UK - Politika i društvo

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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Blind Lime Pie on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:04 pm

Bitka kod Azinkura bila u XIX veku? zanimljivo


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Filipenko on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:14 pm

Kasno Pržun na Normandiju stiže...
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:22 pm

Svejedno. Nije bitan vek, vec princip za koji se autorka zalaze.


Uzgred receno, imam tu i neke napomene. Bitka za Isandlvanu nije nikakav last stand, vec britanska kampanja da se zaustavi izrazito agresivna ekspanzija Zulua na racun ostalih crnackih plemena. Zului su im napravili zasedu, i oni su logicno morali da se brane. Gordon je trebao da prepusti ceo grad (i posledicno celu dolinu Nila) ondasnjoj verziji ISISa pretpostavljam. A za Denkerk mi je tek najjace. Sta su trebali da rade? Da predaju pola miliona vojnika Hitleru?
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:23 pm

Za koju se tezu autorka zalaže?


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:25 pm

Ne znam o cemu pricas.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:27 pm

Ni ja ne znam o čemu ti pričaš, pa smo na istom

Čini mi se da nisi baš najbolje razumeo tekst.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Blind Lime Pie on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:27 pm

Pržun wrote:Svejedno. Nije bitan vek, vec princip za koji se autorka zalaze.

William Murderface wrote:Za koju se tezu autorka zalaže?

Pržun wrote:Ne znam o cemu pricas.



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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:28 pm

et Pržun

A napisao si "princip za koji se autorka zalaže". Ja te pitam - za koji se princip, po tebi, autorka zalaže?

edit: Photino brži


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:30 pm

Pržun wrote:Nije bitan vek, vec princip za koji se autorka zalaze.



William Murderface wrote:Za koju se tezu autorka zalaže?


Dakle, ne razumem o cemu pricas. A i necemo voditi razgovor u kome je moram paralelno da se nadgornjavam sa dvojcem provokatora i inspektora. Sa hajkicama sa zavrsili.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by bela maca on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:42 pm

nisu te ni vodom ponudili!
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:49 pm



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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Kinder Lad on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:14 pm

Gargantua wrote:Ouch



Fintan O’Toole: Brexit resurrects the English cult of heroic failure

Move to leave the EU feeds into the British taste for celebrating disasters as triumphs






Tue, Jan 24, 2017, 04:00 Updated: about 23 hours ago
Fintan O'Toole  


 
Listening to Theresa May’s big Brexit speech last week, I remembered that the English have a taste for heroic failure. Their favourite poem, Rudyard Kipling’s If, says that triumph and disaster are the same thing. It also enjoins the English to “lose, and start again at your beginnings/And never breathe a word about your loss.”

Losing everything – even life itself – and not whining about it is the English ideal of heroism. And I do wonder if this inherited ideal is not playing itself out in Brexit.

While everyone else is screaming “Stop! You’re headed for disaster,” the stiff lips part just enough to say, “Ah, but we will treat it as a triumph and never breathe a word about our loss.”

Most of the modern English heroes, after all, are complete screw-ups. In her very entertaining and insightful book, Heroic Failure and the British, the historian Stephanie Barczewski says the exploits that have loomed largest in English consciousness since the 19th century are retreats or disasters: the Charge of the Light Brigade, the doomed Franklin expedition to find the Northwest Passage, “Scott of the Antarctic”, the “last stand” against the Zulus at Isandlwana, Gordon of Khartoum, the Somme, the flight from Dunkirk.

This culture of heroic failure she defines as “a conscious sense of celebration of the striving for an object that was not attained”.

When everything falls apart




It requires, one might add, an ability not to feel sorry for oneself when everything falls apart.

The essence of English heroic failure is Capt Scott reflecting on his fast-approaching death at the Antarctic: “We took risks, we knew we took them. Things have come out against us, and therefore we have no cause for complaint, but bow to the will of Providence, determined still to do our best to the last.”

I bet Boris Johnson has these lines in his back pocket for use when the messianic hopes of Brexit go down in flames.

Now, it must be admitted that there is something lovable in this English capacity to embrace disaster. It is, for one thing, highly creative. It transforms ugly facts into beautiful fantasies.

The charge of the Light Brigade was hideous idiocy. At the battle of Balaclava in the Crimean war in October 1854, the British cavalry charged, sabres aloft, at the Russian artillery, down a long valley that was also flanked by more Russian guns that could fire on them from above.

