EU - what's next?

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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Miki on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:38 am

Nije uklonjen nego premešten u prigodnu temu "Ruski medved i pijani šaran"
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:10 pm



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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Zuper on Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:52 pm

It may not mean all that much that the SPD organization in a state of Thuringia has already, and preemptively, rejected the grand coalition. The talks haven't even started, there is no deal on the table and, who knows, Martin Schulz may pull off a few surprises in the upcoming talks.
 
But, as of now, we sense no support for a grand coalition and no shift in the overwhelmingly negative views of SPD members. [Yet] two senior SPD leaders spoke at the regional party congress: the deputy leader Thorsten Schä­fer-Güm­bel and Carsten Schneider, who represent the left and right wings of the party respectively, and who both support the official policy of seeking talks with the CDU/CSU.
 
One of the people who is pressing hard for a new grand coalition is Sigmar Gabriel, who hopes to secure the job of finance minister in such a construction. He writes in Der Spiegel that it does not matter for the survival of the SPD whether it is in government or not. This is a statement many SPD members, including Schulz, do not agree with.
 
Gabriel is urging the party to shift to the right by embracing a nationalist concept - the notion of the innate superiority of German culture ("Leitkultur"), a notion once championed but later dropped by the CDU, and bitterly opposed by all the other parties in the Bundestag.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Guest on Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:28 pm

Aktiviran član 7 protiv Poljske,  sledi glasanje.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Daï Djakman Faré on Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:03 pm



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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:18 am

Hungary veto sets scene for EU battle on Poland

Hungary and the Czech Republic have backed Poland in its dispute with the EU, as the war on rule of law moved to a larger arena.
Hungary promised to veto EU sanctions on Poland after the European Commission triggered a punitive process over Polish judicial reforms on Wednesday (20 December).
"We shall defend Poland in the face of an unfair, fabricated political procedure," Hungary's deputy prime minister Zsolt Semjen said the same day.
"Hungarian-Polish friendship and the Hungarian government's commitment to treaties bind us to oppose the commission's move," he said.
The Czech Republic reacted at a higher level, but with no concrete pledge.
The Czech prime minister, Andrej Babis, phoned his Polish counterpart Mateusz Morawiecki. He said he was "convinced that the European Commission's position stems from a lack of communication" and said "the continuation of the [sanctions] process could have a negative impact on the whole region".



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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Desmond Bojčinski on Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:35 am

Zuper wrote: nego sto Francuska ili Nemacka zele da sada zatezu sa Varsavom...

Čini mi se, ne znam da li grešim, da Francuzi imaju neviđenu kurcobolju za taj deo sveta. Da se ozbiljnije cimaju zbog Afričkih vukojebina i da ozbiljnije sarađuje Le Penka sa njihovim dverašima nego li na zvaničnom nivou.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Daï Djakman Faré on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:00 pm

William Murderface wrote:Hungary veto sets scene for EU battle on Poland

Hungary and the Czech Republic have backed Poland in its dispute with the EU, as the war on rule of law moved to a larger arena.
Hungary promised to veto EU sanctions on Poland after the European Commission triggered a punitive process over Polish judicial reforms on Wednesday (20 December).
"We shall defend Poland in the face of an unfair, fabricated political procedure," Hungary's deputy prime minister Zsolt Semjen said the same day.
"Hungarian-Polish friendship and the Hungarian government's commitment to treaties bind us to oppose the commission's move," he said.
The Czech Republic reacted at a higher level, but with no concrete pledge.
The Czech prime minister, Andrej Babis, phoned his Polish counterpart Mateusz Morawiecki. He said he was "convinced that the European Commission's position stems from a lack of communication" and said "the continuation of the [sanctions] process could have a negative impact on the whole region".

cek jel madjari stvarno mogu to da urade ? mislim ako mogu onda ce se cela visegradska grupa tako medjusobno braniti i konstnatno opstruirati sve napore komisije da ih disciplinuje.


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--to give the metals back their alchemical significance that has been neglected since the beginnings of the industrial revolution
--to alienate common apparati/mechanismi to create a perpetuum mobile called Motor Sehn-Sucht--
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Mr. Moonlight on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:06 pm

ne verujem da će to tako moći, ako vladajuće grupe u okviru eu vide da su razni orbani suviš moćni, predložiće za par godina novi nacrt zakona, koji će komisije odobriti posle par godine, ukoliko budu imale konsenzus

najbaće poljaci, najkasnije do kraja ovog veka, nije se zezati sa eu


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:11 pm

Izgleda da mogu, i da je jedini način da se to spreči istovremeno trigerovanje člana 7 i za Mađarsku.

http://politicalcritique.org/cee/poland/2017/can-poland-be-sanctioned-by-the-eu-not-unless-hungary-is-sanctioned-too/


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Guest on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:15 pm

Pravila EU su pisana u idealističkom duhu očekivanja da u zajednici nikada neće doći do problema ovakve vrste. Zato je sistem toliko nefleksibilan da svaki spor može da dovede, lančanom reakcijom, do raspada EU.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:17 pm

O tome sve vreme i pričam.

