Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Ointagru Unartan on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:13 pm

Blind Lime Pie wrote:Njihov raketni i nuklearni program do sada nisu odlikovale spektakularne tehničke greške, uglavnom je sve išlo tačno kako treba. A to što pričaš bi dovelo do potencijalno najvećeg rata od WW2 i mogućnost za to teži nuli.

Prosle godine lansirali su 24 rakete, od cega je 10 eksplodiralo u letu i/ili palo odmah nakon lansiranja.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:17 pm

kačio sam tekst pre par strana, jedan amer špekuliše da je visok nivo neuspešnih testova zato što su brzo krenuli u kompleksnije testove, što sa svoje strane objašnjava brz dolazak do ove tačke u kojoj su. da su išli sporije procenat neuspešnih testova bi bio verovatno manji.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Ointagru Unartan on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Bilo je i spekulacija da ih to kao Ameri sabotiraju.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:48 am


Trampov rejting skočio zbog Severne Koreje
Tanjug | 13. 08. 2017 - 00:52h

Rejting američkog predsednika Donalda Trampa skočio je za šest procentnih poena od kako je on nagovestio mogućnost vojne akcije protiv Severne Koreje, pokazalo je najnovije istraživanje javnog mnjenja.

----------------
Zuper
Retorika odgovora Trampu kao i Kimu. Ne odgovara ljudima u Vasingtonu koji su protiv Trampa zato se i Mekejn buni iako nema veceg zagovornika ratnih akcija SAD.
Ali vreme za rat SAD nije doslo. SAD predsednici na godinu dana pred izbore u prvom mandatu pokrecu vojne operacije i tako cesto dobijaju izbore, tada se uglavnom napadaju neki cobani budale, a ne SK, sa our boys hu-ha koji stite demokratiju i ljudska prava:
Obama 2011 Liibija
Bus mladji 2003 Irak
Klinton 1995 Bosna i Krajina
Bus stariji 1991 Irak
Regan 1983 Grenada





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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by beatakeshi on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:26 pm

Znači da odem u kladionicu i tražim kvotu na napad na SK 2019?

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:41 pm

Ne bih se kladio na SK

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by MNE on Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:46 pm

vjerovatnije Venecuela
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Filipenko on Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:07 pm





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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by beatakeshi on Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:29 pm

Ništa bez Soroša.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Filipenko on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:52 pm

Ma da ali jebeš Soroša. Meni je fenomenalna cela konstrukcija o rasističkoj, nasilnoj Antifi, koja pravi probleme po kantrisajdu gde dobije po nosu od strane geroja-kauboja, pa se onda povlači u velike gradove gde ima veću podršku kao i gde može da računa da će je policija podržati, i onda malobrojni konzervativci koji žele da protestvuju u američkim gradovima moraju da se nose sa Antifom, provokatorima sa Hitlerovim majicama koje Antifa šalje na njihovo čelo da ih slika, kao i policijom koja zbog potpunog sopstvenog bezumlja staje na stranu Antife i levih provokatora...
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:17 pm

No Country wrote:Не знам, Инди, шта сам то слагао?...

Izvini na dugom vremenu do odgovora, a ni sad neće biti nekog odgovora. Samo ovo oko Sev. Koreje i tome ko je u stvari tu pretnja. (Pomenuo sam ono da Sev. Koreja nije forsirala eskalaciju, pa mi se čini da to nije baš najbolje primljeno... E, pa, originalni izvor za to je Chomsky, koga ovde prenosi Jimmy Dore. Mislim da je rekao nešto u stilu da je Sev. Koreja bila - više puta - za obustavljanje svog nuklearnog programa pod uslovom da USA prestane da u komšiluku izvodi "vojne vežbe"... E cvrc, neće da može.)

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:29 pm

Ic komplikejted, ali dobra priča


North Korea’s Missile Success Is Linked to Ukrainian Plant, Investigators Say
[size=9]By WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGERAUG. 14, 2017

[/size]




A photo released by North Korea’s state news agency in July purported to show a test of a Hwasong-14, thought to be capable of reaching the mainland United States. [size=9]CreditKorean Central News Agency, via Reuters

[/size]
North Korea’s success in testing an intercontinental ballistic missile that appears able to reach the United States was made possible by black-market purchases of powerful rocket engines probably from a Ukrainian factory with historical ties to Russia’s missile program, according to an expert analysis being published Monday and classified assessments by American intelligence agencies.

