Блиски исток

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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Zuper on Tue May 01, 2018 4:03 pm

Gargamel wrote:
Zuper wrote:Gde su to Iranci pokazali takvu agresivnost?
ja nenapisao "agresivnost". pizdarije.

Avganistan - podrška Talibana
Gaza - podrška anti-Hamas islamističkim grupama u Gazi
Jemen - podrška Hutima
Irak - podrška Malikijevoj anti-sunitskoj politici
Sirija - podrška pretvaranju sunitske sirotinje u kurbane

Podrska Talibana nakon sto su ti Talibani postali prihvatljivi zapadu na tajnim pregovorima u Kataru? U isto vreme desavaju se masovni masakri sita sirom Avganistana o cemu postena zapadna javnost slabo sta kaze...
U Jemenu su Huti isli zajedno sa Salehovim, to sto je kasnije doslo do raskola je druga prica. I tu su se boritili protiv Al kaide...
U Iraku podrzavaju sitske frakcije i bez njih ID bi pregazio veci deo Iraka. Zapad ih je molio da udju.
Slicno vazi za Siriju.

Gaza i Hamas je posebna prica...
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargamel on Tue May 01, 2018 4:07 pm

Ointagru Unartan wrote:Umesto da mirno posmatraju kako im se na granici razvija ogranak Islamske drzave, koju finansiraju privatni fondovi iz Saudijske Arabije, oni podrzavaju neprijatelje IS. Bas su agresivni.
podrška talibanima je išla i pre pojave IS-a.
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by паће on Tue May 01, 2018 4:14 pm

Anduril wrote:Mnoge jevrejske zajednice su se odrzale vise od milenijuma u muslimanskom okruzenju i to mnogo duze od mnogih evrpskih jevrejskih zajednica. Prema tome, problem je poceo vise sa nacinom nastajanja drzave Izrael, dok se danas antisemitizam i anti-Izrael stav sistematski mesaju.

Систематски је права реч. Само зуцнеш нешто на рачун израелске политике, макар само пренесеш пасус из Џерузалем Поста, одмах долазе дежурни да те прогласе за антисемиту.

Та врста политичке коректуре је добрим делом и довела до те опште курцобоље по питању Израела - јер ако морамо строго да пазимо шта ћемо рећи, нећемо ни да слушамо.


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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargamel on Tue May 01, 2018 4:18 pm

Zuper wrote:U Iraku podrzavaju sitske frakcije i bez njih ID bi pregazio veci deo Iraka. Zapad ih je molio da udju. Slicno vazi za Siriju.
kvaka je u tome da istorija iranskih aktivnosti u Iraku i Siriji ne počinje pojavom IS-a. https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/in-their-own-words-sunnis-on-their-treatment-in-malikis-iraq/
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargamel on Tue May 01, 2018 4:25 pm

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/obamas-disastrous-iraq-policy-an-autopsy/373225/
On December 12, 2011, just days before the final U.S. troops departed Iraq, Maliki visited the White House. According to Nasr, he told Obama that Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, an Iraqiya leader and the highest-ranking Sunni in his government, supported terrorism. Maliki, argues Nasr, was testing Obama, probing to see how the U.S. would react if he began cleansing his government of Sunnis. Obama replied that it was a domestic Iraqi affair. After the meeting, Nasr claims, Maliki told aides, “See! The Americans don’t care.”
...
“Over the next 18 months,” writes Pollack, “many Sunni leaders were arrested or driven from politics, including some of the most non-sectarian, non-violent, practical and technocratic.” Enraged by Maliki’s behavior, and emboldened by the prospect of a Sunni takeover in neighboring Syria, Iraqi Sunnis began reconnecting with their old jihadist allies. Yet, in public at least, the Obama administration still acted as if all was well.
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargamel on Tue May 01, 2018 8:32 pm

Gargamel wrote:Matis je bio glas razuma i u Obaminoj administraciji, kada se zalagao za oštriji stav kontra Iranaca. budalani ga ni tada nisu slušali.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/01/18/the-obama-administrations-inexplicable-mishandling-of-marine-gen-james-mattis-2/
Word on the national security street is that General James Mattis is being given the bum’s rush out of his job as commander of Central Command, and is being told to vacate his office several months earlier than planned.

Why the hurry? Pentagon insiders say that he rubbed civilian officials the wrong way — not because he went all “mad dog,” which is his public image, and the view at the White House, but rather because he pushed the civilians so hard on considering the second- and third-order consequences of military action against Iran. Some of those questions apparently were uncomfortable. Like, what do you do with Iran once the nuclear issue is resolved and it remains a foe? What do you do if Iran then develops conventional capabilities that could make it hazardous for U.S. Navy ships to operate in the Persian Gulf? He kept saying, “And then what?”
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Tue May 01, 2018 9:08 pm

Ovde je pitanje zašto je vašingtonska dvorska politika životno relevantna za ljude na drugom kontinentu, a ne Obamina politika povlačenja iz Iraka, odsečena od konteksta.
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargamel on Tue May 01, 2018 9:29 pm

