Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:46 pm

Zuper wrote:Kina je intervenisala u Koreji 1950 kada su poterali Amere juzno od Seula sa kineske granice za mesec dana, mislim vise od 1000 km rastojanje. Tesko mi je zamislivo da neuporedivo jaca Kina, koja je 1950 bila bosa i gladna izasla posle 20 godina Gradjanskgo rata i Japanske okupacije, dozvoli da SAD udaraju po SK.

Upravo zato. Al ok, nadam se da u to necemo morati da se uveravamo.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:05 pm

Zuper wrote:MERKEL SAYS SEES NO MILITARY SOLUTION TO CONFLICT W/ N. KOREA
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Naravno, nemacka ekomonija i korporacije imaju poslednjih par godina rast zbog povecanog izvoza/proizvodnje u Kinu.

kaže lavrov "rhetoric is going over the top"

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:54 pm

Retorika odgovora Trampu kao i Kimu. Ne odgovara ljudima u Vasingtonu koji su protiv Trampa zato se i Mekejn buni iako nema veceg zagovornika ratnih akcija SAD.
Ali vreme za rat SAD nije doslo. SAD predsednici na godinu dana pred izbore u prvom mandatu pokrecu vojne operacije i tako cesto dobijaju izbore, tada se uglavnom napadaju neki cobani budale, a ne SK, sa our boys hu-ha koji stite demokratiju i ljudska prava:
Obama 2011 Liibija
Bus mladji 2003 Irak
Klinton 1995 Bosna i Krajina
Bus stariji 1991 Irak
Regan 1983 Grenada

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:02 pm

Avganistan


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:04 pm

To nije to. To nema veze sa izborima 2004. Neocekivani dogadjaj, zato ih je toliko poremetio.

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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:12 pm

Lavrov: "There Is A Russian-Chinese Plan To Defuse Korea Crisis"
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm

Da vidimo sta je to


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:14 pm

Zuper wrote:Retorika odgovora Trampu kao i Kimu. Ne odgovara ljudima u Vasingtonu koji su protiv Trampa zato se i Mekejn buni iako nema veceg zagovornika ratnih akcija SAD.
Ali vreme za rat SAD nije doslo. 

možda amerika neće rat, ali rat možda hoće nju.


nemoguća je strateška računica po kojoj je americi bolje da ratuje sa SK kasnije nego sada. razvoj korejskih IKBR će se nastaviti, kvalitativno i kvantitativno. rat u trenutku kada pjongjang može da lansira 100 IKBR na ciljeve na američkom kopnu je kraj... amerike.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:17 pm

Gargantua wrote:
Zuper wrote:Retorika odgovora Trampu kao i Kimu. Ne odgovara ljudima u Vasingtonu koji su protiv Trampa zato se i Mekejn buni iako nema veceg zagovornika ratnih akcija SAD.
Ali vreme za rat SAD nije doslo. 

možda amerika neće rat, ali rat možda hoće nju.


nemoguća je strateška računica po kojoj je americi bolje da ratuje sa SK kasnije nego sada. razvoj korejskih IKBR će se nastaviti, kvalitativno i kvantitativno. rat u trenutku kada pjongjang može da lansira 100 IKBR na ciljeve na američkom kopnu je kraj... amerike.

Da bre, to je najopasniji tj tragican momenat u celoj prici. Oni ne mogu da ih puste da to postignu pa sve i da to kosta rata. Jednostavno ne mogu.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:23 pm

“Russia together with China developed a plan which proposes ‘double freezing’: Kim Jong-un should freeze nuclear tests and stop launching any types of ballistic missiles, while US and South Korea should freeze large-scale drills which are used as a pretext for the North’s tests,” Lavrov said.
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Morace i ekonomija da bude ukljucena. Ako u SAD pameti to ce im dati jer tako moze da se oslabi Kim.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:32 pm

taj plan postoji mesec i kusur:


http://www.mid.ru/en/foreign_policy/news/-/asset_publisher/cKNonkJE02Bw/content/id/2807662


4 July 201715:58
Joint statement by the Russian and Chinese foreign ministries on the Korean Peninsula’s problems

1317-04-07-2017
 

The Russian Federation and the People’s Republic of China are the Korean Peninsula’s neighbours, therefore the development of the situation in the region concerns the national interests of both countries. Russia and China will closely coordinate their efforts in order to promote a complex solution to the Korean Peninsula’s problems, including that of the nuclear issue, for the sake of achieving a lasting peace and stability in Northeast Asia. In the spirit of strategic cooperation the foreign ministries of Russia and China (hereinafter referred to as Parties) state the following:

1. The Parties are seriously worried by the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK)’s statement of July 4, 2017 about a ballistic missile launch and consider this statement unacceptable and in disharmony with the relevant UN Security Council resolutions.

2. The Parties express serious concern about the development of the situation on the Korean Peninsula and around it. Mounting political and military tension in that region, fraught with the eruption of an armed conflict, are calling on the international community to adopt collective measures to settle the situation peacefully through dialogue and consultations. The Parties oppose any statements or moves that might escalate tension or aggravate the contradictions and urge all countries concerned to maintain calm, renounce provocative moves or bellicose rhetoric, demonstrate readiness for dialogue without preconditions and work actively together to defuse tension.

3.The Parties are putting forward a joint initiative, which is based on the Chinese-proposed ideas of “double freezing” (missile and nuclear activities by the DPRK and large-scale joint exercises by the United States and the Republic of Korea) and “parallel advancement” towards the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula and the creation of peace mechanisms on the peninsula, and the Russian-proposed stage-by-stage Korean settlement plan.

