blair. He had not taken “the view then,” at least in public, that invading Iraq would increase the risk that Britons would die in terrorist attacks, but it would be somehow worth it. Instead he had claimed that they would be at greater risk without a war, because if left alone Saddam Hussein would enable WMD-armed terrorism.

Asked how she saw this perspective, Manningham-Buller told the inquiry that “It is a hypothetical theory. It certainly wasn’t of concern in either the short-term or the medium-term to my colleagues and myself.”

In the end, the most plausible explanation of Blair’s motivation is simply that he was willing to sacrifice the lives of British citizens so that the U.S. could continue running the world with the U.K. holding its coat. Richard Shultz, a professor of international politics at Tufts who’s long been a key national security state intellectual, wrote in 2004 that “A very senior [Special Operations Forces] officer who had served on the Joint Staff in the 1990s told me that more than once he heard terrorist strikes characterized as ‘a small price to pay for being a superpower.’”

The victims of the Manchester bombing, among them an 8-year-old girl, are that small price.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Wed May 24, 2017 11:00 am

Znači nije čista glupost, nego cinizam.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Wed May 24, 2017 11:16 am



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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by ostap bender on Wed May 24, 2017 11:45 am

sun divlja. informer da mu pozavidi.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Wed May 24, 2017 12:30 pm

Jbg, Bler i njegov ministar Kuk, tvorac etičke spoljne politike, su morali da pokažu da je Mejdžorov izolacionizam stvar prošlosti.

Sa druge strane, zar nije jači bio case za intervenciju u Iraku nego u SRJ?


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Wed May 24, 2017 1:29 pm

nije se u iraku tih godina dešavalo nešto posebno, sadamova drndanja sa kurdima su imala neku stalnu liniju nasilja ali je ona bila mnogo jača krajem 80ih i tokom 90ih nego od dolaska gwb na vlast. 

priroda i nastanak teme kosova i teme iraka su različiti, i način "prodaje" priče javnosti je bio drugačiji. u iraku nije bilo kolona izbeglica i slika mrtvih i spaljenih kuća da kreiraju javno mnjenje, tu je trebao 1 kolin pauel da pravi grafički prikaz sadamovog "oružja za masovno uništenje", a to nije posebno efektivno.

project for new american century i ostale neokon grupe su kreirale viziju american global leadership u koju se irak sa sadamom nikako nije mogao spakovati, plus percepcija "nezavršenog posla", gde je kosovo - kao "uspešno završeni posao" - imalo svoju ulogu u građenju samopouzdanja u svoj topuz.


bler je tužni sidekick, neko ko je etablirao 51st state ulogu za uk.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by No Country on Wed May 24, 2017 4:32 pm

Ирак је био упакован са 9-11, Косово је било намах заборављено "хуманитарно бомбардовање". Ирак је касније постао и национална траума, и то понешто независно од тероризма, ИС-а и сл. Више кроз ПТСД повратника. Из америчког угла, Ирак и Косово ни по чему не могу да се пореде, а поготову не по габариту.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by паће on Wed May 24, 2017 4:59 pm

No Country wrote:Ирак је био упакован са 9-11, Косово је било намах заборављено "хуманитарно бомбардовање". Ирак је касније постао и национална траума, и то понешто независно од тероризма, ИС-а и сл. Више кроз ПТСД повратника. Из америчког угла, Ирак и Косово ни по чему не могу да се пореде, а поготову не по габариту.

Међу те габарите уврстити и надморску висину.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Zuper on Thu May 25, 2017 1:41 pm

"Outraged" UK Stops Sharing Attack Information With US Due To Media Leaks



"The BBC reported that U.K. officials were furious about a story in the New York Times on Wednesday that included photos of the crime scene. The story didn’t cite a source, and the U.K. government had no comment on the piece."



The pictures published by the New York Times included remains of the bomb and of the rucksack carried by the suicide bomber, and showed blood stains amid the wreckage. "I think it's pretty disgusting," said Scott Lightfoot, a Manchester resident, speaking outside a train station in the city. He criticized media for publishing such material.
 
"Who's leaking it? Where's it coming from? This is British intelligence at the end of the day, people shouldn't be finding out about this."
 
The Financial Times reported that such images are available across a restricted-access encrypted special international database used by government ordnance and explosives experts in about 20 countries allied with Britain. It said the database was built around a longstanding U.S.-British system.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by паће on Thu May 25, 2017 1:43 pm



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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Zuper on Thu May 25, 2017 11:30 pm

CONSERVATIVE 43%, LABOUR 38% IN YOUGOV/TIMES POLL
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Thu May 25, 2017 11:36 pm

Tanji se vođstvo.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Kinder Lad on Thu May 25, 2017 11:40 pm

Bome, ako i ostali pollovi pokazuju slično to je već frka za Cons


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Thu May 25, 2017 11:41 pm

Europe Elects‏ @EuropeElects  

UK: If tonight's YouGov poll was right w/ 38%, it would be #Labour's best result since Blair 2001. #GE2017

UK: 59% of 18-24 yr old voters would vote Labour (S&D) now (YouGov poll). #GE2017

UK: 67% of 65+ yr old voters would vote Conservative (ECR) now (YouGov poll). #GE2017


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Thu May 25, 2017 11:41 pm

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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Thu May 25, 2017 11:42 pm

opet, mnogo je bitno kako je to raspoređeno geografski. apsolutno je nebitno da li u Basildonu ima + ili - 500 glasača laburista.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Thu May 25, 2017 11:44 pm

do juče, kada je istekao rok, registrovalo se za glasanje oko 500k novih birača


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

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