Iransko proleće

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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by disident on Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:34 pm

Gargantua wrote:
Protests in Iran fanned by exiled journalist, messaging app





DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — As protests over Iran’s faltering economy rapidly spread across the country, a channel on a mobile messaging app run by an exiled journalist helped fan the passions of some of those who took to the street.


The Telegram app closed a channel run by Roohallah Zam after Iranian authorities complained that it was inciting violence, just hours before the government shut down the app entirely on Sunday. Zam, who denies the allegations, meanwhile launched new channels to spread messages about upcoming protests and share videos from demonstrations.

What happens next could influence the future course of the largest protests Iran has seen since 2009.


It’s hard to overstate the power of Telegram in Iran. Of its 80 million people, an estimated 40 million use the free app created by Russian national Pavel Durov. Its clients share videos and photos, subscribing to groups where everyone from politicians to poets broadcast to fellow users.

While authorities ban social media websites like Facebook and Twitter and censor others, Telegram users can say nearly anything. In the last presidential election, the app played a big role in motivating turnout and spreading political screeds.

Telegram touts itself as being highly encrypted and allows users to set their messages to “self-destruct” after a certain period, making it a favorite among activists and others concerned about their privacy. That too has made it a worry of Iranian authorities.

Zam has used the app to share news and information published by his AmadNews website. Posts included times and locations for protests, as well as videos of demonstrators shouting inflammatory chants, including those targeting Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and President Hassan Rouhani, a relative moderate in Iran’s clerically overseen government.

Thousands have taken to the streets of several cities over the past three days to vent anger at high unemployment and rising prices, in the largest demonstrations since those that followed a disputed election nine years ago.


Officials have meanwhile targeted Telegram in recent remarks, with prosecutors going as far as filing criminal charges against Durov.

On Saturday, Iran’s Telecommunications Minister Mohammad Javad Azari Jahromi wrote to Durov on Twitter, complaining AmadNews was “encouraging hateful conduct, use (of) Molotov cocktails, armed uprising and social unrest.”

Durov responded by saying Telegram suspended the account.

“A Telegram channel (Amadnews) started to instruct their subscribers to use Molotov cocktails against police and got suspended due to our ‘no calls for violence’ rule. Be careful — there are lines one shouldn’t cross.” Durov tweeted.

Zam, who has said he fled Iran after being falsely accused of working with foreign intelligence services, denied inciting violence on Telegram.

Telegram’s decision drew criticism from free internet advocates and Iranians. Edward Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who exposed U.S. government surveillance programs in 2013, said Telegram should instead be working on how to make the service accessible after a potential government ban.

“Telegram will face increasing pressure over time to collaborate with the Iranian government’s demands for this or that,” Snowden wrote on Twitter. He added: “You can’t keep an independent, destabilizing service from being blocked in authoritarian regimes, you can only delay it.”

Those words proved prophetic Sunday, as Durov himself wrote on Twitter that Iran blocked the app “for the majority of Iranians after our public refusal to shut down ... peacefully protesting channels.” Iranian state television later quoted an anonymous official as saying the app would be temporarily limited as a safety measure.

It also marks a setback for Zam, the son of Shiite cleric Mohammad Ali Zam, a reformist who once served in a government policy position in the early 1980s. The cleric wrote a letter published by Iranian media in July in which he said he wouldn’t support his son over AmadNews’ reporting and messages on its Telegram channel.


“I found that you crossed the red line,” the cleric wrote, referring to comments the channel circulated about Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. “Our red line is the supreme leader, but you passed the red line.”

Zam did not respond to a request for comment Sunday from The Associated Press, though he published a video late Saturday on the channel being blocked.

“Unfortunately the Amadnews was blocked,” Zam said in a message to his followers. A new channel “will continue its work as hard as before and with the help of God, we will become millions again.”

At least 1.7 million people have viewed the first message on the new channel, according to Telegram. It called for protests Sunday at sites across Iran before the government ordered the app shut down.

https://www.apnews.com/78a46cea167e4f94ada0a690b7f2f3db/Protests-in-Iran-fanned-by-exiled-journalist,-messaging-app
Ja sam jutros preleteo preko slicne vesti bunovan i procitao da im gase telegram da se ne bi okupljali 


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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:41 pm

možda nije preterano bitno, ali evo dobar thread zašto će gomila komentara koji iskoče iz vašingtona na ovu temu biti iskrivljeni bs

Spoiler:

https://twitter.com/Max_Fisher/status/947500376835620867
Max Fisher Verified account @Max_Fisher
1h

I don't know what's happening in Iran (and neither do you), so I will tell you about something I do know: DC, and why any discussion about Iran makes it absolutely completely 100% insane.