The Parties propose the following:

The DPRK, by way of a voluntary political decision, announces a moratorium on the testing of nuclear explosive devices and ballistic missile tests, and the United States and the Republic of Korea should, accordingly, refrain from large-scale joint exercises. Simultaneously, the conflicting parties begin talks and assert common principles of their relations, including the non-use of force, the renunciation of aggression, peaceful coexistence and determination to do all they can to denuclearise the Korean Peninsula with a view to promoting a complex resolution of all problems, including the nuclear issue. During the negotiating process, all parties concerned push forward, in a format suitable to them, the creation on the peninsula and in Northeast Asia of a peace and security mechanism and consequently normalise relations between the countries in question.

The Parties urge the international community to support the aforementioned initiative that paves the real way for resolving the Korean Peninsula’s problems.

4.The Parties are resolutely committed to the international non-proliferation regime and are firmly aimed at the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula and a comprehensive and full implementation of the relevant UN Security Council resolutions. The Parties intend, jointly with other parties concerned, to continue making efforts to facilitate the balanced removal of the existing concerns via dialogue and consultations.

The Parties confirm that the DPRK’s justified concerns should be respected. Other states must make relevant efforts to have talks resumed and jointly to create an atmosphere of peacefulness and mutual trust.

The Parties are calling on all parties involved to comply with the commitments formulated in the Joint Statement of September 19, 2005, and to re-launch, as soon as possible, the dialogue on the comprehensive resolution of problems on the Korean Peninsula. Any possibility of using military means to solve the problems of the Korean Peninsula should be ruled out.

5. The Parties express support for the North and the South of the Korean Peninsula to conduct dialogue and consultations, display benevolence towards each other, improve relations, cooperate in the matter of a peaceful settlement, and play a due role in defusing the situation on the Korean Peninsula and in resolving its problems in a proper manner.

6. The Parties confirm that they are paying sufficient attention to the maintenance of the international and regional balance and stability, and emphasise that allied relations between separate states should not inflict damage on the interests of third parties. They are against any military presence of extra-regional forces in Northeast Asia and its build-up under the pretext of counteracting the DPRK’s missile and nuclear programmes.

The Parties confirm that the deployment of THAAD antimissile systems in Northeast Asia is inflicting serious damage on strategic security interests of regional states, including Russia and China, and does nothing to help achieve the aims of the Korean Peninsula’s denuclearisation, nor to ensure peace and stability in the region.

Russia and China are against the deployment of the said systems, call on the relevant countries to immediately stop and cancel the deployment process, and have agreed to adopt the necessary measures to protect the two countries’ security interests and to ensure a strategic balance in the region.

This statement was signed on July 4, 2017, in Moscow.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:37 pm

white grey men


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:38 pm

Rekoh jos juce:
SENIOR U.S. DIPLOMAT HAS ENGAGED IN BACK-CHANNEL DIPLOMACY WITH NORTH KOREA FOR SEVERAL MONTHS; CONTACTS ONGOING -AP
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:47 pm

Svi kontakti i diplomatija se ne prekidaju ni u ratu. 

Ovaj Sinoruski plan je ok cni mi se, al ne verujem da ce Kim ikad prihvatiti denuklearizaciju. Bilo bi super kad bi.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by beatakeshi on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:05 pm

Ne razumem ovaj narativ u kome se insistira da je Kim ludak, a amerikanci se u stvari brane..
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:09 pm

beatakeshi wrote:Ne razumem ovaj narativ u kome se insistira da je Kim ludak, a amerikanci se u stvari brane..



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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Kinder Lad on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:16 pm

beatakeshi wrote:Ne razumem ovaj narativ u kome se insistira da je Kim ludak, a amerikanci se u stvari brane..

Kim je definitivno ludak, ne po tome sta radi Americi nego na sta mu lici zemlja. Logor.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by beatakeshi on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:29 pm

Možda, ali to ne opravdava bombardovanje te zemlje. Možda bi opravdan bio atentat na njega, ali to je već neka moderna shoalstika.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:30 pm

More, ludaci kao Kim su vrlo korisni nekima.


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:30 pm

Причао сам вам већ оном момку који је рођен и одрастао у логору, а онда је са шест година одрукао родитеље (јер су скривали некакву храну), па су онда пред њим стрељали и родитеље и старијег брата (чији је грех ваљда био што није друкно први). Ето, то је таква земља. Што се мене тиче, немам ништа против да се манијак скине с власти, било којим средствима.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:32 pm

a ima i ovo


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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Zuper on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:33 pm

Pocele su reforme u SK.
Pritisak vlasti je oslabio.
Postoje svedocenja. Pocela je neka vrsta drzavnog kapitalizma kao u Kini pre 30ak godina.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by No Country on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:36 pm

Какав црни капитализам, умиру од глади.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Gargantua on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:39 pm

režim u SK nije takav da su na njega primenljiv r2p norme UN (ratni zločini, genocid, etničko čišćenje, zločini protiv čovečnosti).

mislim da nije sporno da je sistem vanredno surov, prema našim civilizacijskim shvatanjima, samo ga to ne svrstava sa one strane međunarodnih konvencija, i stoga ne postoji obaveza za vojnom reakcijom tj nasilnom smenom vlasti.
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Re: Jedno sasvim novo i drugačije Presidency..

Post by Indy on Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:46 pm

I to bi bila obaveza UN, a ne USA.


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