Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Sat 16 Sep 2017 - 19:41

Ma, mislim, ima hiljadu varijanti. Prvo, ubedjen sam da ne bi uspeo. Drugo, ako je za 1 CG dogovoreno da mora da bude jasna vecina (55%) onda se i u pregovorima za ovaj referendum moglo dogovoriti nesto u tom smislu. Pa onda ko ima pravo glasa. ALi numeju Spanci na finjaka... No, ok, ako su odlucili da rade "seljacki" nek se drze toga do kraja. Mesane poruke su najgore. Ovako, sila jbg, pojo vuk magarca i gotovo. Mada, ostace problem da tinja, referendumom bi ga resili.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Gargantua on Sat 16 Sep 2017 - 19:42

Mislim da je tvrda opcija za nezavisnost jača u Kataloniji nego u Škotskoj, i da joj je manji posao nego SNP-u da nagura rezultat. Pritom, da je referendum legalan to bi još relaksiralo njihove pozicije, mase ljudi prosto ne žele lom i siledžisanje.
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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Sat 16 Sep 2017 - 19:46

Gargantua wrote:Mislim da je tvrda opcija za nezavisnost jača u Kataloniji nego u Škotskoj, i da joj je manji posao nego SNP-u da nagura rezultat. Pritom, da je referendum legalan to bi još relaksiralo njihove pozicije, mase ljudi prosto ne žele lom i siledžisanje.

Dobro, oni sigurno bolje poynaju situaciju od mene, to je sto posto. Tako da ako ne zele lom i siledzisanje sad samo mogu da se pomire sa sudbinom, jer ako se ne pomire siledzisanja ce biti apsolutno garantovano. Jednostavno Spanija ih nece pustiti da se otcepe i to je to.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 0:58



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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 1:31

Pa to fakticki znaci da nezavisnost nema podrsku polovine stanovnistva.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Gargantua on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 10:10

par crtica oko referenduma


The pitfalls of Catalonia's independence referendum

BY DIEGO URDANETA (AFP)     SEP 15, 2017 


Catalan authorities are racing to stage an independence referendum slated for October 1 which Spain's central government has vowed to stop.

The following are the key pitfalls of the planned plebiscite:

Electoral authority

According to the Venice Commission -- a panel of experts who advise the Council of Europe on constitutional law -- a referendum must be organised by an "impartial body".
While Catalonia's referendum law created an electoral commission composed of five members, they all have links with the separatists.

Polling stations

The Catalan government wants the referendum to be similar to a regional election. During the last regional election in September 2015 a total of 8,177 polling stations were set up across the region.
Of Catalonia's 948 municipalities, over 700 mainly smaller ones have pledged to provide locations for polling stations. Several large cities have refused.
Spain's central government has warned Catalan mayors that it is their duty to "prevent or block any initiative related to the organisation of the referendum".

Election material

The production of ballots for the referendum has been a headache for Catalan officials, who complain police have searched companies suspected of producing them.
Despite the difficulties, Catalan President Carles Puigdemont announced at the end of August that his government had over 6,000 boxes ready for the referendum but would not say where they were being kept, fearing Spanish authorities would seize them.

Voter registration

Catalonia's recently approved electoral law specifies that the census of people who are entitled to take part in the poll include "voters resident in Catalonia and outside residents".
It closed its voter registration on March 30 but has not revealed how it obtained its list of eligible voters.
Spain's central government argues it has the exclusive authority to carry out an electoral census, which means the Catalan government may have violated Spain's data protection laws.
Electoral lists must be transparent and public.
Some 5.5 million Catalans were eligible to vote in Catalonia’s last regional election in 2015, including 200,000 who lived abroad.

Staffing

Each polling station must have a president and two assistants who are chosen in a draw from the list of names on the electoral census. This means at least 24,000 people will be needed to carry out the referendum.
The regional government is also seeking thousands of volunteers to help it stage the vote.
Spain's central government has warned that Catalan officials and civil servants could face sanctions, and even criminal charges, if they help organise the vote in any way but it has remained unclear about if volunteers could face trouble as well.

Security


The Catalan government is counting on its regional police force, the Mossos d'Esquadra, to provide security on the referendum day. But Spain's Constitutional Court has asked police forces not to participate in the organisation of the vote.

The campaign

The referendum law stipulates the official campaign will be held September 15-29.
All political parties with representation in the regional assembly are allowed free airtime on television and radio to make their case to voters.
But there are doubts that parties that oppose Catalan independence, and are calling for voters to abstain from taking part in the referendum, will use their airtime, giving the vote less legitimacy.

Observers

The Catalan referendum law calls for the participation of international observers. So far only one name has been unveiled, that of Daan Everts, a Dutch expert on Kosovo.
He is expected to lead an observation mission made up of people from the United States, France, Britain and Poland. Their identity has not yet been disclosed.

The results

The election commission must guarantee that the referendum respects voting rules, deal with appeals and announce the result. But since its members are all from the separatist camp, its decisions will undoubtebly be contested.
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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Filipenko on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 10:47

Oh, šta li će sada da urade, valjda neće da krenu u borbu za nezavisnost svim demokratskim sredstvima kao Kučkan, Sranjo, Balija...? 
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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 12:50

Holandjanin 


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 23:01



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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by diktotar on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 23:06

Filipenko wrote:Oh, šta li će sada da urade, valjda neće da krenu u borbu za nezavisnost svim demokratskim sredstvima kao Kučkan, Sranjo, Balija...? 

ne ali ce srbija i spanija zajedno priznati kosovo i kataloniju, pre finala sledeceg ep


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Mon 18 Sep 2017 - 23:43

Ma...sta ce Srbija uraditi i sta ce joj se desiti to je anyone's guess, ali Spanija...to malo teze. Jedino sto im pametniji (recimo Financial Times) mislim mudro predlazu da priznaju gresku iz 2010 kad su povukli vec izglasane finansijske prerogative za Katalunju i to sprovedu.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Gargantua on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 9:30

@spectatorindex
BREAKING: Spanish police have broken into and raided Catalan government's departments of the interior, foreign affairs and economy.