The studies may solve the mystery of how North Korea began succeeding so suddenly after a string of fiery missile failures, some of which may have been caused by American sabotage of its supply chains and cyberattacks on its launches. After those failures, the North changed designs and suppliers in the past two years, according to [url=http://www.iiss.org/en/iiss voices/blogsections/iiss-voices-2017-adeb/august-2b48/north-korea-icbm-success-3abb]a new study[/url] by Michael Elleman, a missile expert at the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

Such a degree of aid to North Korea from afar would be notable because President Trump has singled out only China as the North’s main source of economic and technological support. He has never blamed Ukraine or Russia, though his secretary of state, Rex W. Tillerson, made an oblique reference to both China and Russia as the nation’s “principal economic enablers” after the North’s most recent ICBM launch last month.

Analysts who studied photographs of the North’s leader, Kim Jong-un, inspecting the new rocket motors concluded that they derive from designs that once powered the Soviet Union’s missile fleet. The engines were so powerful that a single missile could hurl 10 thermonuclear warheads between continents.

Those engines were linked to only a few former Soviet sites. Government investigators and experts have focused their inquiries on a missile factory in Dnipro, Ukraine, on the edge of the territory where Russia is fighting a low-level war to break off part of Ukraine. During the Cold War, the factory made the deadliest missiles in the Soviet arsenal, including the giant SS-18. It remained one of Russia’s primary producers of missiles even after Ukraine gained independence.

But since Ukraine’s pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, was removed from power in 2014, the state-owned factory, known as Yuzhmash, has fallen on hard times. The Russians canceled upgrades of their nuclear fleet. The factory is underused, awash in unpaid bills and low morale. Experts believe it is the most likely source of the engines that in July powered the two ICBM tests, which were the first to suggest that North Korea has the range, if not necessarily the accuracy or warhead technology, to threaten American cities.

“It’s likely that these engines came from Ukraine — probably illicitly,” Mr. Elleman said in an interview. “The big question is how many they have and whether the Ukrainians are helping them now. I’m very worried.”

Bolstering his conclusion, he added, was a finding by United Nations investigators that North Korea tried six years ago to steal missile secrets from the Ukrainian complex. Two North Koreans were caught, and a U.N. report said the information they tried to steal was focused on advanced “missile systems, liquid-propellant engines, spacecraft and missile fuel supply systems.”


Investigators now believe that, amid the chaos of post-revolutionary Ukraine, Pyongyang tried again.
Mr. Elleman’s detailed analysis is public confirmation of what intelligence officials have been saying privately for some time: The new missiles are based on a technology so complex that it would have been impossible for the North Koreans to have switched gears so quickly themselves. They apparently fired up the new engine for the first time in September — meaning that it took only 10 months to go from that basic milestone to firing an ICBM, a short time unless they were able to buy designs, hardware and expertise on the black market.




The White House had no comment when asked about the intelligence assessments.

Last month, Yuzhmash denied reports that the factory complex was struggling for survival and selling its technologies abroad, in particular to China. Its website says the company does not, has not and will not participate in “the transfer of potentially dangerous technologies outside Ukraine.”

American investigators do not believe that denial, though they say there is no evidence that the government of President Petro O. Poroshenko, who recently visited the White House, had any knowledge or control over what was happening inside the complex.

On Monday, after this story was published, Oleksandr Turchynov, a top national security official in the government of Mr. Poroshenko, denied any Ukrainian involvement.

“This information is not based on any grounds, provocative by its content, and most likely provoked by Russian secret services to cover their own crimes,” Mr. Turchynov said. He said the Ukrainian government views North Korea as “totalitarian, dangerous and unpredictable, and supports all sanctions against this country.”

How the Russian-designed engines, called the RD-250, got to North Korea is still a mystery.

Mr. Elleman was unable to rule out the possibility that a large Russian missile enterprise, Energomash, which has strong ties to the Ukrainian complex, had a role in the transfer of the RD-250 engine technology to North Korea. He said leftover RD-250 engines might also be stored in Russian warehouses.


But the fact that the powerful engines did get to North Korea, despite a raft of United Nations sanctions, suggests a broad intelligence failure involving the many nations that monitor Pyongyang.

Since President Barack Obama ordered a step-up in sabotage against the North’s missile systems in 2014, American officials have closely monitored their success. They appeared to have won a major victory last fall, when Mr. Kim ordered an end to flight tests of the Musudan, an intermediate-range missile that was a focus of the American sabotage effort.

But no sooner had Mr. Kim ordered a stand-down of that system than the North rolled out engines of a different design. And those tests were more successful.

American officials will not say when they caught on to the North’s change of direction. But there is considerable evidence they came to it late.


