UK - Politika i društvo

KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:16 pm

Obe strane su napravile zero-sum game od ovoga.
Летећи Полип

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Post by Летећи Полип on Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:17 am

To je logičan sled stvari. Svi su očekivali da će se kompromisno doći do najumerenijeg rešenja, međutim ta vremena su prošla. Politika na Zapadu sada funkcioniše drugačije.


_____
VUČIĆ – ĐILAS – ISTA GOVNA!


~Tulsi 2020~
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:46 am

Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:53 am

LONDON (Reuters) - Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Tuesday he would not request an extension to Brexit, hours after a law came into force demanding that he delay Britain’s departure from the European Union until 2020 unless he can strike a divorce deal.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 am

Bice izbori 20-30 okt, skoro sigurno
Anduril

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Post by Anduril on Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:11 am

Mislim da ne mogu biti izbori legalno vise u tom periodu posto postoji zakonski rok 6 nedelja ili tako nesto. Znaci, najranije pocetkom decembra. A do tada svasta moze da se desi ukljucujuci pokaznu no deal vezbu a BoJo na mestu premijera u ostavci. Ako tu dodje do haosa sumnjam da ce pobediti na izborima. Mada, ko zna, nacionalisticki mediji ce napraviti anti-EU atmosferu s lakocom a vecina se ocigledno pali na propagandu.
Ne moze zdrava demokratija sa takvim medijima i totalno unistenom centralnom institucijom demokratije. Kao da imas demokratiju sa partijskim sudovima.
Zato se uostalom i US demokratija raspada po savovima a u EU je uticaj drzavnih medija i dalje jak a regulacija jaca.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:12 am

da, na naslovnici tajmsa je pisalo nešto u tom stilu, da su izbori pre 31. sada isključeni, čak i u slučaju ostavke bojoa. negde videh da je najraniji period sredina novembra.

tri stranačke teze:
- torijevci će nastaviti na putu hard brexit stranke, možda im još neko bude javno otpao a prilično je sigurno da će za izbore gledati da kandidati budu baš hard brexit ili bar oni koji to javno ne dovode u pitanje. njima će vlast bukvalno zavisiti od dogovora sa faražom i od prelivanja (nerasipanja) brexitovskih glasova. ako to spoje smeši im se komotna numerička većina a još pritom bazirana na "čistom" brexitu. 

- laburistima se smeši zajebana kampanja i previše složen odnos prema brexitu da to ne bude imalo bitnog uticaja na izbore, ovakve kakvi dolaze. čak je moguće da bude poveliki unutrašnji lom između lib-dem-like rimejnovaca i, grubo rečeno korbinovaca koji žele druge teme odnosno da brexit kao tema nestane i da mogu da se bave onime čime žele. a to nije ni rimejn stranka koja može dati jasan odgovor ni na eventualnom drugom referendumu.

- lib dems će verovatno na kratki rok najviše profitirati od svega ovoga, možda uz malo sreće za njih skoče i u broju mandata, ali pitanje je koja je potom njihova funkcija osim da budu protestni glas i poza protiv brexita.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:30 pm

E to pravilo sam propustio. Jbg, onda Lab nece biti u tako dobroj poziciji. 

LibDems ce 100% skociti u broju mandata. Pitanje je samo koliko.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:42 pm

The simple reason why Johnson and so many Conservatives want an election is that the polls say they their party will win – current averages have Johnson’s party ahead by nine points. Many Labour MPs are nervous and want to push an election beyond Johnson’s 31 October deadline in the hope he will be damaged.

But it is not clear if these assumptions are well founded. On Monday, Jason Stein, an aide to Amber Rudd, a former cabinet minister, said private polling done on behalf of Downing Street and revealed to special advisers had suggested the Conservatives would end up with 295 to 300 seats, well short of the 326 required for a majority.



Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:22 pm

...

Unlike in many other countries, majority, single-party governments have been the norm in the UK. But two of the last three general elections have failed to produce such a majority, and the third only a narrow one.

One way or another, the Brexit saga will reach some sort of conclusion in the coming months, although the fallout and friction may last years. But the underlying shifts in Britain’s party system could take a decade or more to resolve. The long-standing contest between Conservative and Labour—both parties of historically big-tent coalitions of different notions of left and right—looks increasingly out of date.

