WW2 revizionizam

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WW2 revizionizam

Post by Kondo on Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:52 am

Slavisa Lekic može i mnogo vise od 1% sto se mene tice.


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dosovac sa bureka naviko valjda na smece, ne zna za red, obzira prema drugim ljudima ima jos manje, pa ni svadju ne moze na jednom mestu, vec je preliva kao kanalizaciju gde god stigne. retko beskoristan ali zato kao proliv dosadan lik, od mnogih koji su bili na ovom forumu. no drugo i nije ocekivati od vedete foruma od kojeg smo mnogi pobegli glavom bez obzira.



I was faced with a choice at a difficult age
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by disident on Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:55 am

na samu temu, mene zanima sta bi rekli gargonauta i ostali istoricari na ovaj post(i baneta gajica)
Vuce me da je rodjeno za ovu temu, al nisam sto posto siguran 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10215029356464438&set=a.4728945618677.2189216.1145798431&type=3&theater

Bane Gajic
6 ч. · 

"Antibirokratska revolucija": organizovani mitinzi podrške smeni u komunističkom vrhu Srbije i usponu bračnog para Milošević-Marković ka vlasti. "Narod" su na mitinzima glumili uglavnom radnici velikih preduzeća.
Parole i Titove slike ukazuju na ideološku prirodu obračuna unutar komunističke elite, iako je kasnije Slobodan Milošević postao u svetskim medijima simbol podivljalog srpskog nacionalizma. Ipak, niko od onih koji su Miloševića predstavljali kao iskljucivog upravljača razornih jugoslovenskih ratova, nije do kraja objasnio da li je on zaista u potpunosti komandovao snagama JNA koje su ratovale sa hrvatskim, bosanskim i slovenačkim milicijama, razarajuci u tom ratu gradove nekadašnje Jugoslavije, ili je ipak vojna hunta koja je bila prava i najjača sila u drzavi od 1945. godine, taj rat vodila nezavisno i mimo njega, namenjujuci mu sporednu ulogu lokalnog aparatcika sa sopstvenim pogresnim politickim vizijama i po kojom lako naoruzanom paravojnom formacijom pod kontrolom srpske tajne policije...
Beograd, novembar 1988.
Fotografija je iz ciklusa "Bila jednom Jugoslavija" istaknutog autora Milomira Kovačevića.


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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by disident on Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:57 am

Rozita wrote:Joj, koliko je ovde No Country u pravu, to je skoro da se postena zena zabrine. Ne valja rasprava gde jedna strana sve ubada, a druga sve promasuje, ali ova je takva. Jebote, ljudi, dajte malo racionalnog. Ima zivih ljudi koji su u zlatnim osamdesetim zaglavili na robiji zbog verbalnog delikta, bez ikakve veze sa nacionalizmom, a da ih je, od svih ljudi, samo Puhovski branio. Guglajte Milana Soklica ako ste premladi ili preglupi. I da potegnem Ostapov argument, znam Soklica licno i da Slavisa Lekic ili Tamara Skrozza danas dozive 1% posto torture kroz koju je prosao Soklic, Merkel, Makron i, s oprostenjem, Kurc bi se trkali ko ce se prvi odreci Vucica. Unesite malo razuma u raspravu, ako je moguce.
google nista ne izbacuje,daj neki link


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Фала Богу па су се западњачићи сетили да су и Словени Европљани-белци. 

Обично нас гурају међу Турке, Монголе, Азијате, Африканце или ко зна где већ.  

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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:01 am

De si, zvezdo 


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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Kondo on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:01 am

To je poznata teorija dobrog starog Bruna.


_____
dosovac sa bureka naviko valjda na smece, ne zna za red, obzira prema drugim ljudima ima jos manje, pa ni svadju ne moze na jednom mestu, vec je preliva kao kanalizaciju gde god stigne. retko beskoristan ali zato kao proliv dosadan lik, od mnogih koji su bili na ovom forumu. no drugo i nije ocekivati od vedete foruma od kojeg smo mnogi pobegli glavom bez obzira.



I was faced with a choice at a difficult age
Would I write a book? Or should I take to the stage?
But in the back of my head I heard distant feet
Che Guevara and Debussy to a disco beat
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Rozita on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:05 am

@disident za pocetak
http://montenegrin.traduki.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2030:soklic-milan&Itemid=133
inace je prica mnogo siroka i zajebana


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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:08 am

znaci dovidjenja u sledecem ratu je mogao da se gleda samo u SKC-u? pitam za prijatelja martija mekflaja.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:10 am

sfrj je bila diktatura proleterijata nominalno s nejednako rasporedjenom politickom represijom po republikama. ali ono sto danas pricaju pojedini autori i tzv. svedoci o cenzuri filmova jednostavno nija tacno.


