Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:47 pm

Ma dobro, prete im zato sto ne zele da zemlja kao sto je SK ima sposobnost da gadja US, to je jasno.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by beatakeshi on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:50 pm

No Country wrote:Причао сам вам већ оном момку који је рођен и одрастао у логору, а онда је са шест година одрукао родитеље (јер су скривали некакву храну), па су онда пред њим стрељали и родитеље и старијег брата (чији је грех ваљда био што није друкно први). Ето, то је таква земља. Што се мене тиче, немам ништа против да се манијак скине с власти, било којим средствима.
Posle iraka bih bio malo suzdržaniji. Pogotovo - "bilo kojim sredstvima".
S druge strane nije Crveni krst i papa Franja, već vojnička kantina sa Orangutanom za šankom.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:52 pm

Kinder Lad wrote:Ma dobro, prete im zato sto ne zele da zemlja kao sto je SK ima sposobnost da gadja US, to je jasno.

Nije u stvari Sev. Koreja ta koja preti (ne da će se to primetiti u mejnstrim medijima.)

EDIT. I, naravno, ovo je zaokružavanje Kine (i indirektno Rusije).


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:01 pm

Indy wrote:
Kinder Lad wrote:Ma dobro, prete im zato sto ne zele da zemlja kao sto je SK ima sposobnost da gadja US, to je jasno.

Nije u stvari Sev. Koreja ta koja preti (ne da će se to primetiti u mejnstrim medijima.)

EDIT. I, naravno, ovo je zaokružavanje Kine (i indirektno Rusije).

Daj bre  

Sev. Koreja se nekoliko puta obavezala da ce prestati s tim. U tome su ucestvovali i Kina i Rusija I - nista.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:02 pm

beatakeshi wrote:
No Country wrote:Причао сам вам већ оном момку који је рођен и одрастао у логору, а онда је са шест година одрукао родитеље (јер су скривали некакву храну), па су онда пред њим стрељали и родитеље и старијег брата (чији је грех ваљда био што није друкно први). Ето, то је таква земља. Што се мене тиче, немам ништа против да се манијак скине с власти, било којим средствима.
Posle iraka bih bio malo suzdržaniji. Pogotovo - "bilo kojim sredstvima".
S druge strane nije Crveni krst i papa Franja, već vojnička kantina sa Orangutanom za šankom.

E to nam treba, da papa ima H-bombu


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by паће on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:06 pm

Kinder Lad wrote:Ma dobro, prete im zato sto ne zele da zemlja kao sto je SK ima sposobnost da gadja US, to je jasno.

А цео остатак света нема ама никакав проблем што САД може да гађа све њих.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:07 pm

Kinder Lad wrote:

Daj bre  

Sev. Koreja se nekoliko puta obavezala da ce prestati s tim. U tome su ecestvovali i Kina i Rusija I - nista.

Nije to tačno. To je žvaka mejnstrim medija.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:11 pm

паће wrote:
Kinder Lad wrote:Ma dobro, prete im zato sto ne zele da zemlja kao sto je SK ima sposobnost da gadja US, to je jasno.

А цео остатак света нема ама никакав проблем што САД може да гађа све њих.

Nemam pojma, pitaj ostatak sveta


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:17 pm

beatakeshi wrote:
No Country wrote:Причао сам вам већ оном момку који је рођен и одрастао у логору, а онда је са шест година одрукао родитеље (јер су скривали некакву храну), па су онда пред њим стрељали и родитеље и старијег брата (чији је грех ваљда био што није друкно први). Ето, то је таква земља. Што се мене тиче, немам ништа против да се манијак скине с власти, било којим средствима.
Posle iraka bih bio malo suzdržaniji. Pogotovo - "bilo kojim sredstvima".
S druge strane nije Crveni krst i papa Franja, već vojnička kantina sa Orangutanom za šankom.
Ако ћемо о реал-политици (з-е-е-в), онда се ту сада вага да ли могу да их нападну, или им се већ затворио the такозвани window. И такође ми се јавља да ће Орангутан овог пута итекако сачекати евентуални консензус стручњака, без обзира шта год одбулазнио у међувремену. Он бре самог себе не схвата озбиљно, нити се после сећа шта је све налупетао.

Гледе ове твоје паралеле са Ираком, забавно је како су њих пожурили да нападну јербо имају WMD, а сада се итекако премишљају... пошто ови стварно имају WMD. 
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:18 pm

Kinder Lad wrote:

Nemam pojma, pitaj ostatak sveta

Mrzi me sad da jurim linkove (ovde je 2 ujutro), ali izvori koje ja pratim imaju jako drugačiju sliku od onoga što se prikazuje na mejnstrim medijima. Ne naravno da je Sev. Koreja tu neka žrtva, ali nije tačno da njom vlada manijak i sl (što je ovde pisao NC). Drugo, kakvi su da su, dosta su konzistentni.