Will it be replaced—and, if so, how, when, and with what? When the dust settles will there still be two big parties—and, if so, which two? Or will fragmentation and multi-party coalitions become the norm? It is quite feasible that the process will wreck our distinctive, centuries-old character of alternating rule by large, ideologically capacious parties.

If so, the crowning irony of the Brexit drama is that British politics will end up resembling politics in much of the rest of Europe.

https://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/79815?lang=en
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:48 pm

KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:52 pm

Kakvo zvekabilno lice...
паће

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Post by паће on Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:12 pm

Па није пегав, ал' све остало...


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  у ту битку не улазим јер, јебига, нећу да убијам, а они хоће, на то изађе.

  I can't possibly be out of my fucking mind, 'coz I'm still talking. That's the only mind I have.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:28 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49646249
rumbeando

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Post by rumbeando on Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:24 pm

Glasači laburista od pre dve godine više podržavaju Džo Svinson nego Korbina, tvrdi Opinium.

The poll, carried out by Opinium, looked at net approval ratings for the main party leaders.

It found that with Labour voters in the 2017 general election more back Jo Swinson over Jeremy Corbyn.

According to the figures Boris Johnson has an approval rating of -46, Nigel Farage has an approval rating -38 and Jeremy Corbyn has a rating of -6.

Jo Swinson, on the otherhand, had a rating of +4.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/jeremy-corbyn-with-labour-voters-1-6261466
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:23 pm

Scottish appeal court judges have declared Boris Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament in the run-up to the October Brexit deadline is unlawful.

The three judges, chaired by Lord Carloway, Scotland’s most senior judge, overturned an earlier ruling that the courts did not have the power to interfere in the prime minister’s political decision to prorogue parliament.

Lawyers acting for 75 opposition MPs and peers argued Johnson’s decision to suspend parliament for five weeks was illegal and in breach of the constitution, as it was designed to stifle parliamentary debate and action on Brexit.

The judges failed to issue an interdict, or injunction, ordering the UK government to reconvene parliament, prompting a row over whether the decision meant MPs could go back to the House of Commons.

The court issued an official summary of its decision declaring the prorogation order was “null and of no effect”, but Carloway said the judges were deferring a final decision on an interdict to the UK supreme court, which will hold a three-day hearing next week.

Downing Street has just finished a short lobby briefing held to respond to questions about the Scottish court decision. Here are the main points.

Number 10 has ruled out recalling parliament before the supreme court considers the appeal against the Scottish judgment.

The prime minister’s spokesman insisted the government did not think the Scottish judges were biased. Responding to questions triggered by a Sun tweet (see 11.49am),the spokesman said: “We have absolute respect for the independence of the judiciary.” The spokesman also referred journalists to the tweet on this from Robert Buckland, the justice secretary. (See 12.29pm.)
The spokesman brushed aside suggestions that Boris Johnson may have misled the Queen about his reasons for prorogation. Asked about this, the spokesman said:
The reasons that have been set out for proroguing have been consistent throughout. They were in order to bring forward a legislative programme and we have been very strong in our defence in court cases suggesting otherwise.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:41 pm

A NEW POLL has shown just over half of people in Northern Ireland would vote for Irish unification if there were a border poll tomorrow.

The poll, published by Lord Ashcroft, shows that 45% of those surveyed said they would vote to stay in the UK, while 46% said they would choose to leave and join the Republic of Ireland.

This breaks down to 51% to 49% for unification when don’t knows and those who say they would not vote are excluded.
rumbeando

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Post by rumbeando on Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:02 pm

Politički urednik Daily Maila:



Edit: I drugi potvrđuju.