North Korean soldiers massed in Kim Il-sung Square in Pyongyang in July after the test launch of their country’s first intercontinental ballistic missile. CreditJon Chol Jin/Associated Press

L
eon Panetta, the former C.I.A. director, said on CBS’ “Face the Nation” on Sunday that the North Korean drive to get workable ICBMs that could be integrated with nuclear weapons moved more quickly than the intelligence community had expected.“The rapid nature of how they’ve been able to come to that capability is something, frankly, that has surprised both the United States and the world,” he said.

It is unclear who is responsible for selling the rockets and the design knowledge, and intelligence officials have differing theories about the details. But Mr. Elleman makes a strong circumstantial case that would implicate the deteriorating factory complex and its underemployed engineers.

“I feel for those guys,” said Mr. Elleman, who visited the factory repeatedly a decade ago while working on federal projects to curb weapon threats. “They don’t want to do bad things.”

Dnipro has been called the world’s fastest-shrinking city. The sprawling factory, southeast of Kiev and once a dynamo of the Cold War, is having a hard time finding customers.

American intelligence officials note that North Korea has exploited the black market in missile technology for decades, and built an infrastructure of universities, design centers and factories of its own.
It has also recruited help: In 1992, officials at a Moscow airport stopped a team of missile experts from traveling to Pyongyang.

That was only a temporary setback for North Korea. It obtained the design for the R-27, a compact missile made for Soviet submarines, created by the Makeyev Design Bureau, an industrial complex in the Ural Mountains that employed the rogue experts apprehended at the Moscow airport.

But the R-27 was complicated, and the design was difficult for the North to copy and fly successfully.



President Petro O. Poroshenko of Ukraine visiting the Yuzhmash plant in Dnipro in 2014.CreditPool photo by Mykhailo Markiv

Eventually, the North turned to an alternative font of engine secrets — the Yuzhmash plant in Ukraine, as well as its design bureau, Yuzhnoye. The team’s engines were potentially easier to copy because they were designed not for cramped submarines but roomier land-based missiles. That simplified the engineering.
Economically, the plant and design bureau faced new headwinds after Russia in early 2014 invaded and annexed Crimea, a part of Ukraine. Relations between the two nations turned icy, and Moscow withdrew plans to have Yuzhmash make new versions of the SS-18 missile.

In July 2014, a report for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace warned that such economic upset could put Ukrainian missile and atomic experts “out of work and could expose their crucial know-how to rogue regimes and proliferators.”

The first clues that a Ukrainian engine had fallen into North Korean hands came in September when Mr. Kim supervised a ground test of a new rocket engine that analysts called the biggest and most powerful to date.

Norbert Brügge, a German analyst, reported that photos of the engine firing revealed strong similarities between it and the RD-250, a Yuzhmash model.



North Korea releases a propaganda video of a missile inspection featuring Kim Jong-un. The video gives a glimpse of the weapon’s engines.

Norbert Brügge maps the missile’s base to highlight the shapes and sizes of the main engine and its four steering engines.


The diagram is then used as an overlay atop the missile photo to determine main component sizes.
The inferred size of the main engine matches that of a Ukrainian rocket engine suspected of being sold illegally to North Korea.

Alarms rang louder after a second ground firing of the North’s new engine, in March, and its powering of the flight in May of a new intermediate-range missile, the Hwasong-12. It broke the North’s record for missile distance. Its high trajectory, if leveled out, translated into about 2,800 miles, or far enough to fly beyond the American military base at Guam.

On June 1, Mr. Elleman struck an apprehensive note. He argued that the potent engine clearly hailed from “a different manufacturer than all the other engines that we’ve seen.”

Mr. Elleman said the North’s diversification into a new line of missile engines was important because it undermined the West’s assumptions about the nation’s missile prowess: “We could be in for surprises.”

That is exactly what happened. The first of the North’s two tests in July of a new missile, the Hwasong-14, went a distance sufficient to threaten Alaska, surprising the intelligence community. The second went far enough to reach the West Coast, and perhaps Denver or Chicago.

Last week, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists featured a detailed analysis of the new engine, also concluding that it was derived from the RD-250. The finding, the analysts said, “raises new and potentially ominous questions.”

The emerging clues suggest not only new threats from North Korea, analysts say, but new dangers of global missile proliferation because the Ukrainian factory remains financially beleaguered. It now makes trolley buses and tractors, while seeking new rocket contracts to help regain some of its past glory.
janukovič hapsio severnokorejske špijune, kod poroša su završili sve što treba 

well done, fellas, well done
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Filipenko on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:09 am

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by William Murderface on Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:29 am

Terali zeca, isterali mečku.

