Dolazi sa Yuga

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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by KinderLad on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:31 am

Creepy Uncle wrote:Koliko se sećam, grčke škole na Imbrosu ukinute su 1963, neposredno nakon erupcije kiparske krize, a tada je krenulo i otimanje zemlje...

Dobro to (to konkretno ne znam), ali novi pogrom u Turskoj generalno je počeo 50tih
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Creepy Uncle on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:33 am

A da, to jeste, samo Imbros je kasnio podosta. A onda je krenulo ludilo - recimo sagrade zatvor poluotvorenog tipa i puste silovatelje i koljače da slobodno šetaju po ostrvu.


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His black Porsche said “Gypsy” on it, and he wore a scarf around his head. He used to be a ballerina, and he was homosexual, and very hot for Iggy’s parts—body parts—and “yen” is a term that William Burroughs uses a lot describing the craving for heroin. So in “Lust for Life” there’s a line, “Here comes Johnny Yen again, with liquor and drugs and a sex machine,” and that’s Gypsy Johnny coming up to Wonderland Avenue with his scarves and his drugs and his motorized dildos and whatever else he had, his balloons full of Mexican heroin that was killing all of us.
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by KinderLad on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:35 am

Vatikan be like

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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by William Murderface on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:36 am

Creepy Uncle wrote:Biće zanimljivo gledati uticaj ovih događaja na Hilandar...to je teška prića rođaci.

Sta li ce biti s niciforijom...


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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by KinderLad on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:36 am

Creepy Uncle wrote:A da, to jeste, samo Imbros je kasnio podosta. A onda je krenulo ludilo - recimo sagrade zatvor poluotvorenog tipa i puste silovatelje i koljače da slobodno šetaju po ostrvu.

lovely
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Creepy Uncle on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:37 am

William Murderface wrote:
Creepy Uncle wrote:Biće zanimljivo gledati uticaj ovih događaja na Hilandar...to je teška prića rođaci.

Sta li ce biti s niciforijom...

Nema nićiforije, nema ni suštine!


_____
His black Porsche said “Gypsy” on it, and he wore a scarf around his head. He used to be a ballerina, and he was homosexual, and very hot for Iggy’s parts—body parts—and “yen” is a term that William Burroughs uses a lot describing the craving for heroin. So in “Lust for Life” there’s a line, “Here comes Johnny Yen again, with liquor and drugs and a sex machine,” and that’s Gypsy Johnny coming up to Wonderland Avenue with his scarves and his drugs and his motorized dildos and whatever else he had, his balloons full of Mexican heroin that was killing all of us.

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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Zuper on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:52 am

Vatikanu ovo ne odgovara. Ovo obara znacaj Carigrada koji je bio blizak unijatskoj prici. Sto je bio jedna linija sukoba sa Moskvom.
Vatikan vec duze pokusava da posalje papu u Rusiju i otvori dijalog sa Moskvom.
Pitanje je sta ce se sada desiti.

Inace to insistiranje na Carigradu kao centru pravoslavlja je prilicno imperijalisticko. I dalje se snevaju snovi o Sv. Sofiji...

PS

Uskoro ce Rus postati patrijarh u Carigradu...
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by паће on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:53 am

Kondo wrote:Čekaj, pardon my french, vaseljenska na srpskom znači vasionska?

Јесте, значи, а ти се сам снађи ко ће да помилује твоје Французе.


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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by William Murderface on Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:54 am

Zuper wrote:Vatikanu ovo ne odgovara. Ovo obara znacaj Carigrada koji je bio blizak unijatskoj prici. Sto je bio jedna linija sukoba sa Moskvom.
Vatikan vec duze pokusava da posalje papu u Rusiju i otvori dijalog sa Moskvom.
Pitanje je sta ce se sada desiti.

Inace to insistiranje na Carigradu kao centru pravoslavlja je prilicno imperijalisticko. I dalje se snevaju snovi o Sv. Sofiji...

PS

Uskoro ce Rus postati patrijarh u Carigradu...

Samo prvo turistički da obiđe onaj toranj.


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Zuper on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:01 pm

Jok more.
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by William Murderface on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:02 pm

Dobro, i more.