USA predsednici su takođe dosta konzistentni u tome da kad god im je rejting loš, napadnu neku zemlju (ili eskaliraju, barem).

(Naravno, i pitanje Kine je ovde bitno...)

Dalje, tradicionalni USA rasizam kad su u pitanju istočnoazijski narodi je jednostavno (meni barem) nemoguće ignorisati ovde. Nemojte mi mahati strašilom u vidu Kima, i pričati kako su opravdana "sva sredstva"... za šta?

Što reče beatakeshi, kad je bio zli Sadam, dobili smo Irački rat, i milion civilnih žrtava. To je, jel'da, pomoglo Iračanima, a vidimo i svet je bezbedniji nego pre.

"Ma daj"te vi.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:23 pm

Indy wrote:
Kinder Lad wrote:

Daj bre  

Sev. Koreja se nekoliko puta obavezala da ce prestati s tim. U tome su ecestvovali i Kina i Rusija I - nista.

Nije to tačno. To je žvaka mejnstrim medija.

Cekaj, ako nista drugo nije tacno - ljudi su potpisali NPT i nisu ga postovali? 

Ok, ima i drugih, ali jbt, ovi bilduju svoje nuklearne sposobnosti i pri tom otvoreno govore da je cilj da mogu da dohvate US mainland. Sta ocekujemo, da US sedi i kaze - pa dobro ok, jbg, sta da se radi? U kom svemiru se to desava.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:25 pm

Не знам, Инди, шта сам то слагао? Слуш`о сам момка, на радију - сад једино ако лажу и он и ЦБЦ... прича је довољно конзистентна са другим сведочењима о Северној Кореји, па и са оним чланком који си ти неки дан постовао. То је режим на нивоу Хитлера и Пол Пота, ко год да их обрише са лица земље осевапиће се.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:27 pm

Indy wrote:
Kinder Lad wrote:

Nemam pojma, pitaj ostatak sveta

Mrzi me sad da jurim linkove (ovde je 2 ujutro), ali izvori koje ja pratim imaju jako drugačiju sliku od onoga što se prikazuje na mejnstrim medijima. Ne naravno da je Sev. Koreja tu neka žrtva, ali nije tačno da njom vlada manijak i sl (što je ovde pisao NC). Drugo, kakvi su da su, dosta su konzistentni.

USA predsednici su takođe dosta konzistentni u tome da kad god im je rejting loš, napadnu neku zemlju (ili eskaliraju, barem).

(Naravno, i pitanje Kine je ovde bitno...)

Dalje, tradicionalni USA rasizam kad su u pitanju istočnoazijski narodi je jednostavno (meni barem) nemoguće ignorisati ovde. Nemojte mi mahati strašilom u vidu Kima, i pričati kako su opravdana "sva sredstva"... za šta?

Što reče beatakeshi, kad je bio zli Sadam, dobili smo Irački rat, i milion civilnih žrtava. To je, jel'da, pomoglo Iračanima, a vidimo i svet je bezbedniji nego pre.

"Ma daj"te vi.

Kosovo, Irak, Sirija, Libija, sve su to beznacajnosti u odnosu na ovo. Verovatno su budale sto su se time bavili, i to sa svog stanovista, imali su elegantnija resenja. Ali ovo jeste pitanje nacionalne bezbednosti (jedini od svih tih slucajeva uz, donekle, ali mnogo manje, Avganistan)


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:28 pm

No Country wrote:Не знам, Инди, шта сам то слагао? Слуш`о сам момка, на радију - сад једино ако лажу и он и ЦБЦ... прича је довољно конзистентна са другим сведочењима о Северној Кореји, па и са оним чланком који си ти неки дан постовао. То је режим на нивоу Хитлера и Пол Пота, ко год да их обрише са лица земље осевапиће се.

Jedino kad bi mogaoda obrise njega licno i ekipu, a ne uz to i jos ko zna koliko hiljada, desetina i ili stotina hiljada ljudi.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:30 pm

Па сад, технологија се знатно усавршила.