The spoiler alert here is that DC's debates aren't really about Iran. They're about us and our place in the world. That's why they're so vicious, and exactly the same for the 2009 protests, the bomb Iran debates, the nuclear deal, and the 2016 boat incident.

As @JyShapiro wrote in 2015 on the nuke deal: the actual terms don't matter for DC, whose debates weren't about arms control. They were about what kind of power America should be in the world. - https://t.co/qvczSS3bP7

Iran forces DC to confront these questions about itself because the Islamic Republic, by merely existing, challenges American global preeminence. Especially in the MidEast, where that preeminence is most fraught and a topic that also makes Americans crazy.

The continued existence of Iran forces Americans to consider whether it's okay to have corners of the world beyond our control and influence, or if this is an affront and inherent threat to the United States.

(You can tell the debates are not really about human rights, democracy, or "American values" because the loudest voices say Iran must be opposed by supporting Saudi Arabia, one of the few countries worse than Iran on all measures.)

At core it's an intra-DC debate about our national identity. Are we just a country that happens to be big, powerful, and democratic? Or are we an intrinsic force for good in the world?

If you believe the latter – as many in DC do – then the Islamic Republic isn't just an authoritarian state whose regional agenda threatens US interests. It is, by existing, an affront and threat to our very national identity and sense of ourselves.

This is also why debates over US foreign policy toward Iran often descend into shouting matches over whether its government is "legitimate." It's hard for many in DC to believe that an anti-American government could ever truly be legitimate.

Of course it's not just about identity. There's a real foreign policy disagreement here. In the Cold War, we drank our own koolaid and came to see American global dominance as not just desirable but as necessary and correct.

In this view, any challenge to that dominance — even ideological — is a threat to the whole world. It's a worldview of black-and-white, good-vs-evil. Any event is fit into that framework.

To be clear, the other side of this intra-DC argument can be just as prone to navel-gazing and oversimplification. For them, overturning the Cold War black-and-white worldview is what primarily matters. So any event is a chance to prove the other side wrong.

I wrote a deeper version of this argument here, on why Iran makes everybody in DC totally crazy. So when you see DC folks sniping at each other, know they're not really arguing about Iran, but about America's place in the world: https://t.co/dTtBRcvEHB

One thing to add: After 9 years in DC I have never seen it more toxic or divided than it was by the Iran deal in 2015. It’s hard to understate how viciously people disagreed, and how personal their disputes became. Friendships ended; resentments and grudges formed.

The DC foreign policy community is really small. The size of a small high school. Divides over Iran go much deeper than partisanship, or even tribal identity. It’s often personal. That’s a very big part of why it’s already gotten so toxic over the Iran protests.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Blind Lime Pie on Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:47 pm

Bitno je kada se uzme u obzir da je Tramp već dva puta podržao demonstrante (kako li će tramptardi ovo racionalizovati, živ nisam da čujem). A bitno je i razumeti odnose veličina ovde: Trampova podrška ni na koji način neće izmeniti tok deśavanja u Iranu. To je velika zemlja sa složenom unutrašnjom dinamikom u kojoj je načelna podrška SAD samo očekivani i nebitni šum.


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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Zuper on Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:58 pm



A u Beogradu muk...

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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by beatakeshi on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:01 pm

Nijedna zabrađena.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:02 pm

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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Filipenko on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:14 pm

Ponosan sam na iransku demokratičnost i atlantizam, koji će bez sumnje još jednom pokazati da je Persija večna dok su joj deca verna 

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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Zuper on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:22 pm


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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by MNE on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:31 pm

Blind Lime Pie wrote:Bitno je kada se uzme u obzir da je Tramp već dva puta podržao demonstrante (kako li će tramptardi ovo racionalizovati, živ nisam da čujem). A bitno je i razumeti odnose veličina ovde: Trampova podrška ni na koji način neće izmeniti tok deśavanja u Iranu. To je velika zemlja sa složenom unutrašnjom dinamikom u kojoj je načelna podrška SAD samo očekivani i nebitni šum.
racionalizovati šta? Trampova politika je od starta za Izrael i kontra Irana tj. njihvoe vlasti, ne vidim zašto bi ovo ikoga čudilo
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:45 pm

https://twitter.com/thekarami/status/947517809193394176
Arash Karami @thekarami

Rouhani: protests are legal but they must be in a way that at the end they lead to a better situation in the country for the people.

Some of the economic problems have roots in the past and some are related to today. ...The people's criticism is not just on the economy but also on corruption and transparency.

