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Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:31 pm

^^

verovatno, ali se tek onda laburistima ne isplati da izlaze na izbore pre 2022. i nekakvog "smirivanja" ako ga bude. 

oni sada padaju, hvatanje na rimejn priču će verovatno ubrzati pad na kratki rok jer će ispasti mlađi partner libdemova u smislu najšireg narativa. ne mislim nimalo da je ovo što rade ikakva sigurica ili pametna politika ali mi je jasno zašto drže tu liniju i zašto se kockaju.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:33 pm

Gargantua wrote:^^

verovatno, ali se tek onda laburistima ne isplati da izlaze na izbore pre 2022. i nekakvog "smirivanja" ako ga bude. 

oni sada padaju, hvatanje na rimejn priču će verovatno ubrzati pad na kratki rok jer će ispasti mlađi partner libdemova u smislu najšireg narativa. ne mislim nimalo da je ovo što rade ikakva sigurica ili pametna politika ali mi je jasno zašto drže tu liniju i zašto se kockaju.

2022 Corbyn vise nece biti na celu laburista, pogotovu ako bude no-deal. 

Elem

Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, has written to Boris Johnson to tell him that she is “looking forward” to discussing with him her proposals for a second independence referendum.
Using her first letter to the new prime minister to remind him of Scottish government analysis which found that a no-deal Brexit could cost 100,000 jobs across Scotland, she writes: “Given your public comments about leaving the EU on October 31 with or without a deal, “come what may” and “do or die”, it is now – more than ever – essential that in Scotland we have an alternative option.”
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:34 pm

“Ottoman grandson becomes prime minister,” read a front-page headline of the opposition newspaper Sozcu. “For England, a prime minister with roots in Cankiri,” it said, referring to Kemal’s home province in central Turkey.

Like Johnson, his great-grandfather was a journalist who went into government, a move that proved ill-fated. In the final days of the Ottoman Empire, Kemal was captured and lynched by nationalists fighting to establish the Turkish state.

Erdogan congratulated Johnson on Twitter, adding that ties between Turkey and the United Kingdom were set to improve. Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu also congratulated him, sharing a video of Turkish reporters asking Johnson about his roots in Cankiri during a 2016 visit to Ankara.

Demiroren News Agency quoted a resident of Cankiri’s Kalfat village as saying it was an honour that someone from their village had become prime minister, adding that Johnson owed his distinctive mop of blond hair to his Turkish forefathers.

They call his ancestors from this house ‘Blond Boys’. Boris Johnson’s blondness comes from this lineage,” Mustafa Bal said.

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паће

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Post by паће on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:52 pm

Пусто турско, сада и у УК.


_____
  у ту битку не улазим јер, јебига, нећу да убијам, а они хоће, на то изађе.

  I can't possibly be out of my fucking mind, 'coz I'm still talking. That's the only mind I have.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:56 pm

Boris Johnson says he wants to make UK greatest country on Earth in first statement to MP

Boris Johnson is delivering his first statement to MPs.

He starts with a tribute to Theresa May.

Then he says his mission is to deliver Brexit and make the UK the greatest country on Earth.

He says that might sound like hyperbole. But he claims it is realistic.


Johnson says there is too much negativity around.

We must take immediate steps, he says.

First, we must restore trust in democracy by taking the UK out of the EU by 31 October. He says to fail to do this would cause a “catastrophic loss of confidence” in our political system.

He says he would prefer to leave with a deal.

But the withdrawal agreement has been rejected by MPs three times. He says the backstop is unacceptable because it undermines Britain’s democracy. It must go, he says. A time limit would not be enough.

He says the Irish border issue should be settled in the negotiations on the future relationship, which is where this issue should always have been decided.

He says he does not accept that the backstop is needed. Other, alternative arrangements are perfectly possible.

He says his team is ready to talk to the EU whenever and wherever they want to do so.

He says he hopes the EU will also be ready to meet, and to rethink their current positions.

He says the UK is more ready for a no-deal Brexit than many people believe. But in the days left before 31 October, the government will step up its preparations.

He says, if the UK does leave without a deal, the UK will have the £39bn available.

He says the Cabinet Office minister, Michael Gove, has been put in charge of no-deal planning. And the new chancellor, Sajid Javid, has said any money necessary will be available.

Johnson says the government is preparing tax cuts to stimulate innovation.

It will intensify work on getting new trade deals.

It will prepare an economic stimulus.

And he says he can give EU nationals an assurance they will have an absolute right to remain after Brexit.

Johnson says he is absolutely committed to delivering Brexit.

There are many officials in the EU would be be better placed working on trade deals in the UK.

He says the UK will not nominate a new European commissioner for after October.