Gargantua wrote:Ovde je pitanje zašto je vašingtonska dvorska politika životno relevantna za ljude na drugom kontinentu, a ne Obamina politika povlačenja iz Iraka, odsečena od konteksta.
šta su hteli & šta započeli & kako zahebali, dvorska politika je bitna stavka.

primer: u februaru 2009-e, kandidat DoS-a za ambasadora u Iraku je bio Entoni Zini, penzionisani general i ex-šef CENTCOM-a. što će reći, čovek sa iskustvom i dobar poznavalac regiona. na sastanku sa Hilari, Zini je prihvatio nameštenje i Hilari je naredila da se pripremi papirologija. ličnom intervencijom Denisa Mekdane, Zini je otpao iz konkurencije. za ambasadora je postavljen Kris Hil, karijerni diplomata koji nije znao arapski i bez ikakvog iskustva u regionu.
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Wed May 02, 2018 5:23 pm

Hamenei, zašto si srušio WTC? Sad plati odštetu.


Court orders Iran to pay billions to 9/11 victims and families
By Max Greenwood - 05/01/18 08:00 PM EDT


A federal judge on Tuesday ordered Iran to pay billions of dollars in damages to the families of victims of the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks.

In a default — and largely symbolic — judgement, U.S. District Judge George Daniels ordered the Islamic Republic and various entities to pay $12.5 million per spouse, $8.5 million per parent, $8.5 million per child and $4.25 million per sibling.

The ruling faults Iran, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran for the deaths of the more than 1,000 whose families joined the lawsuit.


The lawsuit was first filed in 2004. But it wasn't allowed to proceed until 2016, after Congress passed a measure permitting the families of 9/11 victims to sue state actors for the terror attacks.

That law, the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, was initially vetoed by then-President Barack Obama, who argued that it could set a precedent that would open the U.S. up to similar lawsuits. Congress swiftly overrode that veto.

The ruling against Iran is part of a broader case seeking to hold Saudi Arabia responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks. Last month, Daniels rejected a bid by Riyadh to have that lawsuit tossed out.


Despite the ruling, it is almost certain that Iran will not pay the damages. The Islamic Republic never responded to the lawsuit, and there is no feasible way to force Tehran to pay.

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/385769-court-orders-iran-to-pay-billions-to-9-11-victims-and-families

Prošli put su navatali Sadama da je i on nekako kriv za to, što menjati priču koja radi poso? Videćemo kako će izmenadžetisati Saude.

Mada kapiram krovnu logiku - ako te označimo sponzorom terorizma, onda preuzimaš deo krivice/odgovornosti za svaki teroristički čin, jer teror je teror i sve je to isto
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by William Murderface on Wed May 02, 2018 5:37 pm

Ovo je van pameti.


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Re: Блиски исток

Post by паће on Wed May 02, 2018 6:01 pm

Јел' негде имају и пресуду да треба ишибати море?


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mathematics, the only done science

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Re: Блиски исток

Post by MNE on Wed May 02, 2018 6:57 pm

mene zanima zašto supružnik vrijedi više od djeteta?! računaju li po kilaži?
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargamel on Thu May 03, 2018 12:10 am

Gargantua wrote:In a default — and largely symbolic — judgement, U.S. District Judge George Daniels ordered the Islamic Republic and various entities to pay $12.5 million per spouse, $8.5 million per parent, $8.5 million per child and $4.25 million per sibling.
Default judgment is a binding judgment in favor of either party based on some failure to take action by the other party. Most often, it is a judgment in favor of a plaintiff when the defendant has not responded to a summons or has failed to appear before a court of law. The failure to take action is the default. The default judgment is the relief requested in the party's original petition.

Default can be compared to a forfeit victory in sports. In a civil trial involving damages, a default judgment will enter the amount of damages pleaded in the original complaint.
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Sat May 05, 2018 11:06 pm

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/trump-decision-on-iran-deal-vital-for-middle-east-a-1206293-amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Mon May 07, 2018 11:57 am






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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Zuper on Mon May 07, 2018 9:32 pm

Pametno,


Trump "Committed To Regime Change" In Iran: Giuliani


Speaking to reporters after a Saturday keynote to the Iran Freedom Convention for Democracy and Human Rights in Washington, Giuliani said "We got a president who is tough, who does not listen to the people who are naysayers, and a president who is as committed to regime change as we are."
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by паће on Mon May 07, 2018 9:46 pm

Падеминаум, могли би то да одвежбају прво на два-три лакша случаја, пошто је Иран тврд орах. Например Сауди, Израел, и неки њихов комшија по избору.


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а шта, пробија те врућина? кад купујеш климу, гледај да нема икс у називу.
mathematics, the only done science
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Mon May 07, 2018 11:38 pm

@realDonaldTrump
I will be announcing my decision on the Iran Deal tomorrow from the White House at 2:00pm.
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Tue May 08, 2018 7:36 pm

Trump plans to withdraw from Iran nuclear agreement, AP sources say

Conflicting signals are emerging from Washington over how far President Trump will go in his Tuesday afternoon announcement on the future of the Iran deal – with sources telling the Associated Press that Trump plans to withdraw from the landmark accord.