Rouhani: Criticism and destroying public buildings are completely different.

Rouhani on Trump: This gentleman who today sympathizes with our people a few months ago called us a terrorist nation and from his head to his toe has been against Iran.

Rouhani: The expectations and demands of the people are correct. But it is not acceptable to choose a path that creates problems or makes the enemy happy.

Rouhani: People must feel that they can express themselves in the media but the administration will not tolerate those who want to destroy public buildings or riot in the street.

Rouhani: I thank the security forces whose actions with the people was not violent and were patient.

---

I didn't notice anything ground breaking in Rouhani's speech. He accepts criticism on the economy and corruption and seems to agree with it. However, he also wants order in society (he was Secretary of Supreme National Security Council for 16 years after all).
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:47 pm

John Kerry Verified account @JohnKerry
 1 hour ago

With humility about how little we know about what's happening inside Iran, this much is clear: it's an Iranian moment and not anyone else's. But the rights of people to protest peacefully and voice their aspirations are universal and governments everywhere should respect that.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by No Country on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:52 pm

Ако постоји народ који заслужује бољу власт него што је има, то су Иранци.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by William Murderface on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:59 pm

Iznenadjujuce odmerena izjava (Kerijeva).


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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Mr. Moonlight on Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:01 pm

No Country wrote:Ако постоји народ који заслужује бољу власт него што је има, то су Иранци.

i ja to mislim za sve narode koje ne poznajem dovoljno dobro
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:40 pm

^^ da, dobar je keri
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Filipenko on Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:45 pm

William Murderface wrote:Iznenadjujuce odmerena izjava (Kerijeva).

Gargantua wrote:^^ da, dobar je keri

Kao i uvek kada odu sa vlasti, odjednom se sete.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Blind Lime Pie on Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:52 pm

Filipenko wrote:
William Murderface wrote:Iznenadjujuce odmerena izjava (Kerijeva).

Gargantua wrote:^^ da, dobar je keri

Kao i uvek kada odu sa vlasti, odjednom se sete.

Pričaš o arhitekti nuklearnog dila sa Iranom, što je bio verovatno najmudriji potez Obamine administracije.


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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Filipenko on Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:54 pm

Firer slobodnog sveta tvrdi da je to najgori sporazum ikada.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:51 pm

back to life, back to reality:

Iran state TV: 12 killed in protests, attacks on security


TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — At least 12 people have been killed in the ongoing protests in Iran, and armed protesters have tried to take over police stations and military bases, state TV reported Monday.

The protests began Thursday in Mashhad over economic issues and have since expanded to several cities, with some protesters chanting against the government and the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Hundreds of people have been arrested.

The state TV report said 10 were killed during clashes Sunday night, without elaborating. Two demonstrators were killed during a protest in western Iran late Saturday.

“Some armed protesters tried to take over some police stations and military bases but faced serious resistance from security forces,” state TV reported. It did not say where those attacks occurred.

State TV aired images of burning buildings, as well as an ambulance crew trying to aid a wounded person amid a crowd of shouting people. It also showed a fire truck that appeared to have been attacked and burned.

Later Monday, state TV said six people were killed in the western town of Tuyserkan, 295 kilometers (185 miles) southwest of Tehran. It said three others were killed in the town of Shahinshahr, 315 kilometers (195 miles) south of Tehran. It did not say where the 10th person was killed.

Earlier Monday, the semi-official ILNA news agency quoted Hedayatollah Khademi, a representative for the town of Izeh, as saying two people died there Sunday night. It was not clear if they were included in the state TV toll.

He said the cause of death wasn’t immediately known. Many in Izeh, some 455 kilometers (280 miles) southwest of Tehran, have hunting rifles in their homes.

On Sunday, Iran blocked access to Instagram and the popular messaging app Telegram used by activists to organize. President Hassan Rouhani acknowledged the public’s anger over the Islamic Republic’s flagging economy, though he and others warned that the government wouldn’t hesitate to crack down on those it considers lawbreakers.

That was echoed Monday by Iranian judiciary chief Ayatollah Sadegh Larijani, who urged authorities to strongly confront rioters, state TV reported.

“I demand all prosecutors across the country to get involved and approach should be strong,” he said.

U.S. President Donald Trump, who has been tweeting in support of protesters in Iran, continued into the New Year, describing the country as “failing at every level despite the terrible deal made with them by the Obama Administration.”

“The great Iranian people have been repressed for many years,” he wrote. “They are hungry for food & for freedom. Along with human rights, the wealth of Iran is being looted. TIME FOR CHANGE!”