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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Zuper on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 9:40

Budale. Referendum sigurno ne bi prosao jer je ekonomija napumpana preko ECB, druga stvar je koliko je to odrzivo, sa ovim akcijama prema Kataloniji samo stvaraju odijum i potencijal za radikalizaciju kada riba opet pocne lose da grize u ekonomiji.
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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 10:19

Gargantua wrote:@spectatorindex
BREAKING: Spanish police have broken into and raided Catalan government's departments of the interior, foreign affairs and economy.



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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 14:15

Zuper wrote:Budale. Referendum sigurno ne bi prosao jer je ekonomija napumpana preko ECB, druga stvar je koliko je to odrzivo, sa ovim akcijama prema Kataloniji samo stvaraju odijum i potencijal za radikalizaciju kada riba opet pocne lose da grize u ekonomiji.

To i ja mislim, ali...


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by ostap bender on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 14:46

Hubert de Montmirail wrote:btw, sad su polsteri već sigurni da AfD neće ići ispod 12%, što im daje oko 85 poslanika.

to ce i cdu da gurne udesno.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Gargantua on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 17:12

Koji referendum, he he

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BREAKING: Confirmation that Spanish police confiscated 10 million ballots set to have been used in Catalonia independence referendum.
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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by William Murderface on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 17:13

Nobody expects the Spanish police.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Ointagru Unartan on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 17:15



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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 17:58

William Murderface wrote:Nobody expects the Spanish police.



A sta ce 10 miliona listica kad ima 5 i nesto miliona glasaca? 


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Gargantua on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 18:08

bitno je ko broji 
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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 19:29

dobro je što ih ovo neće radikalizovati. cienim da će i Baski uskoro dići glavu


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Gargantua on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 19:40

Nisam ja detaljno otpratio, ima i pohapsenih katalonskih ministara



Protests in Barcelona after police raid Catalan government buildings
Euronews
20/09/2017

Junior economy minister has been arrested as police searches for documents linked to the Catalan independence referendum.

Protests were sparked after Spanish police raided several offices of the Catalan government in Barcelona on Wednesday (September 20) morning.

Josep Maria Jove, Catalonia’s junior economy minister, and a dozen high-ranking officials have been arrested, according to reports.

Spain’s Guarda Civil barged into Catalan governmental headquarters of the economy, interior, foreign affairs, welfare, telecommunications and tax, searching for documents linked to the banned independence referendum, which is set to take place on October 1st.

Madrid considers the vote to be illegal but the pro-independence movement plans to hold the referendum regardless.

The police raids prompted thousands of protesters onto the streets of Barcelona, many gathering outside the regional government’s economy ministry in the centre of the tourist district, chanting “They will not pass” and “We will vote”, a Reuters witness said.

Catalan President, Carles Puigdemont complained of a power grab. “Spain has enacted a “de facto” suspension of Catalonia’s autonomy and has “de facto” applied the state of emergency. The freedom is being suspended and repressed,” he said.

However, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy said the state had been forced to act. “We are acting according to our duties and we’ll keep doing that until the end… this is a police operation ordered by the judge and any democrat, I don’t know if you are one, but we have to obey what is decided by one of the three powers of the State.”

The raids come after police seized a box of election material on Tuesday (September 19).

Guarda Civil’s operation is sparking strong reactions from pro-independence protesters.

Jordi Sanchez, president of the Catalan National Assembly had earlier invited people to demonstrate on the streets
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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Hubert de Montmirail on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 20:08

At least 14 high ranking officials of the Catalan government have been arrested. There are multiple reports of the Spanish paramilitary police entering the buildings without a valid search warrant. The internet and phone acces to the regional Department of Economy has been cut and its communications interrupted.
The headquarters of the left wing pro-independence CUP party have been encircled by masked police. They are about to force their way in.
The spokesman of the Catalan Bar Association has denounced the indiscriminate police raids of lawyers' offices.
Rectors of all Catalan universities have issued a joined statement condemning the State's repression.
Thousands of people are gathering in the center of Barcelona, denouncing what they call a coup and demanding a general strike.
In the meantime, the Spanish Ministry of the Interior has contracted three cruisers to host the special police units sent to Catalonia to prevent the vote. They know they will be unwelcome in the city.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

Post by Kinder Lad on Wed 20 Sep 2017 - 20:14

Hubert de Montmirail wrote:dobro je što ih ovo neće radikalizovati. cienim da će i Baski uskoro dići glavu

Razlika je u tome sto su Baskima dali da raspolazu svojim novcem u totalu (imaju dogovoreno koliko salju u Madrid) i to su se zajebali sto nisu uradili i sa Katalunjom, tj sto su to opovrgli a obecali su. Anyhow, istorija nas uci da se Madrid ne zajebava, a imajuci u vidu sta su sve bili spremni da im tolerisu tokom smutnih vremena borbi sa djavolima na Istoku...bio bih jako oprezan da sam na mestu Katalonaca pre nego sto bih posegnuo za necim radikalnijim.


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Re: Kataloniji u čast - mogući referendoom

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