He says he will not wait until 31 October before rebuilding Britain. He will start on this straight away.

...
bruno sulak

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Post by bruno sulak on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:58 pm

Gargantua wrote:^^

verovatno, ali se tek onda laburistima ne isplati da izlaze na izbore pre 2022. i nekakvog "smirivanja" ako ga bude. 

oni sada padaju, hvatanje na rimejn priču će verovatno ubrzati pad na kratki rok jer će ispasti mlađi partner libdemova u smislu najšireg narativa. ne mislim nimalo da je ovo što rade ikakva sigurica ili pametna politika ali mi je jasno zašto drže tu liniju i zašto se kockaju.

nije zanemarljiv broj leavera u laburistima odnosno medju njihovim glasacima.


_____
The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
bruno sulak

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Post by bruno sulak on Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm

inace ja ocekujem da bojo ostane makar do 2022 godine na vlasti.


_____
The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
паће

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Post by паће on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:02 pm

Добро се курчи, видећемо како ће да се пичи.


_____
  у ту битку не улазим јер, јебига, нећу да убијам, а они хоће, на то изађе.

  I can't possibly be out of my fucking mind, 'coz I'm still talking. That's the only mind I have.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:03 pm

Nije zanemarljiv, ali je u velikoj manjini.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:04 pm

bruno sulak wrote:inace ja ocekujem da bojo ostane makar do 2022 godine na vlasti.

pa ok, ali to onda znaci da je Corbynova taktika bila promasaj.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:06 pm

gledam uživo raspravu, bojo dosta šešeljevski nastupa. "korbin daje izjave za iransku televiziju, draže su mu mule iz teherana nego naši saveznici iz amerike" itd
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:07 pm

ris-mog sedi u prvom redu, sad kapiram da je postao "leader of the commons"
bruno sulak

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Post by bruno sulak on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:13 pm

KinderLad wrote:
bruno sulak wrote:inace ja ocekujem da bojo ostane makar do 2022 godine na vlasti.

pa ok, ali to onda znaci da je Corbynova taktika bila promasaj.

corbyn je zapravo u veoma teskoj poziciji gde vodi rat na dva fronta. on ne moze da vodi politiku kao rimejner a gazi ga blerovsko krilo nemilice koje i dalje drzi dobar deo poslanika.

mislim da ce njegova politika biti neuspesna ali je ne bih nazvao promasenom. mislim da su sanse protiv njega ali i da ih ima. mozda mu se posreci. mozda ovaj dilber napravi neku kardinalnu gresku. sve je moguce.

problem je taj sto torijevci nisu vise stranka vec ono kartel. svi ce se postrojiti iza bojo-a kada pucne bicem.


_____
The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:18 pm

bojo i dankan-smit "uguravaju" korbina u rimejnere, bojo ga zajebava da je žrtva kao u filmu "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", da je transformisan od livera u rimejnera.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:20 pm

bruno sulak wrote:
KinderLad wrote:

pa ok, ali to onda znaci da je Corbynova taktika bila promasaj.

corbyn je zapravo u veoma teskoj poziciji gde vodi rat na dva fronta. on ne moze da vodi politiku kao rimejner a gazi ga blerovsko krilo nemilice koje i dalje drzi dobar deo poslanika.

mislim da ce njegova politika biti neuspesna ali je ne bih nazvao promasenom. mislim da su sanse protiv njega ali i da ih ima. mozda mu se posreci. mozda ovaj dilber napravi neku kardinalnu gresku. sve je moguce.

problem je taj sto torijevci nisu vise stranka vec ono kartel. svi ce se postrojiti iza bojo-a kada pucne bicem.

Jedina sansa da mu (BoJou) dovoljan broj poslanika otkaze poslusnost je pre 31. oktobra. Posle toga - vrlo mrsavo. Tako da on (Corbyn) u nekom momentu kad kriza dodje do vrhunca (cenim polovinom oktobra) mora da pozove na izglasavanje nepoverenja vladi. Inace ce, u ocima laburistickih rimejnera ownovati Brexit u sasvim dovoljnoj meri da odu LibDemsima. O glasacima u Skotskoj da ne pricam.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:22 pm

Gargantua wrote:bojo i dankan-smit "uguravaju" korbina u rimejnere, bojo ga zajebava da je žrtva kao u filmu "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", da je transformisan od livera u rimejnera.