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:59 pm

WHITE HOUSE SAYS TRUMP WILL SEND KUSHNER, GREENBLATT TO THE MIDDLE EAST FOR PEACE TALKS: RTRS

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by MNE on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:05 pm

Kinder Lad wrote:


Kosovo, Irak, Sirija, Libija, sve su to beznacajnosti u odnosu na ovo. Verovatno su budale sto su se time bavili, i to sa svog stanovista, imali su elegantnija resenja. Ali ovo jeste pitanje nacionalne bezbednosti (jedini od svih tih slucajeva uz, donekle, ali mnogo manje, Avganistan)
e pa jbg, kao iz one priče o čobaninu što je 3 puta cimao lovce da ga je napao vuk pa četvrti put kad je stvarno napao ovi nisu došli

tako i amerima sad malo ko vjeruje da su u opasnosti iako sad stvarno jesu
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:11 pm

Deterring North Korea the wrong way

Donald Trump’s threats towards North Korea are likely to be counterproductive, warn Mark Fitzpatrick and Michael Elleman.

Date: 11 August 2017
By Mark Fitzpatrick, Executive Director, IISS-Americas, and Michael Elleman, Senior Fellow for Missile Defence


There is no need to remind; North Korea knows the United States is mighty. It knows this first-hand, from the bombing raids in the Korean War that flattened the country so thoroughly that the US Air Force ran out of targets. Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) state propaganda outlets constantly rail against American hostility, to the point of paranoia. There is no reason to think leader Kim Jong-un doubts America’s resolve to respond to attack.

So if President Donald Trump’s threats of ‘fire and fury’ are intended to reinforce deterrence, they serve no useful purpose. Rather, such statements are counter-productive, in at least three ways. Firstly, they reinforce the North Korean sense of paranoia and thereby heighten the potential for war. The gravest danger in this situation is that the DPRK will come to perceive itself to be under attack. If so, its natural response will be strike first, even launching nuclear-armed missiles in the fear that otherwise these assets will be pre-emptively destroyed and it would have no second-strike capability.

Secondly, the threats alarm US allies in the region in ways that undermine the alliance structure. South Korea and Japan are adamantly opposed to the US starting a preventive war in which they would bear the brunt of North Korean retaliation. From what we hear in Washington, diplomats from both countries have been plaintively asking what on earth Trump is up to. Perceptions of credibility rest not just on the means and will to act, but on the wisdom of action. Each time the president utters a threat that puts South Korean and Japanese lands and lives at risk, it weakens faith in the US partnership.

Thirdly, bombastic threats undermine the president’s credibility. The red line Trump drew on 2 January –that North Korean intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) development ‘won’t happen’ – was crossed twice last month with successful ICBM tests. The ‘fire and fury’ threat immediately provoked North Korea to claim plans to simultaneously test four missiles in the direction of Guam. President Barack Obama was pilloried for failing to enforce his redline against Syrian use of chemical weapons, but he at least succeeded in bringing about the surrender of the vast bulk of that country’s chemical-weapons arsenal. North Korea, by contrast, has only expanded its strategic capabilities in the face of Trump’s thunder.

North Korea’s response now could well escalate the war of words beyond the realm of rhetoric. A statement issued on 10 August by the Korean Central News Agency said four Hwasong-12 missiles will cross over Japan and ‘hit the waters 30 to 40 kilometers away from Guam’. This would be dangerously close for a test. There is a finite probability that one of the missiles will overshoot its target and strike land.

A missile’s accuracy is determined by many factors, including those associated with the navigation and guidance unit, about which little is known in the case of the Hwasong-12, which has failed in three of four test flights. While navigation and guidance errors will negatively impact accuracy, they are small relative to errors associated with the process of shutting down the missile’s engine. Errors in the timing of engine shut down, and variations in residual thrust after shutting off the flow of propellant, have the most impact. For a Hwasong-12 flying toward Guam, we would expect to see timing and residual-thrust variations resulting in an average miss distance of seven to 10 km. Larger errors are possible, such that the probability of accidently hitting Guam is just under one percent. This may not seem large, but given the consequences of an accidental strike, the risk of escalation is enormous.

If any of the launches were on an azimuth toward Guam, which would be ascertained by radar within about 100 seconds of launch, the US would need to activate missile defences to try to shoot them down, using Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) batteries in Guam and possibly SM-3 Block IA or IB batteries on Aegis ships. It would be the first time such systems had been used in an actual live-fire situation, and the probability of success, especially against multiple incoming missiles, is not known.

Recognising the possibility that they could be intercepted, North Korea would probably send missiles in an azimuth that would avoid Guam entirely, hitting the open seas. The US might still try to intercept them, if Trump decided he needed to do so to back up his warning. If the interception were to fail, however, it would undercut credibility of US defences. If the interception worked, as we would dearly hope, it would be the first direct kinetic clash between US and North Korean military forces since a US helicopter was shot down over North Korea in 1994.

What North Korea’s next move would then be is unpredictable, particularly if it believed the interception was a prelude to further military action. To avoid deadly misperception, the US needs a channel of communication with Pyongyang. A public shouting match is no help.