Izgleda da je kvaka u ovome:

Article 7


1. On a reasoned proposal by one third of the Member States, by the European Parliament or by the European Commission, the Council, acting by a majority of four fifths of its members after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament, may determine that there is a clear risk of a serious breach by a Member State of the values referred to in Article 2. Before making such a determination, the Council shall hear the Member State in question and may address recommendations to it, acting in accordance with the same procedure. The Council shall regularly verify that the grounds on which such a determination was made continue to apply.

2. The European Council, acting by unanimity on a proposal by one third of the Member States or by the European Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament, may determine the existence of a serious and persistent breach by a Member State of the values referred to in Article 2 after inviting the Member State in question to submit its observations.

3. Where a determination under paragraph 2 has been made, the Council, acting by a qualified majority, may decide to suspend certain of the rights deriving from the application of the Treaties to the Member State in question, including the voting rights of the representative of the government of that Member State in the Council. In doing so, the Council shall take into account the possible consequences of such a suspension on the rights and obligations of natural and legal persons.

The obligations of the Member State in question under the Treaties shall in any case continue to be binding on that State.

4. The Council, acting by a qualified majority, may decide subsequently to vary or revoke measures taken under paragraph 3 in response to changes in the situation which led to their being imposed.

5. The voting arrangements applying to the European Parliament, the European Council and the Council for the purposes of this Article are laid down in Article 354of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.


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"Oni kroz mene gledaju u vas! Oni kroz njega gledaju u vas! Oni kroz vas gledaju u mene... i u sve nas."

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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:22 pm

S druge strane, evo šta piše DW

How does Article 7 work?
The Article 7 process itself is a two-phased procedure.
First: A proposal to trigger Article 7 can be brought forward by the European Parliament, the European Commission or by one-third of member states.
Then, a four-fifths majority of member states in the EU Council must then determine that state in question is in clear breach of EU values in order to adopt the proposal. In Poland's case, this would prevent member states, say its allies in the Visegard Group, to halt the process. The proposal must also have the backing of the European Parliament.
Second: The next phase sees the Council give a formal warning and table recommendations to the country in question. Once it issues its response, member states must decide unanimously launch sanctions and suspend voting rights. This is where the execution of Article 7 and its consequences may stall.

Eto, lepo, nisam pametan.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Daï Djakman Faré on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:24 pm

William Murderface wrote:Izgleda da mogu, i da je jedini način da se to spreči istovremeno trigerovanje člana 7 i za Mađarsku.

http://politicalcritique.org/cee/poland/2017/can-poland-be-sanctioned-by-the-eu-not-unless-hungary-is-sanctioned-too/
pa onda je to dobra stvar jer ce ubrzati pokretanje postupka i protiv madjarske. znaci stave i madjarsku u paket (sto bi svakako doslo na red) i onda priprete ceskoj i to je to ?


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--to alienate common apparati/mechanismi to create a perpetuum mobile called Motor Sehn-Sucht--
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Daï Djakman Faré on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:25 pm

William Murderface wrote:S druge strane, evo šta piše DW

How does Article 7 work?
The Article 7 process itself is a two-phased procedure.
First: A proposal to trigger Article 7 can be brought forward by the European Parliament, the European Commission or by one-third of member states.
Then, a four-fifths majority of member states in the EU Council must then determine that state in question is in clear breach of EU values in order to adopt the proposal. In Poland's case, this would prevent member states, say its allies in the Visegard Group, to halt the process. The proposal must also have the backing of the European Parliament.
Second: The next phase sees the Council give a formal warning and table recommendations to the country in question. Once it issues its response, member states must decide unanimously launch sanctions and suspend voting rights. This is where the execution of Article 7 and its consequences may stall.