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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Kondo on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:03 pm



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Che Guevara and Debussy to a disco beat
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by KinderLad on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:06 pm

„Нас је у Српској православној цркви поразила чињеница да је васељенски патријарх, познавалац канона, донео такву одлуку, која је, без сумње, неканонска“, казао је Амфилохије за Први канал Русије, пренео је „Блиц“.
Он истиче да таква одлука отвара проблем мешања у живот помесних цркава, у овом случају руске цркве, и додаје да је улога васељенског патријарха, првог међу једнакима, да сједињује, а не разједињује.
„Оваквим својим поступцима цариградски патријарх управо разједињује. Он не решава ово питање, већ проблем гура све дубље“, истакао је Амфилохије.

https://rs.sputniknews.com/politika/201810171117525589-amfilohije-vartolomej/


A ovo je u stvari jako blaga izjava
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by William Murderface on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:11 pm

Izuzetno blaga.


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Creepy Uncle on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:15 pm

Pa Amfilohije je stari ekumenista, uvek on igra oprezno u ovim trvenjima.


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His black Porsche said “Gypsy” on it, and he wore a scarf around his head. He used to be a ballerina, and he was homosexual, and very hot for Iggy’s parts—body parts—and “yen” is a term that William Burroughs uses a lot describing the craving for heroin. So in “Lust for Life” there’s a line, “Here comes Johnny Yen again, with liquor and drugs and a sex machine,” and that’s Gypsy Johnny coming up to Wonderland Avenue with his scarves and his drugs and his motorized dildos and whatever else he had, his balloons full of Mexican heroin that was killing all of us.
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by William Murderface on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:17 pm

Jeste.


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Zuper on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:18 pm

E sad.
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Creepy Uncle on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:20 pm

Šta?


_____
His black Porsche said “Gypsy” on it, and he wore a scarf around his head. He used to be a ballerina, and he was homosexual, and very hot for Iggy’s parts—body parts—and “yen” is a term that William Burroughs uses a lot describing the craving for heroin. So in “Lust for Life” there’s a line, “Here comes Johnny Yen again, with liquor and drugs and a sex machine,” and that’s Gypsy Johnny coming up to Wonderland Avenue with his scarves and his drugs and his motorized dildos and whatever else he had, his balloons full of Mexican heroin that was killing all of us.

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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Zuper on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:28 pm

Sve se slazem
+1
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Bungee jump on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:51 pm

Zuper wrote:Vatikanu ovo ne odgovara. Ovo obara znacaj Carigrada koji je bio blizak unijatskoj prici. Sto je bio jedna linija sukoba sa Moskvom.
Vatikan vec duze pokusava da posalje papu u Rusiju i otvori dijalog sa Moskvom.
Pitanje je sta ce se sada desiti.

Inace to insistiranje na Carigradu kao centru pravoslavlja je prilicno imperijalisticko. I dalje se snevaju snovi o Sv. Sofiji...

PS

Uskoro ce Rus postati patrijarh u Carigradu...

Sukob Moskve i Carigrada veze nema sa odnosom Carigrada i Rima (sa sve unijatima).
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Gargantua on Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:29 pm

Ukraine war threatens deep divisions in Orthodox Church

By Ivan Watson, CNN
October 17, 2018


(CNN) A schism has erupted within the eastern Orthodox church, threatening bitter divisions for its roughly 300 million followers.

Stemming from the deadly war in eastern Ukraine, a power struggle has emerged that pits the Russian Orthodox Church headquartered in Moscow against Bartholomew I of Constantinople, a 78-year-old, ethnic Greek cleric living in Istanbul.

The conflict is roiling a branch of Christianity that prides itself on preserving rituals and traditions that originated during the Byzantine Empire more than a thousand years ago.

On Monday, the Russian Orthodox Church -- which is lavishly funded and enjoys close political ties with Russian president Vladimir Putin -- announced it was cutting ties with Bartholomew.

Bartholomew infuriated his Russian Orthodox counterparts last week when he announced he would recognize the establishment of an independent Orthodox Church in Ukraine, revoking a centuries-old agreement -- dating back to 1686 -- which granted the Patriarch in Moscow authority over churches in the country.