_____
The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Rozita on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:12 am

U vise knjizara u Tirani je bilo Kadareovih knjiga, nego sto je beogradskih bioskopa prikazivalo Pavlovica. Je li veca razlika izmedju Ismaila i Zike ili izmedju Broza i Enver Hodze, nek svako skapira na svom astalu...


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Rosencrantz and Guildenstern could not be told apart
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Gertrude called one Guildenstern the other Rosecrantz
Claudius saw differently just from a cursive glance.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:21 am

ne znam koliko je knjizara nosilo ismailove knjige ali je zikine filmove pustao beograd film. i svakako nisu bili zabranjeni kao sto nc napisao. ti si naravno svestan da je zika dobio 4 zlatne arene koliko ja mogu da se setim. najblize cenzuri je bio tako sto je morao da radi u sloveniji krajem sedamdesetih.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Filipenko on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:30 am

Rozita wrote:Joj, koliko je ovde No Country u pravu, to je skoro da se postena zena zabrine. Ne valja rasprava gde jedna strana sve ubada, a druga sve promasuje, ali ova je takva. Jebote, ljudi, dajte malo racionalnog. Ima zivih ljudi koji su u zlatnim osamdesetim zaglavili na robiji zbog verbalnog delikta, bez ikakve veze sa nacionalizmom, a da ih je, od svih ljudi, samo Puhovski branio.

U pravu je da ne treba davati imena ulicama po ljudima čije vladavine nisu bile demokratske već bile diktature? Pretpostavljam da ste svi odreda spremni da tako ustanovljen kriterijum primenite na sve vladare, ne samo na jednog?


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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Rozita on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:30 am

Nisam svesna broja Arena, svesna sam koristenja decentralizacije i postojanja veceg broja republicko/drzavnih producentskih kuca, ali ako je SFRJ bila netotalitarna zbog velikog broja nivoa vlasti, onda je dejtonska Bosna vrhunac demokratije: kantoni, distrikti, entiteti, pickematerine. Ok, Zika radi, a Lari Stenton, Milan Soklic, Adem Demaci na robiji, pojeo vuk magarca.


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Rosencrantz and Guildenstern could not be told apart
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Gargantua on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:32 am

The American Ambassador in Yugoslavia ( Patterson ) to the Yugoslav Minister for Foreign Affairs (Tito)
No. 211
Belgrade , November 6, 1945.

Excellency: I have the honor to transmit, under instructions from my Government, the following message to Your Excellency:

The United States Government has been following developments in post-liberation Yugoslavia with particular attention in the light of the responsibility toward the people of Yugoslavia assumed by the United States in conjunction with its British and Soviet Allies at Yalta. The three signatories to the Crimea Declaration recommended in that declaration that the agreement between Marshal Tito on behalf of the National Committee of Liberation and Dr. Subasic on behalf of the Royal Yugoslav Government be put into effect immediately. That agreement provided for the establishment of a unified government containing adherents of both parties to exercise the executive authority pending the decision by a freely elected constituent assembly on the final constitutional organization of the state. The agreement further called for specific guarantees of personal freedom, freedom from fear, liberty of conscience, freedom of speech, liberty of the press, and freedom of assembly and association.

Elections for a constituent assembly have been announced for November 11, 1945. However, owing to failure effectively to implement these guarantees conditions have now been created in Yugoslavia under which a single list of candidates representative of only one section of the electorate will be presented for endorsement on that occasion. In addition, the elections will be conducted and the votes counted by local committees and judicial organs of which the controlling membership has been appointed by, and is consequently overwhelmingly responsive to, leaders of one faction. Finally, in view of these conditions one of the contracting parties to the Tito–Subasic agreement has felt called upon to resign from the unified government together with one of his colleagues.