Daï Djakman Faré

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Post by Daï Djakman Faré on Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:28 pm

KinderLad wrote:Kakvo zvekabilno lice...
UK - Politika i društvo  - Page 19 3579118792


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--to give the metals back their alchemical significance that has been neglected since the beginnings of the industrial revolution
--to alienate common apparati/mechanismi to create a perpetuum mobile called Motor Sehn-Sucht--
Anduril

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Post by Anduril on Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:18 pm

Dobar Pol Mejson:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/11/chaos-normalised-boris-johnson-pernicious-plan-democracy

Third, that an atmosphere of weariness is descending on the mass of people. They were already weary of Brexit and are now getting weary of endless headlines about a constitutional crisis that never seems to end.
In the 1930s, the psychologist Erich Fromm noted that the ideal conditions for the rise of dictators and autocrats was a “state of inner tiredness and resignation”, which he attributed to the pace of life in stressed, industrialised societies.
Among the German working class, Fromm observed “a deep feeling of resignation, of disbelief in their leaders, of doubt about the value of any kind of political organization and political activity … deep within themselves many had given up any hope in the effectiveness of political action”.
It is this above all that we have to fight – like sleep after a night shift – in the next five weeks. Among the urban, educated and salaried working class this moment already feels like the start of the poll tax rebellion. But in small town, deindustrialised communities there is confusion. People in those places thought that Brexit was a rebellion for democracy against the elite, but here’s the actual elite – the Queen, Jacob Rees-Mogg and co – shutting down democracy. How we address that mood will determine the outcome of the situation.
Летећи Полип

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Post by Летећи Полип on Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:31 pm

Dobro, Andurile, pošto se slažeš sa Mejsonom, kako bi se ti obratio ljudima iz deindustrijalizovane engleske provincije?


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~Tulsi 2020~
Anduril

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Post by Anduril on Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:58 pm

Летећи Полип wrote:Dobro, Andurile, pošto se slažeš sa Mejsonom, kako bi se ti obratio ljudima iz deindustrijalizovane engleske provincije?

Da ce londonski oligarsi debelo da ih prevare kao i do sada - tacno onako kako ih je odradila i Tacerka. Sve bez EU.
Drugo, da prestanu da citaju i kupuju Mejl, Sun, Ekspres koji ih masno lazu decenijama i koji su u talu sa londonskim oligarsima.
Trece, ako hoce dokaze - eno, HS2 na sever Engleske je vec otkazan a americka konkurencija spremna da im uzme NHS, posao i da ih podjarmi kao novi Portoriko. 
To bi im reko.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Slazem se, ali sta da rade, ne samo sta da ne rade?
Anduril

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Post by Anduril on Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 pm

KinderLad wrote:Slazem se, ali sta da rade, ne samo sta da ne rade?

Pa, imali su 3 godine da vode konstantnu kampanju na severu Engleske o zaveri i prevari londonskih oligarha a nisu. 
Ta London vs sever prica itekako radi tamo samo sto to niko nije eksploatisao sistematski i do kraja.
Labur vise nema one prave radnicke tipove kao sto je bio Preskot koji komuniciraju na taj nacin i to im se obija u glavu. 
Sve neki umiveni tipovi koji koriste zargon umesto da se prica ko koga zapravo laze, vara i potkrada. 
Korbin je zapravo posh-type-komunista iz Izlingtona i moze mnogo toga da nauci recimo od likova iz SNP-a koji razbijaju i Torije i Labur u Skotskoj.
Bez tog radnickog severa i Midlanda nema vecine u parlamentu a ova dualna strategija sedenja na dve stolice je gubitnicka.

Ako krenu sa agresivnom kampanjom sada da je Bregzit zapravo kradja NHS-a, americka konkurencija i londonska prevara, imaju jos sanse da dobiju sever. 
Mogu zapravo sasvim da skrenu pricu sa EU i da pricaju o parama.
Sada imaju mnogo vise municije u tom pravcu nego pre nekoliko godina posle svih glupih izjava Trampa, Dzonsona i ekipe. 
Pa Dzonson je bio najveci podrzavalac bankara - gde ces vece neprijatelje za narod sa severa.
Istovremeno mogu i da kritikuju EU, da budu evroskeptici ali da budu protiv Tori-Tramp Bregzita.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:00 pm

nema ništa od toga dok je sam čin brexita tema. moraće da izađu da bi mogli da pričaju o oligarhiji (koja je i inače bila za rimejn).

laburistima treba da se završi priča o brexitu kao demokratskoj temi, a to neće moći bez ostvarenja - bilo kakvog - brexita. treba oduzeti torijevcima da rade to što rade pod maskom "borbe za demokratski mandat" i ogoliti njihovu poziciju.

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