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:27 pm

Ajd i ovo, ratne igre by CNN



A military operation would consist of a swift and multi-dimensional attack, as the fight would be defined by the first minute of combat, according to Jerry Hendrix, a retired Navy captain and senior fellow at the Center for New American Security.

While Hendrix has not been briefed on the specifics of a possible preemptive strike option, he told CNN that the operation would likely include several strategies aimed to neutralize North Korea's defensive and counterstrike capabilities.

Countering North Korea's relatively formidable surface-to-air missile defense capabilities, stealth American F-22s, F-35s and B-2 bombers would likely lead a joint air campaign with the help of Japanese and South Korean F-15 or F-16 fighters, he said.

Unmanned aircraft could also be used to limit risk to pilots.

The US would likely move additional aircraft to the region in the event of an imminent strike, but also maintains two major air bases in South Korea -- Osan with F-16 fighters and A-10 "tank killers," and Kunsan with F-16s.

Heavy airpower can be called in from the Pacific island of Guam, through which the US rotates B-1, B-2 and B-52 bombers.

As US and allied aircraft take out priority targets from the sky, American warships would launch a barrage of Tomahawk missiles concentrated on North Korean missile sites, air defense systems and response corridors capable of launching a retaliatory nuclear weapon, Hendrix said.

The US Navy has 10 guided-missile cruisers and destroyers based in Japan. The ships are armed with Tomahawk missiles for offensive purposes and the Aegis missile defense system that could be used to intercept North Korean launches.

The US could use cyber attacks to disrupt Pyongyang's weapons programs -- though experts say that would only delay, rather than stop them.

Urgent efforts to take out priority targets like air defense systems, retaliatory missile launch sites and service facilities -- coupled with assumptions that the US-led offensive would be met with heavy resistance -- are likely to take a toll on the US' inventory of bombs and missiles, warned Hendrix.

"What is the plan to resupply?" he said.

The US would need to ensure it had enough bombs, missiles and electronic warfare planes to destroy or disable North Korea's air defenses before deploying its heavy bombers, likely B-1s stationed in Guam, needed to strike North Korea's fortified nuclear weapons sites, according to Carl Schuster, a former director of operations at the US Pacific Command's Joint Intelligence Center.

Within minutes of initiating the attack, US aircraft and artillery assets would also be forced to coordinate with allied forces to destroy the thousands of North Korean missile tubes pointed directly at the South Korean capital of Seoul.

And that would just be the beginning.

"The problem is not hitting North Korea, its what happens next," Joe Cirincione, president of the Ploughshare Fund, an organization working to stop nuclear proliferation, told CNN.

"You strike North Korea, they are going to strike back and they have a devastating conventional arsenal built up on the border that could lay waste to Seoul," he said. "Estimates are that hundreds of thousands of South Koreans would die in the first few hours of combat -- from artillery, from rockets, from short range missiles -- and if this war would escalate to the nuclear level, then you are looking at tens of millions of casualties and the destruction of the eleventh largest economy in the world."

"That's what you are going to roll the dice on," Cirincione added.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by beatakeshi on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:44 pm

Kako ono beše, Beograd se brani na Palama (u Kninu, Karlobagu ilikakovećbeše).
Cinično ću primetiti da bi ovaj rat imao jednu pozitivnu stranu: posle njega više ne bi bilo ratova.

et NC - "konsenzus stručnjaka" - jel tu spada i onaj što ga zovu Ludi (Besni?) Pas? Ili su iz nekog drugog plemena?
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:51 pm

Кога су беше из Слобине генералске екипе звали Џон Вејн?
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:53 pm

ne znam

ljubiša ristić (jul) je stalno nosio kaubojske čizme

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by MNE on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:06 pm

Gargantua wrote:
The US Navy has 10 guided-missile cruisers and destroyers based in Japan. The ships are armed with Tomahawk missiles for offensive purposes and the Aegis missile defense system that could be used to intercept North Korean launches.

te krstarice imaju možda po stotinak tomahavka svaka, sjevernokorejski položaji su uglavnom tako dobro utvrđeni da lansiraju svih 1000 ne bi im skinuli ni 1% kapaciteta

ali bi zato od Seula postao pepeo i dim

P.S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHAeYvTzNfQ
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:25 pm

No Country wrote:Кога су беше из Слобине генералске екипе звали Џон Вејн?
Стевана Мирковића, закречио сам. 

Анихау, надимци су помало прецењени.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by diktotar on Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:35 pm

uvedite neke nove skracenice, kad god pisete sk ja mislim south korea pa se pogubim


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