The United States Government views with concern the developments outlined above which in its opinion demonstrate conclusively that a situation has arisen inimical to the exercise of democratic processes and prejudicial to the validity, as a free and untrammelled expression of the will of all democratic elements of the people, of the elections now contemplated. Election of a common list without an opposition will give no indication of the real views of the Yugoslav people. Unless the Yugoslav Government can restore the confidence of the electorate by fully implementing the guarantees contained in the Tito–Subasic agreement, and particularly those relating to personal freedom and freedom from fear, it is clear that the regime resulting from the forthcoming election will not enjoy the prestige that attaches to a Government that is based on a genuine consultation of the people’s will.

It may be noted that before communicating the above views the United States Government has been in consultation with the other signatories of the Yalta Declaration.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Rozita on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:33 am

@Filipendko

Jedino je posteno odmeravati pojedini rezim sa standardom njegove epohe, u tvom lepom kolazu, svi osim Broza medju savremenicima u Evropi i imaju samo diktatore, dok su Brozovi savremenici rutinski smenjivi na izborima, od Londona do Rima


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Rosencrantz and Guildenstern could not be told apart
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Gertrude called one Guildenstern the other Rosecrantz
Claudius saw differently just from a cursive glance.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Gargantua on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:35 am

The Ambassador in Yugoslavia ( Patterson ) to the Secretary of State
No. 174
Belgrade , December 6, 1945.
[Received December 19.]

Sir: I have the honor to enclose a memorandum concerning the Yugoslav elections to the Constituent Assembly on November 11, 1945, prepared by Vice-Consul Peter Constan, containing evidence of the intimidation of voters and commenting on the official election returns. The Embassy believes that this and other evidence it has received justify Mr. Constan’s conclusion that the elections of November 11 were the least free ever held in Yugoslavia and that the results announced bear no resemblance to the votes cast.

Embassy members visited some 20 polling places in Belgrade on election day and saw practically no unfairness at these places. This apparent decency was made much of in Yugoslav news releases
, which freely quoted statements of Left-Wing Members of Parliament and British journalists brought here by the Yugoslav government to observe the elections. This point, however, is unimportant in judging whether the elections gave the people of Yugoslavia a free opportunity to express their will at the polls. The decisive facts are that masses of people were frightened into voting for the National Front ticket; that the election machinery was entirely in the hands of the National Front; that there were no opposition or neutral observers in a position to verify the results; and that the unscrupulousness shown by the National Front in pre-election activities supports the belief that its members showed equally low ethical standards in submitting election returns.

The Embassy has received masses of detailed figures from unofficial observers indicating that in all localities reported upon the official returns were untrue. There is reason to believe that many, at least, of these reports are true since they come from observers in villages where the inhabitants are personally known to them.

Before the election several peasants came to the Embassy from considerable distances to tell us of the situation in their home villages. They generally told us that they came secretly and in fear of Ozna to beg us not to recognize the results of the elections, since, although nearly all the villagers were opposed to the regime, the majority would probably vote for it out of fear of what might happen to them or their families if they did not.

There is no good reason to doubt the evidence of intimidation reported by Mr. Constan since even government leaders went so far as to publicly state that it would be traitorous to vote against the Front. A threat of this kind is quite sufficient to intimidate a voter when he is convinced that his job, his clothing, food, shelter and freedom from prison for himself and his family depend upon his being known as a supporter of the National Front.

Mr. Constan’s memorandum contains much first hand information, including examples of two Yugoslav soldiers of American birth whose registration applications he had taken, and one of whom served twenty days in jail for falling out of formation while his unit was being marched to the polling booth to vote.

Mr. Constan offers the following comment on one Yugoslav propaganda item:

“Tito is proclaiming that this was the freest and quietest election ever held in Yugoslavia. I submit that a deadly quiet election in the Balkans, and I have seen many of them during the last 25 years, is proof positive of the lack of freedom. When Balkanites cannot have a fight during an election it means that they are afraid to speak their minds. As a matter of fact, in what part of the world, where freedom reigns, do people walk along silently and solemnly and separately, without the slightest show of demonstration, on an election day?”