Ovo više nije moguće kontrolisati, gde god da zakrpe, izbije negde drugde i naprave samo još veće sranje.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:07 am

But since Ukraine’s pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych, was removed from power in 2014...
Iš'o čovek tako ulicom, gled'o svoja posla, i iz čista mira mu se desilo da je bio removed from power.

PS. Williame, to nije bug, to je feature - zvuči zaveretičarski, ali sve sam više uveren. Što ono kažu, just follow the money.

Spoiler:




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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:36 am

Indy wrote:
No Country wrote:Не знам, Инди, шта сам то слагао?...

Izvini na dugom vremenu do odgovora, a ni sad neće biti nekog odgovora. Samo ovo oko Sev. Koreje i tome ko je u stvari tu pretnja. (Pomenuo sam ono da Sev. Koreja nije forsirala eskalaciju, pa mi se čini da to nije baš najbolje primljeno... E, pa, originalni izvor za to je Chomsky, koga ovde prenosi Jimmy Dore. Mislim da je rekao nešto u stilu da je Sev. Koreja bila - više puta - za obustavljanje svog nuklearnog programa pod uslovom da USA prestane da u komšiluku izvodi "vojne vežbe"... E cvrc, neće da može.)

Све је у хебеном контексту, драги мој. Ноаму је Чомском прилично свеједно каква ће права и слободе уживати грађани Сев. Кореје, Косова или Србије, њему је пре свега битно стање демократије у Јуесофеј. И тако и треба да буде. Да сам Хрват, свакако не бих писао о Олуји оно што сам писао. Да одем на хрватски портал - не бих писао као што пишем на српском (Чомски нема ову врсту обзира, што је помало арогантно) .Тако да и ово горе и ово доле треба разумети само на један начин: Чомски критикује Америку. Разматрање и вредновање реченог ван америчког контекста напросто није валидно.



Како изаћи из овог лавиринта контекста, где антифашизам са моје стране тарабе јако годи уху најгорег нацоша од прекопута...? Па тако што ћемо да успоставимо некакву објективну хијерархију вредности: Милошевић је нпр. био 100 пута гори злотвор од Била Клинтона, и стављање њих двојице у исту реченицу није ништа друго до покушај демагогије. При томе је Србија из 90-тих у поређењу са Северном Корејом рај на земљи, држава мира, љубави и благостања.

Дакле да се не фолирамо. Америка преговара са позиције силе? Ју, та немојте касти! А баш би требало уважити искрене и конструктивне предлоге млађахног Џонг-уна.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:40 am

I, dobro, šta onda?


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:51 am

Па ништа, стави са једне стране амерички милитаризам (ма тури и две киле импријализма, see if I care), а са друге лудило династије Ким, па види је ли у винклу...
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by паће on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:02 am

Да не би претегла три зрна кима, Амери на свој тас стављају и довољан број својих лудака.


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I did it for your sake. Now give it to me. That sake of yours.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:04 am

Nisu oni nikakvi ludaci. Diktatori jesu, brutalni vrlo verovatno, ali imaš pogrešan utisak (verovatno kroz medije) da se radi o nekakvim manijacima.

https://theconversation.com/north-korea-knows-it-cant-afford-to-go-to-war-82335

The north is too often misunderstood as an unpredictable rogue state led by a dynasty of mad dictators. This is an inaccurate analysis, and perpetuating it is irresponsible. As has been expertly documented by North Korea analysts such as Narushige Michishita, Pyongyang’s rulers are nothing if not consistent and strategic in their approach to the rest of the world.

Ra Mason
Lecturer in International Relations and Japanese Foreign Policy, University of East Anglia


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:56 am

Think I'm done for a while.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:59 am

Hm, samo razgovaramo.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by beatakeshi on Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:30 am

No Country wrote:Па ништа, стави са једне стране амерички милитаризам (ма тури и две киле импријализма, see if I care), а са друге лудило династије Ким, па види је ли у винклу...
Vrati se na PPP, možda su te pomilovali.

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:10 pm

Military action against Kim Jong Un's regime needs South Korean approval, Moon Jae-in says




  • Moon says any military action requires South Korea’s consent
  • Trump has warned North Korea of ‘fire and fury’ if threatened


South Korean President Moon Jae-in said that any military action against Kim Jong Un’s regime requires his nation’s approval, and vowed to prevent war at all costs.
“There will be no war repeated on the Korean Peninsula,” Moon said in a speech on Tuesday marking the anniversary of the end of Japanese occupation in the 1940s. Military action against North Korea should be decided by “ourselves and not by anyone else,” he said.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by паће on Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:12 pm

Опа! Немојте нас више бранити?


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