Eto, lepo, nisam pametan.
moguce da je napravljen neki amandman na clan 7


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--to alienate common apparati/mechanismi to create a perpetuum mobile called Motor Sehn-Sucht--
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:27 pm

A evo Guardian kaže:

In any case, Poland’s government does not need to be unduly worried about the triggering of article 7 for this is merely the first step in a long process that would eventually require the approval of all other EU members for actual sanctions to be imposed on Poland. Law and Justice’s equally authoritarian Hungarian ally, prime minister Viktor Orbán, has already vowed to veto any sanctions on Poland.
EU institutions are in a lose-lose situation here: doing nothing means Law and Justice continues dismantling democratic norms undisturbed, but reacting with the measures currently at Brussels’ disposal only serve to strengthen the party’s hand domestically and are thus unlikely to force it to change course.
Brussels clearly needs to rethink the rules by which the EU is governed. Those currently in place lack any realistic provisions for dealing with a member government that rubbishes the fundamental principles the union was built on … while continuing to take its cash, of course.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by bruno sulak on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:28 pm

umro im kardelj pa nema tumaca


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:30 pm



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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by bruno sulak on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:35 pm

mislim mogu oni jos da prezive ali ovo su sve ozbiljne krize. na primer danas ako katalonski referendum uspe - haos. ako pukne - spremite se za autoritatrniju spaniju.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.

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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by MNE on Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:01 pm

Blind Lime Pie wrote:Pravila EU su pisana u idealističkom duhu očekivanja da u zajednici nikada neće doći do problema ovakve vrste. Zato je sistem toliko nefleksibilan da svaki spor može da dovede, lančanom reakcijom, do raspada EU.

i zato će ako ta pravila ne reformišu i to iz korijena završiti kao SSSR
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:21 am

Lili Bayer @liliebayer
Today the ruling Fidesz party’s main daily paper ran an article explicitly referring to a Jewish global network giving Jews “positive discrimination” & “hurting the majority’s interests”, arguing that Soros is now creating a “more violent” one where “money is God”. #Hungary


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by bruno sulak on Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:28 am

bibijevi drugari.


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The law provides us structure to guide us through paralyzing and trying times. But it requires us a vision to its procedures and higher purposes. Before we assume our respective roles in this enduring drama just let me say that when these frail shadows we inhabit now have quit the stage we'll meet and raise a glass again together in Valhalla.
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by Gargantua on Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:13 am

"Istorijski zadatak Evrope, inače ćemo Božić slaviti..."


Budimpešta -- Pred Evropu je ove godine stavljen istorijski zadatak, a to je odbrana hrišćanske kulture, izjavio je mađarski premijer Viktor Orban.

"Mi Evropljani - priznali to ili ne, svesni toga ili ne - živimo u kulturi izgrađenoj na Hristovom učenju", rekao je on u intervjuu za "Mađar idok".

Mađari, kako je dodao, imaju svako pravo da sebe smatraju hrišćanskom nacijom.

"Činjenica da smo hrišćani i naša živa vera sačuvala nas je u središtu Evrope više od hiljadu godina", rekao je Orban.


Mnogi ljudi pokušavaju da nas kritikuju kad čuju da ljudi koji se predstavljaju kao hrišćani ne dopuštaju ljudima iz drugih delova sveta da emigriraju u Evropu, naveo je on.

Međutim, kako je dodao, hrišćanska zapovest "voli bližnjeg svog kao sebe" takođe znači da treba "sačuvati sve što smo i ko smo".

Prema njegovim rečima, hrišćanska kultura definiše svakodnevne vrednosti Evropljana, način na koji gledaju na pravdu i nepravdu, odnos između muškarca i žene, porodicu, uspeh, rad i čast.

Bez obzira na to da li idemo u crkvu ili ne, "ne želimo da moramo da slavimo Božić iza spuštenih zavesa da ne bismo uvredili nečija osećanja", rekao je Orban.

"Ne želimo da naši Božićni vašari budu preimenovani, a svakako ne želimo ni da ih organizujemo iza betonskih barijera. Ne želimo da lišimo našu decu radosti Svetog Nikole i tradicije poklanjanja", naglasio je on.

Orban je upozorio da je takav način života i pogleda na svet ugrožen, prenosi MTI.

"Evropski imuni sistem se namerno slabi. Oni žele da budemo ono što nismo. Oni žele da uzmu naš način života i zamene ga nečinom što nije naš način života", rekao je on.

"Pred evropske zemlje stavljen je istorijski zadatak u 2017. godini. Slobodne nacije Evrope, nacionalne vlade koje su izabrali njihovi slobodni građani imaju nov zadatak: moraju da brane hrišćansku kulturu", rekao je on.

Orban je rekao da će njegova vlada dok god bude bila na vlasti raditi na tome da očuva Mađarsku hrišćanskom i mađarskom, kao i Evropu evropskom.


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It's a sin that somehow
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And casting it's shroud
Over all we have known
...
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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by William Murderface on Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:18 am

Kazem, samo tenkovi.


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Re: EU - what's next?

Post by beatakeshi on Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:29 am

Proterati u prapostojbinu, zarad čistote Evropejstva.

Re: EU - what's next?

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