While some have shared Trump’s tweets, many in Iran distrust him as he’s refused to re-certify the nuclear deal and as his travel bans have blocked Iranians from getting U.S. visas.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:42 am

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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:14 pm

Khamenei says ‘enemies of Iran’ meddling in deadly unrest


TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Clashes overnight between protesters and security forces in Iran killed nine people, state television reported Tuesday, including some rioters who tried to storm a police station to steal weapons.

The demonstrations, the largest to strike Iran since its disputed 2009 presidential election, have seen six days of unrest across the country and a death toll of at least 20. Offering his first comments since they began, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei on Tuesday accused the “enemies of Iran” of meddling in the country’s affairs.

The protests began Thursday in Mashhad over Iran’s weak economy and a jump in food prices and have expanded to several cities, with some protesters chanting against the government and the supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. Hundreds of people have been arrested and a prominent judge on Tuesday warned that some could face death penalty trials.

State TV reported that six people were killed during an attack on a police station in the town of Qahdarijan. It reported that clashes were sparked by rioters who tried to steal guns from the police station.

State TV also said an 11-year-old boy and a 20-year-old man were killed in the town of Khomeinishahr, while a member of Iran’s paramilitary Revolutionary Guard was killed in the town of Najafabad. It says all three were shot by hunting rifles, which are common in the Iranian countryside.

The towns are all in Iran’s central Isfahan province, some 350 kilometers (215 miles) south of Tehran.

It wasn’t immediately clear if the Revolutionary Guard member was the same fatality reported late Monday night by Iran’s semi-official Mehr news agency. Mehr had said an assailant using a hunting rifle killed a policeman and wounded three others in Najafabad.

Monday marked the first night to see a fatality among Iran’s security forces.

President Hassan Rouhani has acknowledged the public’s anger over the Islamic Republic’s flagging economy, though he and others warned that the government wouldn’t hesitate to crack down on those it considers lawbreakers. All the protest rallies so far haven’t received prior permission from the Interior Ministry, making them illegal under Iranian law.

In comments posted to his official website, Khamenei appeared to blame foreign nations for at least exacerbating the unrest gripping Iran.

“In the recent days’ incidents, enemies of Iran utilized various means — including money, weapon, politics and intelligence apparatuses — to create problems for the Islamic system,” he said.

Khamenei said he would elaborate further in the coming days.

In Tehran alone, 450 protesters have been arrested in the last three days, the semi-official ILNA news agency reported Tuesday. ILNA quoted Ali Asghar Nasserbakht, a security deputy governor of Tehran, as saying security forces arrested 200 protesters Saturday, 150 Sunday and 100 Monday. So far, authorities have not released a nationwide figure for arrests.

The head of Tehran’s Revolutionary Court also reportedly warned Tuesday that arrested protesters could potentially face death penalty cases when they come to trial.

Iran’s semi-official Tasnim news agency quoted Mousa Ghazanfarabadi as saying: “Obviously one of their charges can be Moharebeh,” or waging war against God. That’s a death penalty offense in Iran.

Ghazanfarabadi also was quoted as saying some protesters will come to trial soon on charges of acting against national security and damaging public properties.

Iran’s Revolutionary Court handles cases involving alleged attempts to overthrow the government.

The protests began over Iran’s economy, which has improved since the nuclear deal that saw Iran agree to limit its enrichment of uranium in exchange for the end of some international sanctions. Tehran now sells its oil on the global market and has signed deals to purchase tens of billions of dollars’ worth of Western aircraft.

That improvement has not reached the average Iranian, however. Unemployment remains high, and official inflation has crept up to 10 percent again. A recent increase in egg and poultry prices by as much as 40 percent, which the government has blamed on a cull over avian flu fears, appears to have been the spark for the economic protests.


https://www.apnews.com/0337232e446e41e49211dc71a788e152/Khamenei-says-'enemies-of-Iran'-meddling-in-deadly-unrest
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Gargantua on Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:56 pm

@AP
BREAKING: Ambassador Nikki Haley says U.S. calling for U.N. Security Council and Human Rights Council emergency sessions on Iran
.....

Good luck

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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by Zuper on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:19 pm

IRAN'S REVOLUTIONARY GUARDS SAY PROTESTS HAVE ENDED: ISNA




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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by KinderLad on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:56 pm

Neće biti dovoljno zidova i zatvora za njih kad se jednom ti protesti stvarno - završe. Onako kako će se jednom - završiti.
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Re: Iransko proleće

Post by fikret selimbašić on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:46 pm

Kad tako jednom završe, teško da će ovi iz RG i vidjeti zatvora. Zidove ne sumnjam da hoće.

Re: Iransko proleće

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