In its statement, the Moscow Patriarchate -- the Russian Orthodox Church's clerical leadership -- said it would no longer accept clergy from its counterpart in Istanbul, the Constantinople Patriarchate, and announced its followers could no longer attend services in churches that follow Bartholomew.

But while the Christian population in mostly-Muslim Turkey has dwindled to just a few thousand over the last century, the world's Orthodox Christians call Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew "first among equals," and many view him as the spiritual and symbolic leader of their faith.

Loosely put, Bartholomew is the Orthodox equivalent of the Pope, though the Catholic Church has a stricter hierarchical structure than its eastern counterpart.

Schism

"This is something historic that I think will result in a schism," says Rev. Alexander Laschuk, a Ukrainian Catholic priest who teaches canon law at the University of Toronto.
"The question is -- is this something short or something that will last centuries?"

The rift is already drawing comparisons to the East-West Schism of 1054, which split Catholic Christians from eastern Orthodox Christians, and England's King Henry VIII's 1531 decision to break away from the authority of the Pope in Rome, a move which led to the foundation of a Protestant church in England.

"Over the centuries there have been a number of these splits, which usually turn out to be power struggles between different individuals," says Robert Brinkley, an expert on the former Soviet Union at the London-based think tank Chatham House.

'One of the last levers of influence'

Bartholomew's decision to recognize an independent Ukrainian Orthodox Church delighted Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko, whose government is battling Russian-backed separatists in the east of the country, and demanding the return of Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014.
"The empire is losing one of the last levers of influence over its former colony," Poroshenko said.

Political and religious circles in Moscow condemned the move.

Last Friday, Russian President Vladimir Putin led a security council meeting focused on Bartholomew's decision. Three days later, the Moscow Patriarchate severed ties with the Greek religious leader.

Accusing the Constantinople Patriarchate of "predatory actions" and an "anti-church political project," Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev, a spokesman for the Moscow Patriarchate, declared that Bartholomew "has now lost the right to be called the coordinating center for the Orthodox Church."

Roughly half of the world's Orthodox Christians live in Russia. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union -- which was officially atheist -- in 1991, the Russian Orthodox Church has become an important national symbol frequently and is publicly embraced by Putin.

"The Russian Orthodox Church acts as the spiritual arm of the Russian state," says Chatham House's Robert Brinkley.

"In terms of Russia trying to keep together its old empire, in particular Ukraine and Belarus, the Russian Orthodox Church has been an important instrument in seeking to do that."

Hurting the Russian Church's prestige

The potential loss of tens of millions of Orthodox Ukrainians and thousands of Ukrainian church parishes would be a serious blow to the prestige of the Russian Orthodox Church and by extension, the Kremlin.
"We're talking about power, we're not talking about people. We're talking about territory and power and authority," says Laschuk.

In his announcement last week, Bartholomew appealed to all sides to "avoid appropriation of churches, monasteries and other properties, as well as every other act of violence and retaliation."

The power struggle between clerics in Moscow, Istanbul and Kiev has raised fears of tension boiling over at churches in Ukraine, and the rift is already being felt among Orthodox priests as far away as the US.
"This is a blow to Orthodox unity," said Archpriest Victor Potapov, rector of St John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Cathedral in Washington DC.

He predicts Russian Orthodox priests in the US linked to the Moscow Patriarchate will likely have to cut liturgical ties with clerics associated with Patriarch Bartholomew.

"We have a priest from the Ecumenical Patriarch who serves with us on a weekly basis," he says.

"I don't know what going to become of that."
He says that the schism is causing "a lot of heartache" in the Orthodox world.

"People are taking sides ... every single town in the US that has Orthodox clergy will be immediately affected," says Rev. John Jillions, chancellor of the Orthodox Church in America, an organization which represents some 700 hundred parishes in North America and operates independently from the Patriarchate in Moscow.

"In the short term, in a place like Ukraine there could be tussles over property and who owns what," Jillions says.

"In the long run, these kinds of divisions have occurred throughout 2000 years of Christian history."