It was pure suicidal butchery: survivors wrote things like “never was such murder ordered”. But the English back home loved it. The prime minister Lord Palmerston described it as “glorious” and Alfred Tennyson wrote a poem that every schoolboy, even of my generation in republican Ireland, knew: “Theirs not to make reply,/ Theirs not to reason why,/ Theirs but to do and die.” Like the English working-class being led by their contemporary Tory blimps to charge the European artillery.

So what if they get mauled? It will be glorious – and shame on anyone who asks the reason why.

The problem, however, is that the original English cult of heroic failure was, paradoxically, a symptom of British power.

As Barczewski astutely notes: “Heroic failure . . . neither effected nor engendered decline; on the contrary it arose from British power and dominance, and from the need to provide alternative narratives that distracted from its real-life exploitative and violent aspects.”

Zombie cult




The English could afford to celebrate glorious failure because they were actually very successful – the myths of suffering and endurance covered up the truth that it was mostly other people who had to endure the suffering.

But the return to heroic failure in the psychology of Brexit is a perfect example of a mythic mindset surviving long after it has ceased to be useful.

The English are no longer dominant and powerful.They are a mid-sized, fairly average western European nation. They can’t afford to indulge their inherited tastes for grandiose screw-ups. But they still have a sweet tooth for these empty calories.

Brexit is a perfect vehicle for this zombie cult. It fuses three of the archetypes of heroic English failure.

There is the last stand, exemplified by Gen George Gordon at Khartoum, another fiasco that quickly became a byword for heroism in the face of inevitable disaster: Brexit is imperial England’s last last stand.

There is the suicidal cavalry charge: May hilariously threatened Europe that if it does not play nice, she and Boris will destroy its economic artillery with their flashing sabres.

And there is the doomed expedition into terra incognita to find a promised land. This kind of heroic failure is exemplified by Sir John Franklin’s fatal search for the Northwest Passage in the 1840s.

The gods of history were surely sending a message when, just three months after the Brexit vote, they allowed Franklin’s ship, HMS Terror, to be found at the bottom of an Arctic bay.

Yet, unheeding of this omen, HMS Brexit sets sail into uncharted waters, confident of finding the, as yet undiscovered, passage to the promised land where you can always have more cake even when you’ve eaten it.

How the nation will weep with pride when some future explorers discover its ghostly remains in the icy depths of reality.

Nek im neko javi gde se stize tim putem...


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:18 pm

przune, jel si citao flesmena?


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Guest on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:51 pm

Nisam imao zadovoljstvo.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:19 pm

Britain Declines

Oliver Miles 26 January 2017


In the last month Theresa May has given striking evidence of a tilt towards Binyamin Netanyahu and Israel. On 29 December, her spokesman sharply criticised a major speech by John Kerry, who was signing off after years of labouring for an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. He had told some home truths about the Netanyahu government, describing the current coalition as the most right-wing in Israeli history, with an agenda driven by its most extreme elements. Asked by the BBC whether he was surprised by May’s reaction, Kerry said: ‘What I expressed in the speech has been the policy of Great Britain for a long period of time … An honest answer is yes.’

At the beginning of January, al-Jazeera published recordings of a plot involving Shai Masot, an official of the Israeli ministry of strategic affairs described as a political adviser to the Israeli embassy in London (not listed as a diplomat, and therefore presumably not having diplomatic immunity), and Maria Strizzolo, chief of staff to the pro-Israeli MP Robert Halfon. They discussed ‘taking down’ the pro-Palestinian MP and Foreign Office minister Alan Duncan. Other plans included a move against Crispin Blunt MP, chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, and the establishment of new pro-Israel lobby groups. There was mention of a million pound budget for subsidising the Labour Friends of Israel.

The Israeli ambassador apologised and said Masot would be ‘ending his term shortly’. The apology was accepted and there has been no further investigation of the case, let alone criticism of the Israeli government, despite calls from a number of senior MPs including Christopher Soames, Emily Thornberry and Alex Salmond, who commented: ‘Boris Johnson must right now revoke Mr Masot’s diplomatic status and remove him from the country as would most certainly have happened had the circumstances been reversed. Perhaps then the Israeli government representatives will regard the foreign secretary as less of a fool’ (Masot was recorded describing Johnson as an idiot).