Zapravo ja mislim da je Corbynu vreme vec isteklo, ali necu to na ovom mestu da potenciram do kraja UK - Politika i društvo  1399639816
Desmond Bojčinski

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Post by Desmond Bojčinski on Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:57 pm

Sotir wrote: Ispostavilo se da mu je neki predak vanbračni sin nemačkog plemića. Dobitna kombinacija.
https://youtu.be/Iu6YFBQOB3c?t=82
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:12 pm

https://twitter.com/syrpis/status/1154286327699005440

Phil Syrpis
@syrpis
·
5 ч

This may well be nonsense (it was ever thus...); but PM Johnson seems to have a plan. It gives me no pleasure to say this, but it will be difficult to stop. 1/

The plan is not what some might expect. He is more interested in power than in Brexit. His aim (so I argue here) is to fight, and win, a GE, and to obtain a mandate for the next five years. 2/

The way he approaches Brexit should not be seen as cakeist and naive. In policy terms it is: but the thing is that his Brexit plan is not intended to succeed. Instead, it is only intended to create the narrative around which a GE can be won. 3/

First, he will go 'our EU friends', appealing to their economic self-interest, demanding things he knows he cannot get. He will present himself as a 'can-do dealer'... whose plan has only been thwarted by intransigence in Brussels. 4/

Watch for the sharp shift in tone (which will come when the time is judged to be right). Erstwhile friends in the EU will become public enemy number one. The UK will be strong and confident. In extremis, we go it alone, and leave without a deal. 5/

But the plan is not to leave without a deal in October. That, as he knows, would cause huge disruption, and would not augur well for him as PM. The plan is to be ready to leave... but then to be thwarted by public enemy number two, the remainer Parliament. 6/

He will provoke the moderate Tories. He probably knows that they require quite a lot of provoking. He will not seek to undermine the confidence of the Labour Party and the Lib Dems. But he will starve the Brexit Party of political space. 7/

He wants to be able to fight a general election, as the man who is standing up for the British people; against the twin evils of the EU and the remain establishment. Vote Leave (and Dom Cummings) have, remember, done this unexpectedly successfully once before. 8/

To win, he needs to neuter the Brexit Party (I suspect that the jury is out on whether to offer some sort of pact or to opt for a more aggressive strategy), and bank on the fact that the 'remain' opposition will remain disunited. 9/

All this points, as I said a couple of days ago, to an Autumn general election. It is consistent with the UK's inability to concretise Brexit - both his 'new deal' and his 'no deal' will remain stubbornly undefined until after the GE. (link: https://twitter.com/syrpis/status/1153789780980670468) twitter.com/syrpis/status/… 10/

He has a good chance of success. The difficult task of delivering Brexit is deferred to the far side of a general election... and by then, who knows what the options may be. He can cross that bridge when he comes to it. 11/

The easiest way to stop this plan is to prevent him from winning the GE. That depends on the opposition working together. Looking at the relationships between Corbyn, Sturgeon, Swinson and Lucas; Johnson might well calculate that he has nothing to fear. 12/12
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Post by bruno sulak on Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:48 pm

KinderLad wrote:
Gargantua wrote:bojo i dankan-smit "uguravaju" korbina u rimejnere, bojo ga zajebava da je žrtva kao u filmu "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", da je transformisan od livera u rimejnera.

Zapravo ja mislim da je Corbynu vreme vec isteklo, ali necu to na ovom mestu da potenciram do kraja UK - Politika i društvo  1399639816

moguce ali su se blerovci bas usmrdeli. tako da je ono prilicno teska situacija kada su laburisti u pitanju.

inace ludilo je da je libdemsi imaju bilo kakav kredibilitet o bilo cemu. evo jedne male prognoze: oni ce radije paktirati sa brexiterom bojo-m nego sa socijalistom korbinom.


_____
The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:57 pm

Gargantua wrote:
https://twitter.com/syrpis/status/1154286327699005440

Phil Syrpis
@syrpis
·
5 ч

This may well be nonsense (it was ever thus...); but PM Johnson seems to have a plan. It gives me no pleasure to say this, but it will be difficult to stop. 1/

The plan is not what some might expect. He is more interested in power than in Brexit. His aim (so I argue here) is to fight, and win, a GE, and to obtain a mandate for the next five years. 2/

The way he approaches Brexit should not be seen as cakeist and naive. In policy terms it is: but the thing is that his Brexit plan is not intended to succeed. Instead, it is only intended to create the narrative around which a GE can be won. 3/

First, he will go 'our EU friends', appealing to their economic self-interest, demanding things he knows he cannot get. He will present himself as a 'can-do dealer'... whose plan has only been thwarted by intransigence in Brussels. 4/

Watch for the sharp shift in tone (which will come when the time is judged to be right). Erstwhile friends in the EU will become public enemy number one. The UK will be strong and confident. In extremis, we go it alone, and leave without a deal. 5/