There was, as the Yugoslav press announced, dancing in the streets far into the evening of election day, but its lack of the usual spontaneity indicated that numbers were dancing, as they had voted, under duress. Teraziye Square, Belgrade, on election night was reminiscent of a Times Square, New York, election night only because of the contrast.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:47 am

Rozita wrote:Nisam svesna broja Arena, svesna sam koristenja decentralizacije i postojanja veceg broja republicko/drzavnih producentskih kuca, ali ako je SFRJ bila netotalitarna zbog velikog broja nivoa vlasti, onda je dejtonska Bosna vrhunac demokratije: kantoni, distrikti, entiteti, pickematerine. Ok, Zika radi, a Lari Stenton, Milan Soklic, Adem Demaci na robiji, pojeo vuk magarca.

pa za pocetak ni sssr nije totalitaran. zapravo sama totalitarna paradigma koja insistira na odredjenom 'binarnom socijalizmu' je najblaze receno problematicna. stvari su se menjale, bile isprepletane i cesto bile labavije nego sto se misli.

drugo, ovde pricamo o jednom konkretnom nc-ovom postu. bugare, demacije, soklice i trecu armiju u evropi ostavljam drugima. 

trece, pavlovic je snimio veliki broj filmova, bioskopskih filmova, sa znacajnim budzetom i produkcijom koja je danas nezamisliva autorima. dovoljno je pogledati bas pomenuti dovidjenja u sledecem ratu. on je potpuno autor glavnog toka u jugoslaviji. to nije stvar decentralizacije vec zive kulturne produkcije, pa samim tim i filmske.

cetvrto, ne znam sta me tera da se dopisujem s tobom o ovome. idi pisi nesto o tvin piksu.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:49 am

Gargantua wrote:
The Ambassador in Yugoslavia ( Patterson ) to the Secretary of State
No. 174
Belgrade , December 6, 1945.
[Received December 19.]

Sir: I have the honor to enclose a memorandum concerning the Yugoslav elections to the Constituent Assembly on November 11, 1945, prepared by Vice-Consul Peter Constan, containing evidence of the intimidation of voters and commenting on the official election returns. The Embassy believes that this and other evidence it has received justify Mr. Constan’s conclusion that the elections of November 11 were the least free ever held in Yugoslavia and that the results announced bear no resemblance to the votes cast.

Embassy members visited some 20 polling places in Belgrade on election day and saw practically no unfairness at these places. This apparent decency was made much of in Yugoslav news releases
, which freely quoted statements of Left-Wing Members of Parliament and British journalists brought here by the Yugoslav government to observe the elections. This point, however, is unimportant in judging whether the elections gave the people of Yugoslavia a free opportunity to express their will at the polls. The decisive facts are that masses of people were frightened into voting for the National Front ticket; that the election machinery was entirely in the hands of the National Front; that there were no opposition or neutral observers in a position to verify the results; and that the unscrupulousness shown by the National Front in pre-election activities supports the belief that its members showed equally low ethical standards in submitting election returns.

The Embassy has received masses of detailed figures from unofficial observers indicating that in all localities reported upon the official returns were untrue. There is reason to believe that many, at least, of these reports are true since they come from observers in villages where the inhabitants are personally known to them.

Before the election several peasants came to the Embassy from considerable distances to tell us of the situation in their home villages. They generally told us that they came secretly and in fear of Ozna to beg us not to recognize the results of the elections, since, although nearly all the villagers were opposed to the regime, the majority would probably vote for it out of fear of what might happen to them or their families if they did not.

There is no good reason to doubt the evidence of intimidation reported by Mr. Constan since even government leaders went so far as to publicly state that it would be traitorous to vote against the Front. A threat of this kind is quite sufficient to intimidate a voter when he is convinced that his job, his clothing, food, shelter and freedom from prison for himself and his family depend upon his being known as a supporter of the National Front.

Mr. Constan’s memorandum contains much first hand information, including examples of two Yugoslav soldiers of American birth whose registration applications he had taken, and one of whom served twenty days in jail for falling out of formation while his unit was being marched to the polling booth to vote.

Mr. Constan offers the following comment on one Yugoslav propaganda item:

“Tito is proclaiming that this was the freest and quietest election ever held in Yugoslavia. I submit that a deadly quiet election in the Balkans, and I have seen many of them during the last 25 years, is proof positive of the lack of freedom. When Balkanites cannot have a fight during an election it means that they are afraid to speak their minds. As a matter of fact, in what part of the world, where freedom reigns, do people walk along silently and solemnly and separately, without the slightest show of demonstration, on an election day?”

There was, as the Yugoslav press announced, dancing in the streets far into the evening of election day, but its lack of the usual spontaneity indicated that numbers were dancing, as they had voted, under duress. Teraziye Square, Belgrade, on election night was reminiscent of a Times Square, New York, election night only because of the contrast.

jebote ovo o seljacima koji sipce do americke ambasade je prvoklasna budalastina.