On 15 January, the French government held a one-day conference on Middle East peace which was attended by about seventy states. It produced a long and boring joint declaration reaffirming the need for a negotiated two-state solution, Palestine’s right to statehood, Israel’s security needs etc etc. The importance of the coference was symbolic. It could have called for recognition of Palestine’s statehood, but was too timid. Vincent Fean, a former consul general in Jerusalem (Britain’s de facto ambassador to the Palestinian Territories), reiterated the case for recognition in the Guardian recently and commended a petition asking the British government to recognise Palestine; signing it is an opportunity to demonstrate support for the two-state solution to which everyone (including the Israeli government) pays at least lip service.

In an equally symbolic move, Britain participated only as an observer and declined to sign the joint declaration. The FCO stated that it had reservations about a conference in which the two main parties, Israel and Palestine, were not present, about the timing – days before Donald Trump took over as president – and about the opposition of Israel. Netanyahu described the conference as ‘rigged by the Palestinians … It’s a last gasp of the past before the future sets in.’ The following day the UK blocked a meeting of EU foreign ministers from adopting the Paris statement.


‘The US will be the ultimate guarantor of any agreement,’ the FCO statement said. That is new. Middle East peace has always been pre-eminently a UN issue. The US has played the lead role in looking for agreement, but has repeatedly fallen at the last fence under Israeli pressure.

Early in Trump’s campaign he said he would be a neutral negotiator in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process and claimed to support a two-state solution. There is evidence that he has changed his mind: his choice of a US ambassador to Israel who is to the right even of Netanyahu (he has called Obama a ‘blatant anti-Semite’), his promise to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, his own involvement and that of some of his team with the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories which the Security Council has just reaffirmed to be illegal.

The new doctrine that ‘the US will be the ultimate guarantor of any agreement’ needn’t be limited to the Middle East. It implies that Britain is happy to accept subordinate status, which is scarcely compatible with permanent membership of the Security Council. It could be applied to other disputes in which the US has played a major role, such as Northern Ireland. Indeed there are not many international disputes in which the US has not played a major role. Right now its application might seem particularly problematic, with Trump declaring that Nato is obsolete – though ‘very important’ to him.

The veteran Israeli peacenik and columnist Uri Avnery wrote immediately after the US election that he didn’t know how Trump would turn out and tended to believe that Trump didn’t either. ‘I think that we are in for four years of uncertainty. Faced with a problem he knows nothing about, he will act according to his mood of the moment. He will take advice from nobody, and nobody will know in advance what will be his decision.’ A strange moment for Britain to be volunteering for the role of poodle.

Da je živ Ajri Krou rekao bi da je Austro-ugarska Britanija nesposobna da vodi spoljnu politiku mimo Nemačke SAD. 
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:25 pm



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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:24 pm

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2016-2017/0132/cbill_2016-20170132_en_2.htm#l1g1



A BILL TO

Confer power on the Prime Minister to notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU.

Be it enacted by the Queen’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:—

1  Power to notify withdrawal from the EU

(1) The Prime Minister may notify, under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union, the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the EU.
(2)This section has effect despite any provision made by or under the European Communities Act 1972 or any other enactment.


2  Short title

This Act may be cited as the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Act 2017.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Blind Lime Pie on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:32 pm

Lords Spiritual and Temporal




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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Kinder Lad on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:44 pm

Gargantua wrote:



Britain Declines



Oliver Miles 26 January 2017


In the last month Theresa May has given striking evidence of a tilt towards Binyamin Netanyahu and Israel. On 29 December, her spokesman sharply criticised a major speech by John Kerry, who was signing off after years of labouring for an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. He had told some home truths about the Netanyahu government, describing the current coalition as the most right-wing in Israeli history, with an agenda driven by its most extreme elements. Asked by the BBC whether he was surprised by May’s reaction, Kerry said: ‘What I expressed in the speech has been the policy of Great Britain for a long period of time … An honest answer is yes.’

At the beginning of January, al-Jazeera published recordings of a plot involving Shai Masot, an official of the Israeli ministry of strategic affairs described as a political adviser to the Israeli embassy in London (not listed as a diplomat, and therefore presumably not having diplomatic immunity), and Maria Strizzolo, chief of staff to the pro-Israeli MP Robert Halfon. They discussed ‘taking down’ the pro-Palestinian MP and Foreign Office minister Alan Duncan. Other plans included a move against Crispin Blunt MP, chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, and the establishment of new pro-Israel lobby groups. There was mention of a million pound budget for subsidising the Labour Friends of Israel.

The Israeli ambassador apologised and said Masot would be ‘ending his term shortly’. The apology was accepted and there has been no further investigation of the case, let alone criticism of the Israeli government, despite calls from a number of senior MPs including Christopher Soames, Emily Thornberry and Alex Salmond, who commented: ‘Boris Johnson must right now revoke Mr Masot’s diplomatic status and remove him from the country as would most certainly have happened had the circumstances been reversed. Perhaps then the Israeli government representatives will regard the foreign secretary as less of a fool’ (Masot was recorded describing Johnson as an idiot).