But the plan is not to leave without a deal in October. That, as he knows, would cause huge disruption, and would not augur well for him as PM. The plan is to be ready to leave... but then to be thwarted by public enemy number two, the remainer Parliament. 6/

He will provoke the moderate Tories. He probably knows that they require quite a lot of provoking. He will not seek to undermine the confidence of the Labour Party and the Lib Dems. But he will starve the Brexit Party of political space. 7/

He wants to be able to fight a general election, as the man who is standing up for the British people; against the twin evils of the EU and the remain establishment. Vote Leave (and Dom Cummings) have, remember, done this unexpectedly successfully once before. 8/

To win, he needs to neuter the Brexit Party (I suspect that the jury is out on whether to offer some sort of pact or to opt for a more aggressive strategy), and bank on the fact that the 'remain' opposition will remain disunited. 9/

All this points, as I said a couple of days ago, to an Autumn general election. It is consistent with the UK's inability to concretise Brexit - both his 'new deal' and his 'no deal' will remain stubbornly undefined until after the GE. (link: https://twitter.com/syrpis/status/1153789780980670468) twitter.com/syrpis/status/… 10/

He has a good chance of success. The difficult task of delivering Brexit is deferred to the far side of a general election... and by then, who knows what the options may be. He can cross that bridge when he comes to it. 11/

The easiest way to stop this plan is to prevent him from winning the GE. That depends on the opposition working together. Looking at the relationships between Corbyn, Sturgeon, Swinson and Lucas; Johnson might well calculate that he has nothing to fear. 12/12
Ima dosta smisla. U tom slucaju jedina opcija je ujedinjena Remain opozicija i pravljenje od izbora referendum. Corbyn to naravno nece prihvatiti.
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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:06 pm

bruno sulak wrote:
KinderLad wrote:

Zapravo ja mislim da je Corbynu vreme vec isteklo, ali necu to na ovom mestu da potenciram do kraja UK - Politika i društvo  1399639816

moguce ali su se blerovci bas usmrdeli. tako da je ono prilicno teska situacija kada su laburisti u pitanju.

inace ludilo je da je libdemsi imaju bilo kakav kredibilitet o bilo cemu. evo jedne male prognoze: oni ce radije paktirati sa brexiterom bojo-m nego sa socijalistom korbinom.

Nece. Ja stojim iza onoga sto sam napisao - Blerovci, ovi, oni, to je sad nebitno. Medju glasacima apsolutno dominantna, i jedina je stvarno relevantna samo podela Brexit-Remain. Sva istrazivanja javnog mnjenja to pokazuju. To su dve opcije koje najvise znace najvecem broju ljudi i ono sto je bilo pre zanima samo veliku manjinu glasaca. A bome i ono sto ce biti posle. Brexit mora biti porazen, sa levog stanovista, ne zato sto je EU super, nego zato sto je Brexit sam osmisljen od strane Cons kao patriotski malj kojim ce se tuci sve druge opcije od onog momenta kad su shvatili da ne mogu na drugaciji nacin da vode ekstremnu pro-biznis politiku. I da uopste ne mogu na drugaciji nacin da osvoje jasnu vecinu u parlamentu. A fora sa Brexitom je sto se on ne zavrsava formalnim izlaskom iz EU, nego se nastavlja narednih 10 godina u vidu pregovora o buducem odnosu UK i EU. To je cela ideja, a to je i super nacin da se zaposle "kadrovi" jer ima da se pregovara i da se pregovara, sa EU, sa US, sa celim svetom.
KinderLad

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Post by KinderLad on Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:09 pm

I samo da dodam da je to super i za LibDems kojima takodje savrseno odgovara takav kulturoloski rat umesto ekonomskih pitanja.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:29 pm

u širem smislu tema dugoročnih efekata krize 2008. i oskudice i kapitalizma i svega ostalog je prevaziđena drugom temom i ispala (izbačena) iz fokusa javnosti. drugi teren, drugi golići.
Gargantua

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Post by Gargantua on Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:34 pm

Gargamel

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Post by Gargamel on Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:07 pm

bruno sulak wrote:evo jedne male prognoze: oni ce radije paktirati sa brexiterom bojo-m nego sa socijalistom korbinom.
libdem neće paktirati ni sa brexiterom Džonsonom ni sa brexiterom Korbinom. njima je anti-Brexit stav bio i ostao udarna stavka - odbijanjem kompromisa sa anti-EU ekipom mogu da pridobiju pro-EU nastrojene torijevce i laburiste. u svemu ostalom mogu da prave kompromise.

pitanje je računice kome libdem mogu da otkinu više glasova, torijevcima ili laburistima. pa će se u skladu sa tim pozicionirati (ili muljati) u ostalim iole bitnim pitanjima.

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