_____
The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Gargantua on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:59 am

što?

zapravo su američke diplomate u ovom periodu (od početka oslobođenja do zatezanja odnosa tokom 1946) prvorazredan izvor. od tri sile (uk+sssr+sad) oni su najmanje uključeni u jugoslovensku politiku, nemaju mnogo veza ni kontakata, nemaju predratne i ratne repove, generalno tek "uče" šta se dešava na terenu, nemaju specifično definisane bilateralne interese koji bi bitno krivili analitičku sliku, pa su i komunisti prema njima znatno "blaži" i otvoreniji nego prema britancima koje gledaju pre svega kao sponzore srpske "reakcije".


Last edited by Gargantua on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Rozita on Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:59 am

Ko ne vidi da je Pavlovicev budzet bio toliki koliki je bio, bas zbog svega ovoga sto tebe ne interesuje, ne vidi nista.
No Country ovde jeste potpuno u pravu.
Mada je zanimljivo kako vas nekoliko koji ste ga uvek podrzavali kad je napusavao ona dva-tri decaka sto su nekonvencionalno komentarisali par forumskih orgija konsenzusa sad odjednom imate problem s njegovim navodnim simplifikacijama.
Mislim, nije posebno ni zanimljivo osim kao mali case study.


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Rosencrantz and Guildenstern could not be told apart
People muddled up their names right from the very start
Gertrude called one Guildenstern the other Rosecrantz
Claudius saw differently just from a cursive glance.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by William Murderface on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:03 am



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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Bluberi on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:06 am

Stari momce iz Kanade, mogao bi da malo bolje razmislis. Prvo i jedino moras shvatiti koju poziciju zauzimas i to bas u odnosu na Jugoslaviju, i na Tita, jer ako to ne uradis mozes doci u poziciju da si u pravu a da te po ramenima desnica tapse i sapuce u fazonu svaka cast majstore kako si uh razbucao. 
Sto se filma tice, procitaj Uvod u proslost.
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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by otto katz on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:09 am

Gargantua wrote:što?

zapravo su američke diplomate u ovom periodu (od početka oslobođenja do zatezanja odnosa tokom 1946) prvorazredan izvor. od tri sile (uk+sssr+sad) oni su najmanje uključeni u jugoslovensku politiku, nemaju mnogo veza ni kontakata, nemaju predratne i ratne repove, generalno tek "uče" šta se dešava na terenu, nemaju specifično definisane bilateralne interese koji bi bitno krivili analitičku sliku, pa su i komunisti prema njima znatno "blaži" i otvoreniji nego prema britancima koje gledaju pre svega kao sponzore srpske "reakcije".
Ja nemam nikakav problem s ovim svjedočenjima. Komunisti nisu dobili vlast ni legitimitet na slobodnim izborima, nego u oružanoj borbi. Nije mi jasno šta ovim ilustriraš.


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Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by Rozita on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:11 am

Zilnikova ispovest Budenu kao poslovicni kec na desetku.
I nije problem ako je covek u pravu, nego sto ce pogresni da ga tapsu po ramenima.
Ma sve bolje od boljeg.
Ovi mladji od 45 da ih se nekako i razume.
Ali ovi stariji bi morali da znaju da bi ovaj forum kao takav u nekoj analognoj formi mogucoj u to vreme bio podlozan zakonskoj sankciji.


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Rosencrantz and Guildenstern could not be told apart
People muddled up their names right from the very start
Gertrude called one Guildenstern the other Rosecrantz
Claudius saw differently just from a cursive glance.
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Posts : 18858
Join date : 2014-10-27

Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:12 am

pa nemam ni ja nacelno osim sto mi lici na maskirovku. seljak koji se panicno boji ozne tajno dolazi u americku ambasadu. ovo gotovo ko neko poglavlje filbijeve knjige moj tihi rat.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Posts : 18858
Join date : 2014-10-27

Re: WW2 revizionizam

Post by ostap bender on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:12 am

Rozita wrote:Zilnikova ispovest Budenu kao poslovicni kec na desetku.
I nije problem ako je covek u pravu, nego sto ce pogresni da ga tapsu po ramenima.
Ma sve bolje od boljeg.
Ovi mladji od 45 da ih se nekako i razume.
Ali ovi stariji bi morali da znaju da bi ovaj forum kao takav u nekoj analognoj formi mogucoj u to vreme bio podlozan zakonskoj sankciji.



_____
The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.

Re: WW2 revizionizam

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