On 15 January, the French government held a one-day conference on Middle East peace which was attended by about seventy states. It produced a long and boring joint declaration reaffirming the need for a negotiated two-state solution, Palestine’s right to statehood, Israel’s security needs etc etc. The importance of the coference was symbolic. It could have called for recognition of Palestine’s statehood, but was too timid. Vincent Fean, a former consul general in Jerusalem (Britain’s de facto ambassador to the Palestinian Territories), reiterated the case for recognition in the Guardian recently and commended a petition asking the British government to recognise Palestine; signing it is an opportunity to demonstrate support for the two-state solution to which everyone (including the Israeli government) pays at least lip service.

In an equally symbolic move, Britain participated only as an observer and declined to sign the joint declaration. The FCO stated that it had reservations about a conference in which the two main parties, Israel and Palestine, were not present, about the timing – days before Donald Trump took over as president – and about the opposition of Israel. Netanyahu described the conference as ‘rigged by the Palestinians … It’s a last gasp of the past before the future sets in.’ The following day the UK blocked a meeting of EU foreign ministers from adopting the Paris statement.


‘The US will be the ultimate guarantor of any agreement,’ the FCO statement said. That is new. Middle East peace has always been pre-eminently a UN issue. The US has played the lead role in looking for agreement, but has repeatedly fallen at the last fence under Israeli pressure.

Early in Trump’s campaign he said he would be a neutral negotiator in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process and claimed to support a two-state solution. There is evidence that he has changed his mind: his choice of a US ambassador to Israel who is to the right even of Netanyahu (he has called Obama a ‘blatant anti-Semite’), his promise to move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, his own involvement and that of some of his team with the Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories which the Security Council has just reaffirmed to be illegal.

The new doctrine that ‘the US will be the ultimate guarantor of any agreement’ needn’t be limited to the Middle East. It implies that Britain is happy to accept subordinate status, which is scarcely compatible with permanent membership of the Security Council. It could be applied to other disputes in which the US has played a major role, such as Northern Ireland. Indeed there are not many international disputes in which the US has not played a major role. Right now its application might seem particularly problematic, with Trump declaring that Nato is obsolete – though ‘very important’ to him.

The veteran Israeli peacenik and columnist Uri Avnery wrote immediately after the US election that he didn’t know how Trump would turn out and tended to believe that Trump didn’t either. ‘I think that we are in for four years of uncertainty. Faced with a problem he knows nothing about, he will act according to his mood of the moment. He will take advice from nobody, and nobody will know in advance what will be his decision.’ A strange moment for Britain to be volunteering for the role of poodle.

Da je živ Ajri Krou rekao bi da je Austro-ugarska Britanija nesposobna da vodi spoljnu politiku mimo Nemačke SAD. 



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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Gargantua on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:48 pm

taman tako


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by William Murderface on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:55 pm

Jbt, oni su počeli da pričaju ko negativci iz stripova.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Anduril on Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:09 pm

Totalni raspad - bice jos zanimljivije ako Tramp ne potraje koliko se nadaju, ali onda nece biti nazad.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by паће on Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:17 pm

Photino Bird wrote:Bitka kod Azinkura bila u XIX veku? zanimljivo

Мислиш, Ејџинкорта :љ ?


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by Blind Lime Pie on Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:29 pm

паће wrote:
Photino Bird wrote:Bitka kod Azinkura bila u XIX veku? zanimljivo

Мислиш, Ејџинкорта :љ ?

Skrobonja je u prevodu "Hiperiona" uspeo da transkribuje Ažinkur kao Aginkort. a Tejara de Šardena kao Tejlharda de Šardena.


Uh možda je trebalo da ti kažem da sedneš pre nego što sam otkucao ovo.


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A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

Post by паће on Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:37 pm

Photino Bird wrote:
паће wrote:

Мислиш, Ејџинкорта :љ ?

Skrobonja je u prevodu "Hiperiona" uspeo da transkribuje Ažinkur kao Aginkort. a Tejara de Šardena kao Tejlharda de Šardena.


Uh možda je trebalo da ti kažem da sedneš pre nego što sam otkucao ovo.

То сам читао за лектиру, ако се сећаш... дакле нисам се превише потресао.


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Re: UK - Politika i društvo

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