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/17/europe/russia-orthodox-church-bartholomew-i-of-constantinople-schism-intl/index.html
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Gargantua on Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:33 pm

Глава самопровозглашенной Украинской автокефальной православной церкви (УАПЦ) Макарий (Малетич) сообщил о разногласиях с лидером неканонического Киевского патриархата Филаретом (Денисенко) из-за объединительного собора, проведение которого нужно для получения томоса.

В частности, Макарий пожаловался на то, что Филарет не дал ему возможности выбирать устав, статус и название будущей церкви. «Название уже есть, и вы должны присоединиться», – процитировал он Филарета, передает «Интерфакс».

Также Филарет не согласился объединять два устава церквей в один. «Я ему говорю: «Собор собирать нет устава», – «А устав у меня есть». «У меня тоже есть, но из двух уставов надо сделать один устав», – заметил Макарий. «Нет, будет мой устав», – ответил Филарет.

По словам Макария, статус новой церкви также остается не до конца выясненным. «Когда я спросил: митрополия, будет ли митрополия, он со злобой сказал, что митрополии не будет, будет патриархия», – привел слова Филарета глава УАПЦ.

12 октября «киевский патриарх» Филарет призвал Украинскую автокефальную православную церковь (УАПЦ) и Украинскую православную церковь Московского патриархата (УПЦ) организовать объединительный собор в связи с решениями Константинополя. УПЦ МП отказалась от приглашения.
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Gargantua on Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:45 pm

В Московском патриархате говорят о том, что «больше нет единого координирующего центра в Православной церкви». Константинополь «самоликвидировался» в качестве такого центра, сказал глава ОВЦС митрополит Иларион. Можно ли сказать, что в условиях «православного майдана» на роль такого центра будет претендовать Москва, которая еще в XV веке устами старца Филофея назвала себя Третьим Римом – и, заметим, именно после падения Константинополя?

«Москва никогда не будет себя сама идентифицировать как лидера. Это не в русском менталитете и не в понимании русской церкви. Это должны делать другие люди и другие церкви», – сказал газете ВЗГЛЯД протоиерей Владимир Вигилянский, настоятель храма святой мученицы Татианы при МГУ, бывший пресс-секретарь патриарха Московского и всея Руси. «Но, – добавил он, – вообще, в принципе, две трети прихожан мирового православия и две трети священнослужителей и храмов, если считать все в мире, принадлежат РПЦ. Поэтому она является фактически лидером».

Отец Владимир отметил особое отношение РПЦ к делам церкви. «Русская церковь всегда ратовала за соборное отношение к проблемам всемирного православия, предоставление автокефалии, например, должно быть консенсусным, то есть за должны быть все церкви», – напомнил он. Например, когда в 1990 году РПЦ дала автономию УПЦ МП, было получено письменное согласие предстоятелей всех поместных церквей, подчеркнул Вигилянский. «Так всегда действовала и будет действовать РПЦ, она никогда в жизни не будет провозглашать себя первой по православию, центром православия и еще что-то в этом духе». То есть «прибивать щит на врата Царьграда» РПЦ, как уверен отец Владимир, не будет.
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by Anduril on Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:43 pm

Koliko znam, ima tu i istorijsko rivalstvo izmedju Kijeva i Moskve, posto je Kijev mnogo stariji.
Drugo, Petar Veliki je fakticki ukinuo Moskovsku Patrijarsiju i moskovski patrijarh nije biran sve do revolucije 1917. posto su carevi a ne patrijarsi predsedavali sinodom.
Posle su KGB i dalje Putininovci kontrolisali Moskovsku Patrijarsiju - bio je i nedavno skandal kad su Ukrajinci otvorili dosije koji ukazuje u kolikoj meri je KGB kontrolisao crkvu.
Sve to naravno ne daje neki veliki autoritet Moskovskoj Patrijarsiji, a bilo je i za ocekivati da ce ratom za Ukrajinu mnogo vise da se izgubi na duze staze nego trenutni politicki odnosi. 
Takve stvari uticu na generacije i ne zaboravljaju se lako.
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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

Post by otto katz on Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:58 pm

Kad Isus opet dođe imat će šta vidjet. Sveti Petar ostavio jednu crkvu, a sad ih ima 100. Živ nisam da čujem šta li će im reći.


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Re: Dolazi sa Yuga

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