The New York Times also reported that Trump told French President Emmanuel Macron the U.S. would withdraw. But an administration official told Fox News that Trump did not make those comments to Macron.

If Trump ultimately does pull back, it’s also not clear which sanctions lifted under the deal Trump plans to immediately re-impose. He has several options.
A more limited move could leave Trump more room to potentially stay in the deal if other members agree to toughen it.

If he follows through on a sweeping imposition of sanctions, the move threatens to topple the Iran nuclear agreement as a whole – and with it, his predecessor’s signature foreign policy achievement.  

The president began briefing foreign and congressional leaders on his decision ahead of his 2 p.m. announcement.


And he started the day by warning former Secretary of State John Kerry not to meddle in the negotiations.

“John Kerry can’t get over the fact that he had his chance and blew it! Stay away from negotiations John, you are hurting your country!” Trump tweeted early Tuesday.

This was a reference to reports that Kerry was meeting with foreign officials in a bid to salvage the pact. Speaking at a summit Tuesday in Italy, Kerry did not back down, saying the Middle East is “safer with this agreement” and framing this juncture as a choice between peace and war.
...
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Tue May 08, 2018 8:20 pm

Ellie Geranmayeh‏Verified account @EllieGeranmayeh

1/Thread #Trump/#Irandeal/Europe:Trump expected to announce today US will no longer waive US 2ndry sanctions-a keystone of US commitments under nuclear deal.This is CLEAR violation with real consequences. Unnecessary crisis solely of the President’s making & dilemma for Europe.

2/US likely to press Europeans to continue transatlantic talks re Iran policy (incl pressure package on regional issues). In return:US may claim it has not “formally” withdrawn from #Irandeal & will go “easy” on enforcing sanctions to allow limited Iran trade.

3/#Iran will decide how it interprets “violation” by US & if it will assert non-waiver of sanction as significant non-performance of JCPOA. Iran will also assess what China,Russia & Europe may offer as incentives to keep Tehran on board with deal (can any major deals progress?)

4/ Euro official points out if #Trump reimposes US 2ndry sanctions,delays built into #Irandeal: a month reconciliation period+delays of 120-180 days before sanctions bite."All that could allow time for further negotiations": https://t.co/zvvEUiO5wu

5/ After almost a year of transatlantic talks on fate of #Irandeal-E3 failed to convince #Trump not to undermine accord.I’ve repeatedly warned that while E3 sincere & genuine in efforts to save deal-they’ve used wrong negotiating tactics to persuade Trump: https://t.co/vGLYfEhEES

6/European govs seem to believe best option is to buy yet more time for negotiations with US over #Irandeal. But US counterparts are uninterested in any “win-win”, “more for more” diplomacy on Iran. US president surrounded himself by Iran hawks-most want zero-sum outcomes.

7/So unless EU3 shift gears in negotiating strategy with #Trump admin, further transatlantic talks on #Irandeal under current conditions likely to backfire: Europe becomes inadvertently complicit in hollowing out #Irandeal & loses all relevance in Tehran: https://t.co/13rgsYjVio
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by Gargantua on Tue May 08, 2018 11:38 pm

The Jerusalem Post @Jerusalem_Post
BREAKING Mnuchin: Boeing, Airbus liscences to sell to Iran will be revoked https://t.co/BqhbAZQyoo https://t.co/lGERhhfjkf
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by паће on Tue May 08, 2018 11:40 pm

Јел' му онај Мењухин неки род? По пореклу презимена, требало би.


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а шта, пробија те врућина? кад купујеш климу, гледај да нема икс у називу.
mathematics, the only done science
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by bruno sulak on Tue May 08, 2018 11:47 pm

ne znam sta je ovde trampov endgame a da nije rat.


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Re: Блиски исток

Post by KinderLad on Tue May 08, 2018 11:57 pm

bruno sulak wrote:ne znam sta je ovde trampov endgame a da nije rat.

pa promena rezima. toliko je bilo jasno iz govora: vi ste super, velika civilizacija, imate svetlu buducnost, rezim vas drzi kao taoce.

promena rezima je endgame u iranu, u to niko ne treba da sumnja. na duzi rok, ali to je. bar ovih koji su sada ne samo kod trampa nego uopste cela ta, pre svega, republikanska (pro-Israeli) ekipa
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Re: Блиски исток

Post by disident on Wed May 09, 2018 12:22 am

KinderLad wrote:
bruno sulak wrote:ne znam sta je ovde trampov endgame a da nije rat.

pa promena rezima. toliko je bilo jasno iz govora: vi ste super, velika civilizacija, imate svetlu buducnost, rezim vas drzi kao taoce.

promena rezima je endgame u iranu, u to niko ne treba da sumnja. na duzi rok, ali to je. bar ovih koji su sada ne samo kod trampa nego uopste cela ta, pre svega, republikanska (pro-Israeli) ekipa
Tako izgleda, al opet tesko da to moze bez rata


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Re: Блиски исток

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